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Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by patfanken, Oct 3, 2011.

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  1. patfanken

    patfanken On the Roster

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    Just some miscellaneous thoughts about this afternoon.

    1. Wes Welker is the most unlikely superstar WR you can imagine. He is so OPPOSITE what you'd expect a dominant WR to look like, its almost mind numbing. Just picture a police line up of the elite WRs in the league. CJohnson, Andre Johnson, Larry Fitcgerald,, etc ....and then Wes Welker

    b. Its interesting, that despite the fact that he's 30, and slight of stature, and takes a wicked beating every game; he is defining common wisdom by having what amounts to a break out season. He seems quicker, faster (and they are not the same thing) and more sure handed. But this is really the first year in his career, despite all his prior catvches, that Wes is playing more than just a slot possession WR role. THIS season he is running all the routes

    c. Generally guys who enter their 30's and are in their NINTH season, do not improve their ypc by over 50% Welker in his previous 4 seasons only averaged just over 10 ypc He is currently averaging over 15 yp

    d. The bad news is, what do the Pats do about his contract. On one hand how can you NOT reward a player who has been so consistently good for everyone of the 5 years he's been here, especially when he havng a record breaking season in his contract year.

    On the other hand is it REALLY the wisest decision to pay him the going rate for his kind of production. Do you really want to pay a 31 year old WR over $10+MM for the next 3-4 years, especially one of his stature.

    The problem with guys his size, is that went it starts to go south, it goes south very quickly. Troy Brown had his most productive seasons in his 9th and 10th years with about 100 receptions in those years. IN his last 4 season with the Pats he never topped 43 catches, which is ironic since it was in those years that the Pats offense was morphing into the passing juggernaut its become.s

    The point being that while it seems like a no brainer to just pay him what ti takes, its really not that simple

    2. Nat Solder- Image where the OL would have been if we haven't drafted this kid. His play has been so consistently good, its scary. You only have to watch what happened to the Jets when they had to replace just one key player on its OL;. Meanwhile the Pats have had to replace TWO, and have done so seamlessly.

    All I heard today was how banged up the Steeler OL is, and how banged up the Jets OL is, and How banged up their Bears OL is. What we never hear is how banged up the Pats OL is. Why? Because we've managed to carry on without a hitch.

    3. THe thought that Gronk and Nate are going to line up next to each other for most of the decade, not only sends shivers down MY spine, imaging how Ridley and Vareen feel. Don't forget that Gronk is one of the better rum blockers among TE's

    4. I can't believe what a great pick up Brian Waters turned out to be. He's been here just over a month and it seems like he's been a Patriot forever.

    5 I think people should better appreciate what the defense accomplished today. They controlled the league's best rushing offense. They went on the road and allowed a team which had averaged 35 points the last 2 game to only 13 non garbage time points. And they did it WITHOUT 2 key DL men (Wright and Haynesworth) without 2 of the top 3 CBs.AND without their defensive MVP. Not to mention that aside from an impaired Patrick Chung, an almost invisible Safety group

    6, While it would be nice to see a defensive performance like we saw last night by the Ravens D, we shouldn't focus so much on the total yds the defense allows. Its STILL about the points, and the Pats performance in the Red Zone this year gives me hope that things will improve, much like they did last season.;

    I would also point out that the 2001 and 2003 Pats defenses ranked 26th and 24th respectively in those Superbowl years

    7. I'm not one of those people who believe that the Pats have made a radial shift to the 4-3, it still looks to me that the Pats DL is stll predominately looking to control the DLman as they rush the passer, like in the 2 gap, instead of just trying to get past them in a one gap.
    Now this is just an impression. Hopefully one of you guys who tape the game and analyze it can confirm or deny that impression.

    8. Hopefully we will at least get back Dowling, Boddin and Haynesworth for next week and we will start to see some impact plays from the Safeties no named Chung. I'd settle for at least hearing their names called for some positive results. ;) Hard to evaluate the D, with so many key parts missing or playing impaired.

