idle thoughts - knee jerk reactions....

[Deus Irae]

I thought of a positive....yes.....a positive
Pats are 3-1 despite playing 3 road games. I think that means there are more home games left. I'll have to check that.

Another positive:

The collapses of the Colts and Chiefs, combined with the collapse (to date) of the Eagles, help to make the last 7 games on the schedule all look very winnable.

 

[condon84]

More positive:

We're winning despite our defense playing this bad. It can't get any worse. It has to get better. Injured players will come back and solidify our D. I still have hopes for a Wilfork and Haynesworth monster combo.

 

[patfanken]

Except there weren't 27 called rushing plays by the Raiders. 4 of those runs, for 29 yards, were on scrambles by Campbell after the Pats flushed him from the pocket.

Did the Pats make 2 mistakes? Yep. One resulted in a 41 yard run by McFadden and one a 30 yard run on an end around by Ford. Yes, I can chose to look at those 2 plays as the exceptions and not the norm for yesterday. The result would be 55 yards on 22 carries. That looks pretty good.. Those two plays would be points of emphasis for film review and to improve upon.

That doesn't "kill the argument" as you put it.



How about you and others stop exaggerating about how "bad" they are doing. Ken did post HONEST analysis. Just because you disagree due to being overly anal retentive doesn't change that. And he has said he expects them to improve.



Sorry, Deus, but there is nothing in points 5,6 or 7 that should make anyone think that PFK is "sugarcoating" anything.



It's not "irrelevant" to the discussion because he used it in his first post. It's called using prior history as a reason not to over-react and have a positive outlook. I know that's hard for you to understand, but it's certainly not irrelevant.



I think that the OP would know more about what we're talking about in this thread than you would. And, I'm sorry to say that your post is what is meaningless.

Thanks DB. Only now I have to figure out what to do with the extra time I would have spent responding to DI, saying exactly what you said, only not as articulately.

 

[patfanken]

Another positive:

The collapses of the Colts and Chiefs, combined with the collapse (to date) of the Eagles, help to make the last 7 games on the schedule all look very winnable.

I agree about the Colts and KC, they look much more winnable than they did at the start of the season, but the Eagles, despite their 1-3 record, will still remain a very difficult task. Like us their offense is virtually unstoppable in gaining yds, though again like us,. their defense looks very vulnerable at this point of the season.

On the plus side,. despite the numbers that Vick is putting up, who knows if he'll even be around by the time the Pats play Philly, Still it will be one of the tougher games the Pats play.

BTW- IIRC, didn't the Pats once have a team that started the season 1-3 and then went on to great success.

Trust me there is nothing I'd like better than to have the "dream team" continue on their road to failure, but I don't see the continuing bad record continuing long term

 

[Metaphors]

The Pats are the only team in the league not to have a fumble. Only 1 of 3 teams (Bills and Lions) not to have lost a fumble.

The Pats defense hasn't taken the field yet with the team behind.
Tied = 12% of drives
Up 1 Score = 37%
Up 2 Scores = 37%
Up 3 Scores = 15%

TD Rate of Opposing Drives = 24%
Failure Rate of Opposing Drives = 49% (Failure = TO + 4th down stop + 3-n-out)

The TD rate is too high and the Failure rate is too low. The sweet spot seems to be when the Pats are up between 9 and 16 points (TD Rate = 13%, Failure Rate = 67%). So the defense looks to be able to play relatively well when there is some pressure, but not too much...which seems to fit with the offense. They need to find this same backbone for times when the offense can't give them a nice cushion to sit on.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Except that theyre 3-1 now. Wait they won? Wow. Seriously take a chill pill man. You should have given your gloom and doom speech at the end of the Bills game. Or is this the same speech recycled? In any case. The Pats D gave up 19 points. Its their first game where they kept the opponent under 20. They are still in the process of gelling and have room to improve. They did stopp DMC from hitting 100 yards rushing so as far as stuffing the run - mission accomplished. They forced Campbell to beat them through the air and he couldnt do it.

Feel good if you want to, BUT, unless something drastically changes, the Pats aren't winning anything with this defense...

 

[DonBlackmon55]

Ocho won't be here next year unless something drastic happens. Ocho is going to be cut..

