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Josh McDaniels Handicapped This Patriots Team

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by maverick4, Jan 22, 2007.

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  1. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    McDaniels is a novice. He runs Corey Dillon outside, Maroney inside, and keeps Faulk on the bench against the Colts. How does that make any sense?

    With a 21-13 lead to start the offense in the 2nd half, McDaniels ran a total of 5 times the entire half. FIVE TIMES. It was also his fault for the '12 men in the huddle' penalty, as well as not generating a single first down late in the 4th quarter when it could have sealed the game. We lost 2nd half time of possession by a factor of 4:1. Finally, why put Heath Evans in the backfield on our final drive, instead of Faulk or Maroney? Idiocy.

    The 2006 Patriots had the best collective offense, defense, and special teams of any Belichick team. However, they were handicapped by an offensive coordinator who was in over his head against much more experienced and intelligent opposing coaches. With our talent, McDaniels handicapped this team to only 12 wins this year, and made many 'rookie' mistakes as an offensive coordinator.

    If I feel mad enough later, I may go back game-by-game and point out his many mistakes that occurred on an almost weekly basis.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2007
  2. Armen Da Pats Fan

    Armen Da Pats Fan 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Forget game-by-game. He did the same thing (give up the run too early) on November 5th vs. the Colts and we lost.

    The Colts were the better team last night, but Josh is a liability.
     
  3. Snarf

    Snarf Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    I agree.

    I'm particularly pissed off with the moronic way he used Maroney. Any idiot fan can see what Maroney's strengths are, and McDaniels entirely overlooked them.

    I hope McDaniels goes to Oakland, or somewhere else. His calls all season (except for a couple of games near the end of the season) were junk.

    Leave, McDaniels, leave.

    Go away.
     
  4. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yeah, and McDaniels was personally responsible for giving up 38 points. Everyone needs to stop putting the blame on the defense. It was ALL MCDANIELS!!!!! Peyton Manning was able to pick up 20 yards a pass because of McDaniels (I actually heard a caller say that on WEEI so I can't take credit for that).

    McDaniels didn't call a great game, but we scored 27 points on offense. That should be enough to win any game. It was the 38 points allowed on defense that handicapped this team.

    As for the 2006 Patriots having the most talent of any Belichick team, this team wasn't even close. The lack of depth at LB and safety was a key reason we lost the game last night. In the past we could have overcome that. Our WRs are not as good as they were in 2003 and 2004. Our LBs weren't as good as 2003 and 2004. Our secondary isn't as good as 2003. I think our o-line is no better than the o-line of 2004.
     
  5. Oswlek

    Oswlek In the Starting Line-Up

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    I don't disagree that the OC could have done better, but Evans was wide open on the final drive. Brady just didn't pay attention to him.

    NE tries very hard to be unpredictible and this leads to Dillon outside and Maroney inside. I'm sure that it wasn't every time and I am just as sure that if the reverse were true (Dillon in and Maroney out) all the time that Ds would stop it every time.

    I blame the players more than the coaches for this game. Brown didn't need to slam into his guy so hard on his OPI call. Hobbs could have gotten an easy pick if he would have turned his head. Caldwell dropped an easy swing pass that would have gone for 6+ yards.

    I realize that often time what looks like a player mistake is improper usage, but I don't think that that applies in this case.

    (I will admit that, now that you mention it, it is a little strange that Evans was on the field instead of Faulk, but he was open so {shrugs} )
     
  6. onegameatatime

    onegameatatime Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    While McDaniels may run things play to play, does anyone realkly think he is not carrying out a BB approach? Does anyone think that BB has been sitting around all season, thinking McDaniels is screwing up and not doing anything about it? It's easier to pick on the coordinator than on the genius.

    I think the running game was not very good all game. Most yards were on draws and a big chunk on a short yardage situation where Corey broke through the line. There was little yardage gained on traditional hand-offs.

    If I had one criticism of JM, it's that it seems that on a first down incomplete, the next play always seems to be a run.

