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I Knew We not "Best Ever," go ahead hate me

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by newton_tom_cat, Nov 26, 2007.

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  1. newton_tom_cat

    newton_tom_cat Rookie

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    all along i never bought into "best team ever" hype. so go ahead and hate me now. emmitt is right, we don't have the depth that an all-time great team would need. we have a very mediocre running game at best. and when our offense isnt dominating an opponent our defense shows its age and wears down rather quickly. this team is more like the rams "greatest show on turf" than we are 70s steelers, 80s 9ers and 90's cowboys. but hey thats fine, greatest show on turf won the superbowl, which i still think we will this year. a and that will make it 4 super bowls in 7 years. in that sense we have a better case for "best dynasty ever" than we do for "best team ever" this year. so go ahead hate on me cuz im not driking the cool aid. but i call it like i see it
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2007
  2. He Ban Me

    He Ban Me Banned

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    Re: I Knew We not "Best Ever", go ahead hate me

    You guys are really great, best "best ever" is over done and immaterial. Defense STILL makes plays when it needs to, but they looked a little pedestrian last night. Too much left over Turkey.
  3. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: I Knew We not "Best Ever", go ahead hate me

    Sorry, was this about the Pats or about you?
  4. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: I Knew We not "Best Ever", go ahead hate me

    If this team wins out you can make the GOAT argument. There are many more well trained FB players now than before. I would also make the point that it would be a greater team feat to go 19-0 in this age of parity especially putting up the kind of numbers the Pats have.

    Not too worried about this stuff now there are still 8 games to go.
  5. ATippett56

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    Re: I Knew We not "Best Ever", go ahead hate me

    Who are you?
  6. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: I Knew We not "Best Ever", go ahead hate me

    Someone who used the words "I" or "Me" seven times in one post.
  7. letekro

    letekro Rookie

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    Re: I Knew We not "Best Ever", go ahead hate me

    A lot of times nostalgia gets in the way of the facts. Let me help clear your mind:

    1. Those Dallas Cowboys teams lost 3, 4, 5, 6 games per year. That goes the same for the other teams you mentioned. The 49ers did go 15-1 one year. You're acting like these other teams won every game they played.

    2. No one in the modern era has a margin of victory as great as ours. That means we dominate.

    So, I don't know what to tell you, you can believe what you want, but the facts show that if we go 19-0 AND have the largest margin of victory ever, we are the most dominating team ever.
  8. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: I Knew We not "Best Ever", go ahead hate me

    I don't think people will hate you for saying the Patriots are not the best ever. I think if they read all of your posts, there would be plenty of other things to hate you for.
  9. dwayne

    dwayne Rookie

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    Re: I Knew We not "Best Ever", go ahead hate me

    The 14-2 49ers of 1989 may actually have been slightly better than the 15-1 49ers of 1984, actually. Both are right up there for all-time great single seasons, though. Also, both versions actually went 8-0 on the road in their seasons.
  10. newton_tom_cat

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    Re: I Knew We not "Best Ever", go ahead hate me

    to your points:

    1. it's also a matter of your competition, and admittedly our AFC East counterparts are not competition in any era. rest of the league isn't in such good shape either
    2. blowouts tell me nothing. a lot of great teams win with defense, which produce lower scoring games and lower margin of victories. also, when you dominate a team the margin of victory is largely determined by the dominant team, with many choosing to cool things down, rest starters and convert to running game earlier than this team has.
  11. everlong

    everlong Rookie

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    Re: I Knew We not "Best Ever", go ahead hate me

    This is such a knee jerk reaction post. Nobody blows everybody out every week and to think the Patriots were going to was\is foolish and the fact that the main steam media was propagating this myth should tell everybody everything they need to know. We survived and that's all that matters. Give the Eagles credit especially their Oline and Dline they played their @sses off.

    As far as the greatest ever that's still to be determined and is so subjective that who can ever really know for sure.

    Upside of this win.

    1. Media will at least slow down on the hype machine. From almost the start of the game I wanted Michael and Madden to stop ball washing the Pats. I cannot stand when announcer crews to it for other teams and it was getting sickening even as a Pats fan last night.

    2. We won a close game that will server as great motivation.

    3. Pats will have time to work on in slants and bump and run coverage.
  12. letekro

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    Re: I Knew We not "Best Ever", go ahead hate me

    1. You're right about the AFC East, but we have a first place schedule, and by the end of the year will have played Indy, Dallas and Pittsburgh. If we beat GB in the Super Bowl, that will mean we beat the 4 best teams in the league besides us. What more do you want?

    2. If blowouts tell you nothing, then how about close games? We came from behind at Indy and against Philly on nights when we clearly weren't playing great ball. A lot of those teams you mentioned would play poorly and lose. We played poorly and won.
  13. dwayne

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    Re: I Knew We not "Best Ever", go ahead hate me

    What's a "1st place schedule", out of interest?

