Interesting BB nuggets from Rapoport

[Patsgofor4]

In 2022 the Rams didn’t have either a 1st or 2nd round pick. Their first pick came in the 3rd round, they took a guard. In 2023 the Rams did t have a 1st round pick. Their first pick came in the 2nd round, they took a guard. Clearly they don’t think taking a guard is a waste of draft capital.

Don’t confuse him with facts!

 

[Ivan]

Sure, keeping beating that false drum that the rest of the league viewed him as a 3rd and 4th round pick. there have been numerous reports dating back to the days after the draft that multiple other teams are interested in him in the 2nd round. These were not reporters who bend over backwards to protect Bill.

In fact, Tom Curran, who has not been at all shy about criticizing Bill’s personal decisions, said on his podcast that he recently talked to an player personnel executive from another team, and he quotes executive as saying “We really liked him. We were looking at him in the second round.”

It’s a shame that Strange had so many issues with his knee this year, because if he had been healthy, I think he would have solidified his status as a quality starter at left guard. He has already shown himself to be a very good NFL run blocker, but needs work as a pass protector. I think it will come out that he was more limited by the knee this year, even when he was playing, than we fans realized. Curran made reference to that earlier in the season. He still needs to keep getting stronger, particularly his lower body.

Does this mean that Strange was a good pick the late first? No. I agree with the consensus that they should have targeted a different position. Also, an OG needs to be an elite level player for his position, if he wants to justify being picked in that spot (see Mankins, Logan). Strange has the athleticism (including an elite first step), and the aggressiveness to be a top 10 guard but he’s got a long way to go before being placed in that category and he may never reach that level.

He was probably overdrafted by 10 to 15 picks, but to regurgitate that overused clip and use it as definitive evidence that he was wildly overdrafted and wasn’t going to be picked by any other team until the late third or even the fourth round is agenda-driven, not based in reality….par for the course here, so at least you’re in good company.

Agree with this. He shouldn’t have been a first round pick, but I understand the higher priority now being put on guards when so many teams are using smaller, quicker DT’s to get pressure up the middle on the QB.

 

[Rob0729]

What I don’t get from the Kraft cannot fire Belichick crowd is that they seem to be under the assumption that Belichick is here for the long term. Odds are good that Belichick is here for two more years to get Shula’s record. The only way I see him staying longer than that is if the Pats are a legitimate Super Bowl contender by then. I mean the Pats are in the discussion with the top 3-4 teams with a legitimate chance to win it.

With that in mind, this is the perfect time to move on. The Pats in rebuild mode. They may have the second pick in the draft and, after they cut JC Jackson and get back the LTBE bonus for playing time from Trent Brown, will have either the most or second most cap space in the league. Why rebuild the team for Belichick when he will be gone by the time the team will gone if and when this team is a contender again?

And I don’t buy this team is a QB and a few moves away from being a contender again. The argument that the Pats lost so many close games is proof of that. That was the argument before this season why the Chargers would be a contender this year because most of the games they lost in 2022 were by 1-4 points. How did that work out for them?

 

[Triumph]

It doesn't matter what decision was made, the point is that Kraft has involved himself in the QB position.

What a joke.

Kraft injected himself into team operations to keep his QB. Kraft is such a meddling and involved owner that he let BB use his DC as OC in 2022. This after Kraft allowed his HC/GM final say on letting Brady go. Do you even know what a meddling owner is?

Because the question is will Bob Kraft allow his new HC to do his job?

There is enough smoke to assume that Kraft was involved in the decisions around Mac. I wish I was as wired in as you with the inside information on all the above.

Smoke from too much primo weed over there.

No doubt Kraft and BB have a long list of things that only they are aware of. Things will only become clear next Monday.

More speculation and bong hits. No doubt.

 

[Rob0729]

I think the way Bill looked at he was waiting for Mac to show something worthy of investing in and it never did the kid just kept getting worse.

And I think from there it gets really hard to hide all your other problems without a functional Q.

Bill was excellent at that through the years but obviously an easier task when you have Brady. I believe if he has a QB he can get back to doing his thing.

If that was Belichick’s attitude, he should have been fired last year. Belichick’s job is to make this team a contender every year and win Super Bowls. Depriving his QB talent because he feels that the QB doesn’t deserve it is counter to that goal.

If you think you have a subpar QB, you have to surround him with even more talent to minimize his liabilities. You can deprive a Brady of talent because Brady to elevate lesser talent. You give a QB who you feel isn’t worthy of investing in talent no talent, you are going to have one of the worst offenses in the league and 4-5 wins for the season.