2012 - the year of Taylor Price

 

[DonBlackmon55]

I'm not saying that they can't beat the Jets (they can), what I'm saying is that their is no way this defense can stand up to a Drew Brees/Aaroon Rodgers led attack. If your gaol is to win the SUperbowl, then it can't happen.

SB ? How about winning a playoff game for a change.

Last Time this team won a playoff game was Jan 20, 2008, eeking out a 21-12 win over a gimpy Rivers, Gates, Tomlinson, and Brady's 3 picks

 

[Joker]

SB ? How about winning a playoff game for a change.

Last Time this team won a playoff game was Jan 20, 2008, eeking out a 21-12 win over a gimpy Rivers, Gates, Tomlinson, and Brady's 3 picks

You are easily the most ignorant, poor second grade level speller and unknowingly transparent troll to ever disgrace a Patriots forum.
First off..."eeking"???????????????..how stupid are you anyway? I'm guessing(can't be sure because you're so freakin' stupid)...that you mean EKING, which is a verb form of "to eke". In context, "the Pats won 21 to 20" would be considered eking...I'll even go so far as "the Pats won 21 to 18" as eking out a win.However, a NINE point win in a PLAYOFF game is "eeking!!!!!"???? Right,newsflash nitwit....the "eeking" you hear in the distance is coming from the Shady Acres Sanitarium graveyard where a few thousand poor souls with sub 60 I.Q.'s just turned over in their graves "eeking" at your intergalactic stupidity.

As far as your totally ridiculous qualifiers about the Chargers...they had the same exact chance to win when the coin was flipped as the Patriots did.; What happened, happened. Only a complete moron underpins his little sobbing, 5 year girl's logic with "the Chargers started players who were injured!!!!!!"..everybody is banged up by the time they get to a conference championship...it's not the Patriots job to worry about the state of the Chargers roster,it's their job to WIN, they DID that.Their record went to 18-0. Yet all you can squeak like a little rat about is "they eeked!!!!!!" out a win. Guess what Moronstein, a win is a win, especially in the playoffs...obviously this CLUE escapes you...now go get your fuggin' shinebox....

 

[The Brandon Five]

everybody is banged up by the time they get to a conference championship...

Or the Super Bowl...

Or a Wild Card Playoff:

Patriots’ talking points: Report says Brady has cracked ribs | New England Patriots | projo.com | The Providence Journal

Or a Divisional Playoff (heck, maybe even the whole season:

NFL.com news: Brady has stress fracture in right foot that predates 2010

 

[Joker]

I apologize to the rest of the board for that outburst but whoever this clown is (and I mean that in the sincerest way possible), he's running from thread to thread making what looks like hundreds of posts now, every single one of them attacking the team, the players, the coaching staff,and by association,we fans.Enough. I've never used the ignore function here...THIS looks like the start...a troll is one thing...a stupid and unknowingly ignorant troll is a jackass of an entirely different color.

 

[RIpats88]

so much doom and gloom after a WIN...doesnt make sense to me....its only 4games in to the season and the it is FAR from over..

of course theres ALOT of room for improvement with the defense...but without alot of key starters playing we were able to hold the Raiders to 13pts(in non garbage time) and basically rendered mcfadden useless....

a switch to 4-3, no offseason and alot of new faces/injuries...if its december and they are still giving up so many yards with no pass rush i'll be worried...but for now, give them time. with the amount of talent on this defense i think it will all have to come together eventually(the pass rush as well)..theres more talented guys on this line to spur a rush on the qb than last year imo....and about the offense, ochocinco will get it eventually as well..despite limited playing time, he seemed in sync with brady/offense in the raiders game..evidenced by his 3 target in 19 snaps

theres NO perfect team in the NFL...look at the eagles "dream team" with all their talented signings at 1-3...or the jets/steelers both teams made it to the AfC championship sitting at 2-2 with shoddy offensive lines....thats the beauty of the salary cap...you pick your poison...

 

[Captain Cliche]

I've never used the ignore function here...THIS looks like the start

Toolbar left hand side
...User CP
...Edit Ignore List (12th one down)

To me it's like wearing my Bose noise reduction headphones...eliminates background noise.

 

[captain stone]

But some here dwell on them like they can't be fixed as the season rolls on. The fact is that how a team looks in September hasn't any impact on what they might be come playoff time.
We were fed the same line last year, and how did that season end?
The fact is, this defense is indeed unfixable. The is simply not nearly enough talent or depth
at any level to compensate for the deficiencies of the other levels.

