Jasyon Tatum is still overrated

[1960Pats]

you are absolutely correct, it is the coach that wants this. Happy Holidays to you and yours. The constant 3s is frustrating.

The GS game was sickening. I wonder if any place keeps track of late game double digit leads lost. They have to be in the lead. Thanks for the merry wishes and same to you and everyone who reads this.

In honor of that I'll play one of my favorite Christmas videos here...

 

[VrabelJr]

Leave it to Pats Fans to have a poster or two that take issue with a 21-6 Celtics squad. When healthy this team is so much better than any team we've had since 2010.

 

[Kdo5]

You’re right on most counts but JaylenBoy5 has come to his rescue I see. I don’t pay any attention to his off court stuff but you’ve definitely nailed his attitude. It’s hard for him to even fake it when his teammates do well and he’s struggling. Go to Celtics thread to see full breakdown of why I don’t like Brown as a player.

But yeah, everyone who doesn’t like him must be racist or something (just don’t talk about how there’s zero criticism for the attitude of Tatum, White, Holiday, any other black player.)

Hey bud, I simply like Brown and believe he is a good player and argue for it. You are the one with the hate boner who has the unhealthy and weird obsession about him. It’s like the guy slept with your wife. Quite strange.

I like and support the success of everyone on the team. I’m happy when any of them are playing well. Not confident you are the same way.

 

[Brewskies]

It is February 22, 2024. Do you still think that Jason Tatum is overrated? I would suggest that Jaylen Brown is overrated today. What do you think?

 

[Kdo5]

It is February 22, 2024. Do you still think that Jason Tatum is overrated? I would suggest that Jaylen Brown is overrated today. What do you think?

I think they are both a shade better than they were last year. I think neither is overrated. They are both appropriately rated and will both look better with a ring.

With a ring Tatum is top 3 with Jokic and ???.

Giannis has a ring but his team has been disappointing ever since. Embiid has never won anything other than the MVP. Luka has truly never won anything. I’d take Tatum over Luka any day.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

It is February 22, 2024. Do you still think that Jason Tatum is overrated? I would suggest that Jaylen Brown is overrated today. What do you think?

Tatum is rated about right which is borderline top 5 player. However I look at Jokic, SGA, Embiid (when healthy), and Giannis and see a level between them and Tatum. Tatum has been great for so long though and continues to improve.

Brown has gone from the object of my derision to a much better player this season by choosing better shots, passing better, and playing better defense. That said, they should trade him while his stock his high so they can afford Tatum, Porzingis, and White, their three best players.

 

[jimnance]

Tatum is rated about right which is borderline top 5 player. However I look at Jokic, SGA, Embiid (when healthy), and Giannis and see a level between them and Tatum. Tatum has been great for so long though and continues to improve.

Brown has gone from the object of my derision to a much better player this season by choosing better shots, passing better, and playing better defense. That said, they should trade him while his stock his high so they can afford Tatum, Porzingis, and White, their three best players.

Can't argue with most of this.
As for trading JB: I assume you mean the offseason.
This team has chemistry, is still improving as they learn more about each other and is the favorite to cut down the nets. We certainly don't want to be messing with any of that.
I agree his stock has never been higher but certainly winning the title will only raise it further.
Also agree Tatum, Porzingis and White
are the 3 best C's players.
As for trade in offseason, that depends on what the deal is.
To me, no one is untouchable if it's an extremely favorable deal and would improve the team.
That being said, once you win a title with a team, it is very dangerous to mess with team chemistry.
IMHO, the C's have only had 3 untouchable players in their history:
Russell, Havlicek and Bird.
In all 3 cases, there was no one player in the entire nba I would've traded any of them for. Nobody. Not even MJ.
JB is having the best season of his career and has become much more of a team player. Trading him, or any of the starters,if we win a title this year , would have to be pretty much of a sure thing that it would improve the team.
Meaning you couldn't just receive equal value, you'd have to be fleecing someone.
Because Championship chemistry means something.