 

[Ivan]

What I don’t get from the Kraft cannot fire Belichick crowd is that they seem to be under the assumption that Belichick is here for the long term. Odds are good that Belichick is here for two more years to get Shula’s record. The only way I see him staying longer than that is if the Pats are a legitimate Super Bowl contender by then. I mean the Pats are in the discussion with the top 3-4 teams with a legitimate chance to win it.

With that in mind, this is the perfect time to move on. The Pats in rebuild mode. They may have the second pick in the draft and, after they cut JC Jackson and get back the LTBE bonus for playing time from Trent Brown, will have either the most or second most cap space in the league. Why rebuild the team for Belichick when he will be gone by the time the team will gone if and when this team is a contender again?

And I don’t buy this team is a QB and a few moves away from being a contender again. The argument that the Pats lost so many close games is proof of that. That was the argument before this season why the Chargers would be a contender this year because most of the games they lost in 2022 were by 1-4 points. How did that work out for them?

They can move on from Belichick if they want to, the problem is that there really isn’t a coach who can replace him. I think that pretty much everyone agrees that he shouldn’t be making the personnel moves any more, but when it comes to game day he’s still as good or better a HC than anyone else in the league, and while they may been thinking about MacDaniels or Mayo to replace him, I now think the Kraft’s have their heart set on Vrabel, and that can’t happen this season. So I think that if they can convince Belichick to hand over control of personnel to Groh and Wolf they will keep Belichick as coach, and wait for Vrabel to come free to move on. However, the likelihood that Belichick will turn over control over personnel is questionable, and really comes down to the question of whether at 71 he wants to go start over at another franchise, or just finish out coaching in New England. And then he has to deal with the fact that it’s unlikely that any new team is also going to give him the full control over football operations that he would be giving up here. Belichick is as calculating as it gets, and if it were me I think I would rather just finish my career here, and allow Groh and Wolf to run personnel while I coached the team, but what Belichick will do is anyone’s guess? I think having Groh and Wolf run football operations, with Belichick coaching until they can get Vrabel will be the Kraft’s first option, but I think if Belichick decides to move on they will then give Mayo a shot, and keep Groh and Wolf in place, although Wolf may get an offer he can’t turn down and move on.

 

[Rob0729]

They can move on from Belichick if they want to, the problem is that there really isn’t a coach who can replace him. I think that pretty much everyone agrees that he shouldn’t be making the personnel moves any more, but when it comes to game day he’s still as good or better a HC than anyone else in the league, and while they may been thinking about MacDaniels or Mayo to replace him, I now think the Kraft’s have their heart set on Vrabel, and that can’t happen this season. So I think that if they can convince Belichick to hand over control of personnel to Groh and Wolf they will keep Belichick as coach, and wait for Vrabel to come free to move on. However, the likelihood that Belichick will turn over control over personnel is questionable, and really comes down to the question of whether at 71 he wants to go start over at another franchise, or just finish out coaching in New England. And then he has to deal with the fact that it’s unlikely that any new team is also going to give him the full control over football operations that he would be giving up here. Belichick is as calculating as it gets, and if it were me I think I would rather just finish my career here, and allow Groh and Wolf to run personnel while I coached the team, but what Belichick will do is anyone’s guess? I think having Groh and Wolf run football operations, with Belichick coaching until they can get Vrabel will be the Kraft’s first option, but I think if Belichick decides to move on they will then give Mayo a shot, and keep Groh and Wolf in place, although Wolf may get an offer he can’t turn down and move on.

If there isn’t a coach to replace Belichick today, there won’t be one to replace him when he retires in two years.

And Vrabel’s job isn’t safe. The Titans aren’t much better than Pats. Reports are that Vrabel and Ran Carthon don’t get along. And with Carthon going into his second year, he will probably want to replace Vrabel with his own head coach.

 

[signbabybrady]

If that was Belichick’s attitude, he should have been fired last year. Belichick’s job is to make this team a contender every year and win Super Bowls. Depriving his QB talent because he feels that the QB doesn’t deserve it is counter to that goal.

If you think you have a subpar QB, you have to surround him with even more talent to minimize his liabilities. You can deprive a Brady of talent because Brady to elevate lesser talent. You give a QB who you feel isn’t worthy of investing in talent no talent, you are going to have one of the worst offenses in the league and 4-5 wins for the season.