    9. With Haynesworth and Wright out and Love getting hurt, it looks like having Brace and Deadrick waiting in the wings wasn't such a bad situation. Now its begining to look more like perfect timing. BTW can someone remind me of when these guys can start to practice with the team and how long do we have before we have to activate them or send them to IR.

    10. Among the comments I heard by commentators that rang true was concerning the negative effect the lack of padded practices are having on certain aspects of the game like run offense - run defenee - pass rush and Tackling. I would really hope that the league and NFLPA would look to amend these rules after the season. I understand what they were trying to do, but they went too far and its affecting the game

    11. And now its on to JETS WEEK!!!!!. The bad news is the Pats don't play defense as well as the Ravens do currently. The good news is, our QB isn't going to have a 33% completion rate. :D Let the games begin. Go find me Gunnails
  2. nashvillepatsfan

    nashvillepatsfan Rookie

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    Gunnails probably isnt in the mood for us tonight :D
  3. tuckeverlasting

    tuckeverlasting Rookie

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    poor thing.
  4. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    You just argued that run offense and run defense are both suffering as compared with prior seasons.

    Umm -- how can you tell? :)
  5. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's not the size of the dog in the fight Ken, it's the size of the fight in the dog. Welker is a beast and a durable one. He kind of put it out there tonight in the presser that everyone in his unit needs to put in the kind of effort and attention to detail that he does. He's the one guy on this team who has matched Brady's intensity consistently since the day he arrived. Much like Tom after 2008, he has racheted the intensity up to another level. It's all about the guaranteed money, and he's earned a guaranteed deal that matches his entire previous deal. He's not going to back off any more than he did the last time. He and Brady are two guys you can count on to deliver and hold up their end of a deal barring catestrophic injury (and even then in a manner of speaking because they will come back). This guy can get on the field and stay on the field and consistently make impact plays. Screw your perceptions. Nem was convinced he was a mistake because of his.

    Wes is the perfect example for a Belichick constructed team to emulate on both sides of the ball. If you have enough talent to get here you have enough to be a playmaker if you make that your unwavering focus. You can get a little faster or quicker or stronger not to mention smarter. Don't settle for arriving - the goal is achieving. Don't allow narrow minded critics to pidgeon hole you. Be singleminded, figure out whatever it's going to take for you to be a difference maker and just do it.

    It would go a long way if some of the young prospects and some of the veteran reclamation projects could muster a fraction of the unwavering determination the QB and his binky still exhibit regularly after years of success in the league.

    NFL contracts are always a crapshoot and we waste enough money speculating on guys who never step up or once rewarded peter out. Invest in excellence and at least you send a message that is paramount in this largely blue collar system. Don't give Bill an excuse to chase the hype because that's not his forte and it's not how this team has won.
  6. DarrylS

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    Enjoyable as always.. I agree about Welker, probably not going to be MVP, but defies the prototypical NFL WR.

    One thing you left out was our running game, very impressed with both BJGE and Ridley.. even when Woodhead went down, we did not miss a beat. BJGE with the legs pumping and hanging on to the rock and Ridley's speed.

    There was a deliberate intent to balance the game plan, to take some of the pressure off of TB.. the results were not as pretty, but the ending was good.

    My concerns right now have to do with the health of the Defense.. it is being reported that Mayo has a sprained knee, will have to depend on Spikes and Guyton.. also Ninkovich left the game as well. Too many injuries this year.
  7. borg

    borg On the Roster

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    1) WW:
    On pace for....
    2464 yds
    20 TDs
    160 catches.......Wasn't Moss paid $9 mill/year as a Pat. Our TWWofTDG (tiny white warrior of touchdown goodness) is gonna be rich

    2) In the past two weeks, the Pats 1st and goal, inside the 5, rushing offense is 1 for 4 (BJGE TD). Buffalo pushed the O line backwards on 2 series (Light and Mankins were getting blown up by Buffalo) requiring Brady to bail 'em out and Oakland stood strong at the end of the game. This could be a big problem going forward. Looks like Brady will need to be passing on 4th and short when BB decides to go for it, and on the goal line.