 

[Zuma]

IMO Tatum can score 30-40 every game if he wanted to in 2024. The team and Tatum is spreading the ball and minutes around as much as possible to get the other players more involved for the playoffs.

 

[jimnance]

IMO Tatum can score 30-40 every game if he wanted to in 2024. The team and Tatum is spreading the ball and minutes around as much as possible to get the other players more involved for the playoffs.

Yes, because that is what's required to win a title

 

[Kdo5]

Tatum is rated about right which is borderline top 5 player. However I look at Jokic, SGA, Embiid (when healthy), and Giannis and see a level between them and Tatum. Tatum has been great for so long though and continues to improve.

Brown has gone from the object of my derision to a much better player this season by choosing better shots, passing better, and playing better defense. That said, they should trade him while his stock his high so they can afford Tatum, Porzingis, and White, their three best players.

That's one Porzingis injury away from not being a contender anymore. And no, Sam Hauser would not be an adequate replacement.

The championship window is now. Keep all four of those guys together (JT, White, Zingis, Brown), whatever it takes until that window closes. Especially if we win it all this season. Otherwise you are dismantling something special.

 

[Zuma]

That's one Porzingis injury away from not being a contender anymore. And no, Sam Hauser would not be an adequate replacement. The championship window is now. Keep all four of those guys together (JT, White, Zingis, Brown), whatever it takes until that window closes.

You’re not a Horford fan ?

 

[Kdo5]

You’re not a Horford fan ?

A 38 y/o Al Horford who can't play back to backs being an important piece? Not a fan of it, no.

 

[Zuma]

A 38 y/o Al Horford who can't play back to backs being an important piece? Not a fan of it, no.

He’s not playing back to back because they are resting him for the playoffs. I’m a fan of that.

 

[Kdo5]

He’s not playing back to back because they are resting him for the playoffs. I’m a fan of that.

I like Al in the role he has right now. I just wouldn't heavily lean significantly on him in the future. There needs to be a younger reserve big who is better than Luke/Queta.

 

[Zuma]

I like Al in the role he has right now. I just wouldn't heavily lean significantly on him in the future. There needs to be a reserve big who is better than Luke/Queta.

I think his role is perfect right now while not forcing a lot of minutes on him.

I think he can tough it out in the playoff if Porz goes down because of the rest we are giving him now in his current role.

 

[Kdo5]

I think his role is perfect right now while not forcing a lot of minutes on him.

I think he can tough it out in the playoff if Porz goes down because of the rest we are giving him now in his current role.

Right, he could in the playoffs. You just don't want a Porzingis injury and Al being forced into heavier minutes for extended periods of time which would be the concern. Fortunately we have multiple guys who could largely make up for KP's lost offense and scoring. (JT, JB, White).

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Can't argue with most of this.
As for trading JB: I assume you mean the offseason.
This team has chemistry, is still improving as they learn more about each other and is the favorite to cut down the nets. We certainly don't want to be messing with any of that.
I agree his stock has never been higher but certainly winning the title will only raise it further.
Also agree Tatum, Porzingis and White
are the 3 best C's players.
As for trade in offseason, that depends on what the deal is.
To me, no one is untouchable if it's an extremely favorable deal and would improve the team.
That being said, once you win a title with a team, it is very dangerous to mess with team chemistry.
IMHO, the C's have only had 3 untouchable players in their history:
Russell, Havlicek and Bird.
In all 3 cases, there was no one player in the entire nba I would've traded any of them for. Nobody. Not even MJ.
JB is having the best season of his career and has become much more of a team player. Trading him, or any of the starters,if we win a title this year , would have to be pretty much of a sure thing that it would improve the team.
Meaning you couldn't just receive equal value, you'd have to be fleecing someone.
Because Championship chemistry means something.