Jesus you guys really have to spin everything into some fire BB bs.

Rather than looking at it as sabotage all I meant is building up your defense so you can hopefully win in other ways while he developed. He regressed.

 

[signbabybrady]

If there isn’t a coach to replace Belichick today, there won’t be one to replace him when he retires in two years.

One of the things that scares me right now is you might replacing HC, QB, and GM all in one off-season. That's a lot to get right all at once.

Ideally you keep Bill and he gets things better and you're only replacing him when he retires.

 

[PatsfanTN]

One of the things that scares me right now is you might replacing HC, QB, and GM all in one off-season. That's a lot to get right all at once.

Ideally you keep Bill and he gets things better and you're only replacing him when he retires.

i see it differently. New coach/ new qb….his guy new system. New GM fresh eyes on talent and moving in tandem with the new HC. Why would you want BB still around while you piecemeal things together, doesn’t make sense.

 

[203Pat]

10 didn’t regress, he was exposed. They covered his weaknesses and hid his flaws for 3/4s of a season. He’s been the same guy since day 1. We tricked everyone for 3/4s of a season and everything since has been the same with increasing amount of failure as who he is became more clear to defenses.

He was a QB with a subpar arm who was supposed to make up for it with timing and a high football IQ which early on is what he showed until the last quarter of his rookie season. His next year was up and down and most chalked that up to Bill's idiotic decision to make Patricia the OC. I never liked Mac from the get go but he has clearly regressed. He shies away from hits and makes inexplicably bad throws over and over again.

 

[signbabybrady]

i see it differently. New coach/ new qb….his guy new system. New GM fresh eyes on talent and moving in tandem with the new HC. Why would you want BB still around while you piecemeal things together, doesn’t make sense.

Who said anything about piecemealing? your current HC and GM BB stay and draft a top 5 QB.

The QB doesn't fall flat on his face like Mac and now your not firing BB and the team starts improving hopefully so much so Bill wins again but more realistically the team improves and when BB retires you're not replacing QB at the same time and maybe even promoting GM internally and only replacing Bill at that time.

Or you can hire all 3 this off-season and any one of the three failing could make the other 2 look like garbage too.

 

[Rob0729]

Jesus you guys really have to spin everything into some fire BB bs.

Rather than looking at it as sabotage all I meant is building up your defense so you can hopefully win in other ways while he developed. He regressed.

Not spinning at all. You said that Belichick was waiting to invest in putting talent around Mac until he proved he was worth it. That isn't how it is supposed to work.

First, he should have invested in Mac to help make him worthy of investments. That is what good teams do with young QBs. You don't give them a bunch of 3s and 4s as WRs. You don't rely on a seriously declining OT in his mid thirties to be your starting RT. You don't make your special teams coach your QBs coach in the QB's second year.

Second, as a GM, you are supposed to maximize strengths and try to minimize your weaknesses. If your QB is underperforming, you only expose that issue if you don't give him a top notch offensive line and at least one receiver that opposing defenses have to scheme for.

Third, Belichick for decades claimed that you need to focus on all three phases of the game. He dedicates relatively high draft picks and cap capital on special teams. Why would he just let the offense flounder and just focus on the defense and hope they will carry the team in an offensive focused league? It seems a recipe to have a ceiling of being a fringe playoff contender who will likely be one and done in the playoffs if they get in.

 

[Love The Drake]

If there isn’t a coach to replace Belichick today, there won’t be one to replace him when he retires in two years.

And Vrabel’s job isn’t safe. The Titans aren’t much better than Pats. Reports are that Vrabel and Ran Carthon don’t get along. And with Carthon going into his second year, he will probably want to replace Vrabel with his own head coach.

One report I read say Carthon already agreed to release him from his contract.
Vrabel, Adam Peter’s and one or both of Obrein and Mcdaniels would be a really solid foundation.
However I want a coordinator who will continue to develop insert Rookie QBs name here.
I’ve never wanted a Jets win more than this Sunday.

 

[Rob0729]

One of the things that scares me right now is you might replacing HC, QB, and GM all in one off-season. That's a lot to get right all at once.

Ideally you keep Bill and he gets things better and you're only replacing him when he retires.

Actually, if I was going to make a change, that is exactly how I would want to do it. We have seen far too many times that teams will bring in a GM who will butt heads with the existing head coach (that may be the reason Vrabel gets fired next week). And we have also seen far too many young QBs get ruined when there is a change in year two or three. Better for them to be in one system at least for 3-4 years.