How many times do I have to point out that the 2001 and 2003 Championship teams had defenses that ranked in the LOWER quarter of the league. If you want a more recent example, just look at the Colts in their Superbowl year. They had a horrendous year on defense, yet it was the defense that keyed their superbowl run.
Comparing the vet-laden defenses of '01 & '03 who knew Bill's system and could execute it
to the bunch of mostly has-beens, never-weres & never-will-bees with whom we are now stuck
is like comparing apples with hand grenades.
And I believe that what keyed the Clots SB run more than Bob Sanders' return was the serendipity of facing Hermie Edwards, Steve McNair & Rexie GrossMan during the POs,
not to mention the AFCCG That Must Not Be Mentioned.

If come late December, we are are seeing the same kinds of flaws in the defense, then YES , it will be time to panic and CORRECT to feel despair a bout the potential for a long playoff run. But at this point, one is not being a blind homer for recognizing the potential for improvement and pointing out the positives

Except that, as currently constituted, there is no potential whatsoever for improvement.

Edit: Is there potential for improving to the point that the defense will not be a league laughingstock of suckitude & sieveness? Maybe. Improving to the point that it will help us go where we need to go? Not a chance.

 

[JackBauer]

Except that, as currently constituted, there is no potential whatsoever for improvement.

This is just a dumb post. No way around it.

 

[RIpats88]

how can anyone say theres no talent in our defense to improve? on paper we have alot of talent. its just everything coming together..alot of blown coverages and poor tackling..even tedy in his recent column says there should be improvement

looking at some stats online, the packers whom everyone seems to deem the best in the nfl right now are 31st in passing yards allowed (only 1 above us) with 335yards allowed..honestly they look alot like us..just a better run defense

were right up there for best in the afc....the steelers arent the same, neither are the jets...the ravens d is good..but flacco will make up for that with his dumb mistakes

all we need our defense to do is get better and just become 'decent'

 

[patfanken]

Except that, as currently constituted, there is no potential whatsoever for improvement.

Whoa there Captain. I know you tend to see things from the dark side, but this is quite a bit over the line.

We were fed the same line last year, and how did that season end?
The fact is, this defense is indeed unfixable. The is simply not nearly enough talent or depth
at any level to compensate for the deficiencies of the other levels.

First the defense DID improve- VASTLY over the course of the season. I'll leave others to give you all the stats that showed this, but the one that comes to mind, is that, after giving up a ton of points early in the season (much like now), the Pats ended up being the EIGHTH best scoring D in the league. But it isn't just scoring, the Pats improved on all aspects of the defense last season.

To think that given all the new faces, the injuries, the short off season, a new defensive scheme, that this defense isn't going to improve is ludicrous. You really must not think much of BB and his staff as coaches if you believe that.

The Pats played against Oakland without 5 of their top 13 defensive players. Half their DBs had less than 2 months with the team. What the **** were you expecting the 85 Bears

And if you want to blame the defense for the loss of the Playoff game, then fine, be myopic. That game was NOT lost because of the defense, and even the best defenses gives up points, or did the 30+ they gave up vs the Pathers in 2003 simply didn't happen

Now I'm NOT saying that the 2010 defense was great, but the FACTS are they they did improve, and they weren't the reason the Pats lost that single game.

Comparing the vet-laden defenses of '01 & '03 who knew Bill's system and could execute it to the bunch of mostly has-beens, never-weres & never-will-bees with whom we are now stuck is like comparing apples with hand grenades.

Again, you are asking why can't we have a great defense like the one that gave up 30+ against the Panthers in the superbowl? Yeah, I know. It was only one game....just like the playoff game vs the Jets

And I believe that what keyed the Clots SB run more than Bob Sanders' return was the serendipity of facing Hermie Edwards, Steve McNair & Rexie GrossMan during the POs, not to mention the AFCCG That Must Not Be Mentioned.

I don't disagree with you on the point you made about the sorry group of teams the Colts had to go through to get to their superbowl, but its very hypocritical to say that they improved because they got Sanders back, and totally dismiss the potential effect of the Pats getting back, Haynesworth, Dowling, Boddin, Wright, etc.


[
/QUOTE]

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

27 for 160, Ken... It's always convenient to ignore the other runs when it kills your argument, though, so I can understand why you'd do that.