    3) Ds are starting to double the Gronk seam pass. Time to add a wrinkle or two

    4) How about the confusion/mahem the Ravens D created vs the Sanchize. I'm so excited by the Jets O line failures that I actually believe we might get a sack next week!!!! In all seriousness, the Ravens were willing to give up the big play by creatively blitzing and just happened to score 3 TDs in the process. This Vanilla Pats D has to be scrapped this week. If not vs the Jets....WHEN?
  8. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    While I agree completely, and your post bears repeating I'm PMing Ian to have you banned for even mentioning you-know-who.
  9. PatsWickedPissah

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    Look at Brady's stats so far this year and what stands out (OK besides the # of picks early in the season)? The # of plays OVER 20 yards. That's because of 2 players, Gronk and Welker. It's more remarkable that Welk this far in his career has moved his game up a notch. Yes he is running routes that the OC did not have him run previously AND he's wide open on most of them. Brady had a good game Sunday but not his very good game. He missed 2 deep balls to a wide open Welker who had clearly beaten the coverage deep. Scary.

    Although on 2nd thought we were better off not scoring quickly as our D had more time to rest and less time to give up yards. The eat the clock run game served this problematic D very well vs the hurry up offense that scores quickly and gives the opposition more possessions per game. Take note BOB and BB. I'm certain that in looking at their D in game planning they got that offensive result on purpose.
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2011
  10. FreeTedWilliams

    FreeTedWilliams pfadmins PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The First thing the Jets will do is put Revis on Welker. Rivas will hold Welker all day and get away with it like he always does. The Pats are still in serious trouble! Now with Mayo out, ouch. The Raiders went 90 yards in two plays, granted it was the end of the game, but that is exactly it, at this time you are suppose to let the guy catch the ball in front of you and tackle him in bounds and make them burn up the clock, no 90 yards in two plays!!!!

    The Pats offense is looking better, and Riddley is looking good, but Woodhead went out of yesterday's game and did not return. Does that mean Vareen??? Unless Dirty Sanchez turns the ball over three times, I have a hard time seeing the Pats winning. Not only can't their defense stop anyone, is it me, or is EVERYONE open in the Pats secondary?? I can't even tell if they are playing man or zone! Everyone is open by ten yeards.

    Once again, not even a hint of a pass rush. The Ravens have terrible corners, but Sanchez was literally ducking for his life. Still no hope in sight for this defense, no pass rush anywhere, nothing even close. You figure the Pats have (had) big leads in each of their four games, and still have a few last minute sacks and that's it. They don't even have pressures. Campbell was untouched yesterday, he was something like 8 for 8 on third downs. Feel good if you want to, BUT, unless something drastically changes, the Pats aren't winning anything with this defense...
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2011
  11. satz

    satz Rookie

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    Brace and Deadrick will be activated week 6 and the pats have 3 weeks to evaulate them for return.

    Our FS play is garbage if the guy can take his head out of his az , Our defense will improve drastically.

    WW - when brady is in trouble he looks for him , next year and following you are paying 6.5 million to Ocho..... who is as age as wes and is unproducting.
    so what do you think wes is worth.?.
  12. mosi

    mosi Rookie

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    Additionally, I don't like having Brady call Welker the heart and soul of the team. Makes it easy to know who to take out, no? Revis will be all over Welker, Cromarite will be on Branch. That leaves Gronk and Ocho and the backs. Pick your poison.
  13. 5 Rings for Brady!!

    5 Rings for Brady!! Rookie

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    Agree with several posts here.