Yeah I mean in the offseason. They can’t trade him now even if they wanted to per the CBA

 

[Brewskies]

Can't argue with most of this.
As for trading JB: I assume you mean the offseason.
This team has chemistry, is still improving as they learn more about each other and is the favorite to cut down the nets. We certainly don't want to be messing with any of that.
I agree his stock has never been higher but certainly winning the title will only raise it further.
Also agree Tatum, Porzingis and White
are the 3 best C's players.
As for trade in offseason, that depends on what the deal is.
To me, no one is untouchable if it's an extremely favorable deal and would improve the team.
That being said, once you win a title with a team, it is very dangerous to mess with team chemistry.
IMHO, the C's have only had 3 untouchable players in their history:
Russell, Havlicek and Bird.
In all 3 cases, there was no one player in the entire nba I would've traded any of them for. Nobody. Not even MJ.
JB is having the best season of his career and has become much more of a team player. Trading him, or any of the starters,if we win a title this year , would have to be pretty much of a sure thing that it would improve the team.
Meaning you couldn't just receive equal value, you'd have to be fleecing someone.
Because Championship chemistry means something.

I think people are underestimating the value of Holiday to the team effort of the Celtics.


Tatum is a different player this season than his past few years. He is the Celtic team leader and he is a Team Player today.

Brown has improved the season in some areas, but only slightly, looking at every part of his game for the past 58 games.

If you had to trade one, HAD TO TRADE ONE, who would you pick of Tatum, Porzingis, White, Holiday and Brown? I would pick Brown. They can win without him with an average replacement.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I think people are underestimating the value of Holiday to the team effort of the Celtics.


Tatum is a different player this season than his past few years. He is the Celtic team leader and he is a Team Player today.

Brown has improved the season in some areas, but only slightly, looking at every part of his game for the past 58 games.

If you had to trade one, HAD TO TRADE ONE, who would you pick of Tatum, Porzingis, White, Holiday and Brown? I would pick Brown. They can win without him with an average replacement.

Take Brown out of the lineup. Will they be as good? No. Will they be almost as good? Yes. You’re basically just taking 15-20 field goal attempts and spreading them around for others. Tatum, Porzingis, White, Holiday all take a few more shots. Hauser or whoever replaces him takes a few select, high percentage shots. Brown isn’t creating shots for others and due to his low 3 pt pct his effective field efficiency is still about average.

Take Porzingis out of the lineup. Huge downgrade for everyone. Changes the offense, no longer control the boards, no pick and roll, no shot blocking. There’s a reason they call him a unicorn.

Take Tatum out of the lineup. No more playmaking, no more alpha dog to draw double teams, no more threat to drive to hoop at all times.

Take White out of the lineup. Huge downgrade in passing, playmaking, three point shooting, leadership, lockdown defense, clutch play, and an overall steady hand at all times.

Ultimately down the road the Celtics won’t be able to pay them all. Sure it would be great but the league isn’t designed for a team to win 65+ games every year. If there were no cap, sure, keep Brown, but there is a cap and it’s about to squeeze teams even more when it comes to big contracts. It’s clearly Brown that would be the odd man out, which is also good because he’s going to command more of a return than White or Porzingis as well.

As I’ve said Brown has improved, but he plays a ton of minutes and takes a ton of shots. He still isn’t great beyond volume scoring. And for everyone saying “advanced stats don’t beat the eye test!” when I post the BPM here, you all are sure reaping the rewards of these advanced stats from the Porzingis/Smart and Holiday/Williams trades. In both cases the advanced stats heavily favored Porzingis and Holiday while Smart and Williams were “heart and soul” guys who brought “energy” etc.

 

[1960Pats]

It is February 22, 2024. Do you still think that Jason Tatum is overrated? I would suggest that Jaylen Brown is overrated today. What do you think?

It's now February 28, 2024 and I retracted my Tatum's overrated opinion on June 20, 2023 after I did some research of the top players.

The Celtics don't necessarily have to win a title but if they don't a lot will depend upon how they lost. Tatum and Brown both need to be more consistent, like White and Porzingis have been.