If that's the reality, quit posting nonsense about how well they're doing, and post honest analysis with the understanding that you expect they'll improve.



You're clearly trying to sugarcoat it, Ken, so claiming that nobody is trying to do so just makes you look silly.



You can point it out all you want. It's completely irrelevant to a discussion about what happened in the Raiders game, but don't let that stop you.



We're talking about what's happened through the first four weeks of the season and, in particular with this thread, what happened against the Raiders. Projecting what they are going to do in December is meaningless in such a context.

58 minutes gone in the game.

13 points scored.

A team that put up 34 points on the vaunted Jets defense, scored 13 points.

Still the Douche is still here. Maybe he needs to start hangin' with Tedy.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

You don't need to be able to outswim a shark to survive. You just need to be able to swim faster than the guy next to you. Context is everything.

Just caught this. If I ever decide to adopt a sig...:rocker:

 

[captain stone]

Whoa there Captain. I know you tend to see things from the dark side, but this is quite a bit over the line.


First the defense DID improve- VASTLY over the course of the season. I'll leave others to give you all the stats that showed this, but the one that comes to mind, is that, after giving up a ton of points early in the season (much like now), the Pats ended up being the EIGHTH best scoring D in the league. But it isn't just scoring, the Pats improved on all aspects of the defense last season.
The defense did indeed improve in December, esp. vs da Bears & J-E-S-T. Jumping to quick leads helped make those non-juggernaut offenses one-dimensional & easy to defend. The Doofins & Billiards had already emotionally finished their seasons, and we would've lost to the Pack at home had Rogers played.

To think that given all the new faces, the injuries, the short off season, a new defensive scheme, that this defense isn't going to improve is ludicrous. You really must not think much of BB and his staff as coaches if you believe that.
0-3 the last 3 PO games, 2 of them at home, and the 3rd at a neutral site. One of the reasons for those losses was coaching, and the lack of adjustments & motivation.

The Pats played against Oakland without 5 of their top 13 defensive players. Half their DBs had less than 2 months with the team. What the **** were you expecting the 85 Bears?
Half of their DBs don't belong on an NFL roster.

And if you want to blame the defense for the loss of the Playoff game, then fine, be myopic. That game was NOT lost because of the defense, and even the best defenses gives up points, or did the 30+ they gave up vs the Pathers in 2003 simply didn't happen?

Now I'm NOT saying that the 2010 defense was great, but the FACTS are they they did improve, and they weren't the reason the Pats lost that single game.
They weren't the only reason, but they def. were one of the reasons.

Again, you are asking why can't we have a great defense like the one that gave up 30+ against the Panthers in the superbowl? Yeah, I know. It was only one game....just like the playoff game vs the Jets.
Most of those points were scored because of that ******ed squib kick at the end of the 1st half, Rodney's injury in the 4th quarter, and Ty Poole's suckitude.

I don't disagree with you on the point you made about the sorry group of teams the Colts had to go through to get to their superbowl, but its very hypocritical to say that they improved because they got Sanders back, and totally dismiss the potential effect of the Pats getting back, Haynesworth, Dowling, Boddin, Wright, etc.
I wasn't the one who claimed that the Clots won the SB because they got Sanders back.[
/QUOTE]

These are all very fair points as usual, Ken. And I bought the hype before the POs began, too.
I knew deep down that there wasn't nearly enough talent at OLB & DL, but I hoped that
the turnovers & coaching & playing with a lead would overcome those deficiencies.
But when the time came for them to help the inconsistent offense, the result was:
Zero QB hits, Zero FFs, Zero INTs.
And Bill then doesn't use any of his top-150 picks on defense. Not one.

And do we really know what we'll have whenever any of these guys return?
Uncle Al - his health is iffy, as is his attitude & general mental state.
Ras IR Dowling - made of glass.
Bodden - wasn't playing well before his injuries. But hey, he has his cash now,
so why put in the extra effort to improve?
Mike Wright - ain't coming back. WTF hasn't Bill IRed him already?
Mayo - huge, huge loss; not because of his turnover-causing ability, of which he has very little,
but because of his tackling ability, of which the rest of this defense has very, very little.

Sorry, but I'm not buying the hype this year - not now, not 3 months from now.
Not until they, you know, actually win a PO game.