    Bottom line is we were a 3rd and 4 in the first half and a couple of dropped passes away from a very possible blowout. This was a game where the D let us down -- fact is, without a healthy Rodney, it's a very average secondary against a well above average passing game.
     
  7. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    The 2006 Patriots had a top 10 offense, defense, and special teams unit, a first under Belichick. They were remarkably balanced.

    However, this game came down to coaching by the coordinators. We caught a bad break with the flu and with Colvin and Hawkins going down. We had to play Alexander, Banta-Cain, Mickens, and Baker on defense. Our defense was exhausted, and our offense is at fault for: 1. Not giving our defense a time to rest, and 2. Not generating a single first down that could have iced the game for us.

    In previous years our defensive depth was depleted (think about our Superbowls), but our offense did what was needed in order to pull out the win. This game is about coaching, and McDaniels is a mental midget against other coaches in the league.
     
  8. b72s

    b72s On the Game Day Roster

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    I had the following ???? in this game.

    1. Limted vertical attack if any downfield
    2. Always running on second and 10 up the middle, no play action
    3. No trick plays, aka 2nd & ten flea flicker

    They took no chances stayed conservative and hurt them especially

    3 and out in 3rd quarter, Defense on the field all day

    4th quarter settling for field goal with underneath pass to evans.

    OC does not seem to mix it up like Charlie did every once and a while.
     
  9. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    That doesn't make any sense at all. I think what you mean is the Pats scout themselves, pick up tendencies, and then design plays that fool defenses based on what they THINK will happen. This is what they used to do, however, this is not what they are doing now. McDaniels is doing unpredictable things simply for the sake of doing something unpredictable. If a defense keys on Dillon inside, then run a play-action with a fake Dillon run up the middle. Don't run Dillon outside, that is completely retarded.
     
  10. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Onegame, if you read more articles and books about Belichick, you'd realize just how much leeway he gives his coordinators. It stems from his own experience as a coordinator and how he lets them have more autonomy.

    All the coaches collectively sit down and talk about the general plan, yes, but Belichick lets his coordinators call the shots during the game. McDaniels is the one calling all the plays. I can almost guarantee you that Belichick let Weiss and now McDaniels mostly run the show.
     
  11. BradfordPatsFan

    BradfordPatsFan In the Starting Line-Up

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    You're right. He could not possibly have learned anything after his first full season as the OC. He will never improve. We should take him out back and burry him under the practice field. :rolleyes:
     
  12. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Brady gets tons of credit for performing with the WRs he had this year, but McDaniels gets no consideration for it. We were in the top 10 on offense in part because of McDaniels. It wasn't all talent because we didn't have a lot of talent at WR. McDaniels deserves credit for the team being remarkably balanced. People can't have it both ways. You can't praise Brady for his performance this year with the receiving talent we have and then slam McDaniels for his coaching because he has the talent.

    A lot of things you are complaining about with McDaniels are the same thing Weis used to do prior to 2004. Weis gave up on the run too quickly. Weis had a lot of three and outs prior to 2004. I posted a few weeks back comparisons from this year's offensive numbers vs. 2003 and we were better in every category from points scored to third down efficiency to fewest number of punts. The only place we did better in 2003 was turnovers by three turnovers.

    Alexander was out there because that was the gameplan. We played Alexander because TBC was a liability vs. the run last week and the Pats benched him and moved Vrabel outside. That was a calculated mistake by Pees. Put the blame where the blame belongs.
     
  13. oldskool138

    oldskool138 In the Starting Line-Up

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    #75 Jersey

    When the season started, I gave McD a break because of all the new players on offense. I used to chuckle to myself and roll my eyes when I would read the weekly NEM McD flame-fest. Then, as the season wore on, I slowly started to come around. I know Charlie Weis was flamed on these boards during his tenure but he's clearly a better O-Coordinator than McD.

    One of the reasons we lost the first frickin' Colts game was because we abandoned the run in the second half! Running only 5 times in the second half is inexcusable. We needed long, sustained drives to rest the defense and to run time off the clock. That never happened because the Pats got away from what was working and got into a shooting match with a better offensive unit.