    You gotta keep Welker if possible. He is the type player this team was full of when we won championships. Blue collar get-the-job-done.

    We seem to have less and less of that determined attitude on the team each season.

    Personally I plan to enjoy the season for what it brings but I would not place money on this defense.
  14. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That is what happens when your safety doesn't hustle and is out of position on a regular basis. Sergio Brown has no business being on the field. Never mind on the next play Guyton being out of position.. And he's the "best coverage LB" the Pats have??

    No hint of a pass rush??? Umm.. They flushed Campbell from the pocket numerous times. And only once did he run and get a 1st down. Campbell has the ability to throw the ball on the run. Which is what he did on a few occasions.

    People on this board do not understand what a pass rush is. I'm convinced of that now.

    BTW, since you missed it. The Pats held a team that was averaging almost 31 points a game to 19. They held a team that was at the top of the league in Red Zone offense to 2 TDs in 6 tries.

    Do the Pats have issues? Yep. They have no legitimate 2nd safety. They have a ton of injuries on the D-line (missing 5 D-linemen currently). They just lost their best LB to an injury that will probably sidleline him for 6-8 weeks. They've had no off-season to practice and gel. They came out playing a brand new defense that no one on the team was familiar with.

    But they have shown improvement each week. Yes, even in the loss to Buffalo. And improvement is what you look for.
  15. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Ocho won't be here next year unless something drastic happens. Ocho is going to be cut..
  16. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    With the current set of injuries, this could be the least talented defense Belichick has had to work with in his time here.

    We're missing key players on every level of the defense and have been all year. Once one guy gets healthy enough to play, another goes down.

    It could be like this all year, but I'd rather have the injuries now.

    Unfortunately, I just don't see how this defense can improve without guys like Haynesworth, Wright, Bodden, Mayo, etc. playing. It's just too much.
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2011
  17. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    Stats, even points, can be misleading. I'm sure even Belichick would say that. Publicly he might be saying we got the W, but behind closed doors - and now that we've seen the NFLN special, we know this - he's ripping this team and this defense apart.

    This defense has not improved in the last two weeks. If anything, it has gotten more porous and more hindered by injuries.

    The defense makes plays, and that is its saving trait at this moment. But otherwise, this really is the least effective defense Belichick has had to work with. People can say bend, don't break - but no defense is designed to leave such wide open receivers all over the field.

    We have some real issues that will not be solved with the current personnel, and can only be solved with the health of the team improving.
  18. NYCPatsFan

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    Moss was paid that much because his market value was that much at that point and other teams were willing to fork out more than that. Think he actually took a paycut to join us. That's history anyway.

    Hats off to Wes. Our man is probably among the handful of players who do such a fantastic job on the field and do not go about demanding a pay hike. It is astounding and inspiring to see his attitude and I wish all the other players look at him and try to play their contract out instead of sulking and pouting and costing both the team and the fan so much irritation.

    WW is my hero and I soon plan to buy one of his jersey's along with that of Troy Brown's. :)

    Sidenote: I dislike highlighting the race of a person when we evaluate his/her skills and performance. Does it matter when we admire and congratulate such a spectacular feat and aspire to be like that person in terms of their selfness nature and the attitude with which they perform their job?

    On Ravens' D: ferocious no doubt but the Jester's OL was missing its key player, who might return for the next game.

    our D: scrap it now? for what?? What players are available there?? I have learnt not to get worked up so much on seeing the high rate of thrid down completions (which btw think is what the Ravens D also did).

    Finally - Ken, thanks for the thoughts. Your threads are one constant on our board that I eagerly look forward to reading every week. :)
  19. zoostation

    zoostation Rookie

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    I know Wrecksie is not the smartest man on the planet....but i'm going to go out on a limb and say he planned to have revis on welker before tb12 called him the 'heart and soul'
  20. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The Raiders killed themselves with penalties and unforced errors. They had no problems abusing the Patriots defense.
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