I don't want to build a team for Belichick and his outdate philosophy only to have a new GM and head coach to come in and have a bunch of players who do not fit their philosophy. For example, Belichick loves big LBers who are slower than most LBs today. Odds are that whoever are at LB when a new head coach comes in will have to be replaced for smaller, faster LBs.

 

[Rob0729]

One report I read say Carthon already agreed to release him from his contract.
Vrabel, Adam Peter’s and one or both of Obrein and Mcdaniels would be a really solid foundation.
However I want a coordinator who will continue to develop insert Rookie QBs name here.
I’ve never wanted a Jets win more than this Sunday.

Yeah, I would be on board for Vrabel, Peters, O'Brien/McDaniels. Not my first choice by far, but I think they would at least move towards a more modern NFL team and still keep aspects of what worked under Belichick.

 

[upstater1]

Those numbers are meaningless.
2020 draft: First 3 picks are defense
2021 draft: Two of the first 3 are defense anf the offense is the bust Mack Jones
2022 draft: Two of the first 3 are offense includingoverdrafted Strange and bust Thornton
2023 draft: First there are all defense.
The majority of FAs being offense means they don’t draft well on offense and need free agents to fill out a 52 man roster

You're making my point for me.

I'm saying the resources have been spent, but they haven't panned out. That's the whole point.

I still say the trade down for Strange was a good one because of all the picks they picked up and the fact that no one around him in that draft class is doing anything.

But the numbers aren't meaningless at all. When you commit 2 #1s and a #2 to offense in the last 3 years, that's an investment, in addition to all the many later round picks.

 

[upstater1]

Actually, if I was going to make a change, that is exactly how I would want to do it. We have seen far too many times that teams will bring in a GM who will butt heads with the existing head coach (that may be the reason Vrabel gets fired next week). And we have also seen far too many young QBs get ruined when there is a change in year two or three. Better for them to be in one system at least for 3-4 years.

I don't want to build a team for Belichick and his outdate philosophy only to have a new GM and head coach to come in and have a bunch of players who do not fit their philosophy. For example, Belichick loves big LBers who are slower than most LBs today. Odds are that whoever are at LB when a new head coach comes in will have to be replaced for smaller, faster LBs.

This idea that QBs can be ruined is a curious idea in the sense that you would think some of them would be capable of coming back from it and performing. Just one guy, maybe. But the cases are incredibly rare. I can only think of Jim Plunkett.

This tells me we don't really know if people have been ruined or else they were just incapable to begin with.

Out of all the QBs who have come out and been shown incapable in one place, you'd think more than one could overcome that.

 

[Rob0729]

This idea that QBs can be ruined is a curious idea in the sense that you would think some of them would be capable of coming back from it and performing. Just one guy, maybe. But the cases are incredibly rare. I can only think of Jim Plunkett.

This tells me we don't really know if people have been ruined or else they were just incapable to begin with.

Out of all the QBs who have come out and been shown incapable in one place, you'd think more than one could overcome that.

Geno Smith is a case. He isn't playing this year like he did last year, but he is worlds better than he was with the Jets.

But the thing is when a player is ruined, they usually never recover. Mac Jones was ruined here. Not putting the blame solely or mostly on Belichick, but Jones by midseason was a far worse QB than he was even in September of this year. I tend to doubt he will ever be the same QB he was his rookie season. Tony Eason was another. He was promising early in his career and then fell apart.

But the fact is QBs develop bad habits when not properly coached. If you play golf or another sport where technique is important, you know that it is far harder to get rid of bad habits than it is learn proper technique from the beginning. And with changes in coaching staffs, bad habits can set in.

 

[PatsfanTN]

Who said anything about piecemealing? your current HC and GM BB stay and draft a top 5 QB.

The QB doesn't fall flat on his face like Mac and now your not firing BB and the team starts improving hopefully so much so Bill wins again but more realistically the team improves and when BB retires you're not replacing QB at the same time and maybe even promoting GM internally and only replacing Bill at that time.

Or you can hire all 3 this off-season and any one of the three failing could make the other 2 look like garbage too.

Why would I trust BB to draft and develop a rookie QB? His treatment of Mac and the very obvious willingness to get any real talent around him was a very poor decision. You really want a guy that may be here one more year to draft our future? what Have you seen that gives you hope that BB can improve the offense? (other than the fact it can’t get much worse).