    The (former) hallmark of the Pats O was slow, methodical drives that grind the opposing D to dust and usually results in points. I guess that philosophy left when Charlie did. I say, cut McD and get someone who can get the O into that mind-set again. It's a proven winner.
     
  14. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    This is incorrect, because McDaniels coached the offense LAST YEAR as well, with Belichick taking the heat for him. This year, McDaniels showed that he is still a complete novice.

    Also, for those of you trumping up McDaniels' accomplishments, keep in mind that the past two years we have primarily stacked this team with top offensive draft picks.

    As for putting blame where blame is due, our defense collapsed after Colvin and Hawkins went down, which is why Clark had 130+ receiving yards. HOWEVER, McDaniels didn't help by only running 4 times in the 2nd half, not generating a 1st down with a 3-point lead, and also putting Heath Evans in the backfield on the final drive. If just one of these offensive items had changed under a different coordinator, we still would have won the game despite our collapsed defense.
     
  15. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Giving up on the run was a trademark signature of Charlie Weis in 2002 and 2003. People have short memories. People cried about him giving on the run and all the three and outs we had in 2002 and 2003. We had far more three and outs in 2003 than we did this year and the numbers support it with a 42.5% thrid down coversion percentage this year, 330 total first downs, and 69 punts vs. 37.0% third down conversion percentage, 294 first downs, and 87 punts.

    People need to stop thinking the 2004 Charlie Weis was the Charlie Weis who coached this team for the entire Brady era up to that year. Much of the same criticism was thrown at Weis especially in 2002 as it was at McDaniels.
     
  16. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    SOMETHING must have been going on offensively. It was obvious in the 3rd that our defense was DONE............... totally toast. Be it the flu, the SD game, the travel, whatever, they were DONE. Peyton simply took advantage of that {10-12 other offenses this year would have done the exact same thing and put up 30+}.

    BB and JM must have know that, which should have forced them into PREVENT offense. Prevent Manning from getting the ball. Power running, dink and dunk high-percentage short passes. Hell, anything to keep the O on the field. Another words, classic Dillon time.

    The fact that he wasn't out there at ALL, tells me he was 1) hurt or 2) they were in shootout mode. Hurt makes more sense to me, as shootout mode is the last place they should have wanted to be facing Manning with a dead D and your WR's playing crappy (Reche anyway). Of course the last thing it could mean is that they were totally oblivious to the situation, which if thats the case, we had NO business going to the SB this year in the first place :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2007
  17. LiveShot

    LiveShot Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Corey Dillon was on the bench in the second half because he was exhausted. Time to let him go or resign him to a more manageable contract. The under reported cause in this game just might be the flu bug. When have you seen the Patriots dragging their butts. They were either sick or tired.:bricks:
     
  18. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    You're right. That something was McDaniels failing to realize our D was toast, and keeping Faulk off the field, completely abandoning the run, and having a time of possession imbalance by a factor of 4:1.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2007
  19. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Rob, those are nice numbers, but I respectfully disagree. The talent level of the 2006 Patriots was so much higher than Weiss' 2003 team that it's not fair to compare. A more just comparison would be Weiss' 2004 team, when Dillon joined. Even then, it's not an accurate comparison because the Pats have loaded the offense with 2005 and 2006 drafts.

    But even with your numbers, you conveniently exclude the fact that Weiss' teams always had more efficient red zone numbers compared to yardage numbers, which is indicative of good play calling. McDaniels' teams have the opposite effect, which is indicative of lots of talent but questionable play calling.
     
  20. oldskool138

    oldskool138 In the Starting Line-Up

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    I thought the RB through the Weis era was Smith. I can't blame Weis for not running him as he only averaged 3 to 3.5 yards per carry. In '04, Charlie used the heck out of Dillon (the single season Pats rushing leader). Plus, it all comes down to this...Weis = 3 SB Championships. McD = 1 Div. Round loss and 1 AFCCG loss.
     
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