    There are only 2 games chosen aren't there? (With yours' being the Colts and Chargers....)
  14. ChoWZa

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    Re: I Knew We not "Best Ever", go ahead hate me

    If the patriots were squeaking games out vs AFC east teams then your argument would have some merit.

    The Patriots have done everything you would expect a superior team vs lesser division teams, they have run away with every game. What more did you want? All shutouts?

    The Patriots play every good team the league has this year, except the Packers (as has been mentioned). If they go 19-0 they will likely have played the defending champions twice.

    If the Patriots go 19-0 and are not the best team ever, I do not think any points you brought up stand to prove that.
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2007
  15. PatsNut

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    Re: I Knew We not "Best Ever", go ahead hate me

    First off, this was ONE game. The Eagles played them tough but the Pats had a horrible game. As far as the running game, they're still 7th in the NFL and they've made it a point to pass. The best ever argument can't really be made until the end of the season, but to say that they don't have the depth and the defense is old and tired is a silly statement. Last I checked, they did win and the defense had a couple of great stops when they needed to. I think if they didn't have solid depth, they lose that game last night.
  16. Tunescribe

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    Re: I Knew We not "Best Ever", go ahead hate me

    We know you're a fraud. There are no football fans in Newton.
  17. FirstAndGoal

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    Re: I Knew We not "Best Ever", go ahead hate me

    And the Steelers of the 70s are outweighed on the line by about 50 pounds per person on both sides of the ball. The linebackers are the size of running backs and the defensive backs of the 70s are slower than our linebackers.

    So what's your point? You can't compare era to era because it doesn't match up. You have to compare them to the comp at the time.

    If you really think that the 70s Steelers could match up against this year's Pats, you're nuts. They'd be blown off the ball. The 70s Steelers were dominant but that was in their time. They are/were awesome but that was in their time.
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2007
  18. Deus Irae

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    Re: I Knew We not "Best Ever", go ahead hate me

    I posted this in another thread, but it clearly applies here. People really need to learn about football before they spout off.

  19. bclaff

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    Re: I Knew We not "Best Ever", go ahead hate me


    The Bears had this happen to them and lost to the Dolphins. The 72' Dolphins had no one to challenge them at all.

    Remember that we are also playing under a salary cap right now. That is what makes this year the most amazing ever.
  20. aluminum seats

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    Re: I Knew We not "Best Ever", go ahead hate me

    Also, learn how to write. Ugh.
  21. Pat the Pats Fan

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    Re: I Knew We not "Best Ever", go ahead hate me

    ROTFL......
  22. PatsFanSince74

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    Re: I Knew We not "Best Ever", go ahead hate me

    if the pats go 19--0, it is the greatest season ever played by an NFL team, simply because no team has ever done it.

    as to whether the "team" that played the "season" is the greatest ever, there can and will be a reasonable debate about that.

    my own view is that things change too much over the decades to say that any one team is/was the "greatest ever." i think we can say that there are several teams that belong in the discussion of the greatest team ever. if the Patriots win a fourth superbowl this year or next i would put that list as follows:

    Brown-Graham Browns
    Lombardi-Starr Packers
    Landry-Staubach Cowboys
    Noll-Bradshaw Steelers
    Walsh-Montana 49ers
    Belichick-Brady Patriots

    I don't put the 85 Bears or the Elway Bronco's on the list because they didn't dominate for an extended period of time. The toughest to leave off is the Aikman Cowboys, but I leave them off because it's about domination at the championship level over an extended period of time. i think that team missed its chance to be on this list due to the fight between jones and johnson.

    Brown went to 10 Championship Games in the old AAFC and NFL; Lombardi won five NFL titles, including two SB's; Landry went to five SB's (four with Staubach); Noll and Bradshaw won four rings; The Montana teams won four.

    I leave the Shula Dolphins off the list because his five SB appearances spanned three QB's and 15 Seasons.

    it's easier to say which is the greatest team of an era. on the above assumptions, I'd say:

    Best team before (overlapping) the Modern Era: Brown-Graham Browns
    Best team of the Modern Era before (overlapping) the SB era: Lombardi-Starr Packers
    Best team of the SB Era, before the cap and free agency: Noll-Bradshaw Steelers
    Best team of the SB Era, after the cap and free agency: Belichick-Brady Patriots.
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2007
  23. newton_tom_cat

    newton_tom_cat Rookie

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    Re: I Knew We not "Best Ever", go ahead hate me

    i dont disagree with your post. all i am saying is the single best team ever, that you would put on the field to win one game against any other team, is not the 07 patriots. but as a franchise, if we win SB this year (as i think we will) we make a good case for best dynasty ever. if we win this year + either one of next 2 years, then i think we close the book on best dynasty ever being pats.
  24. eric5280

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    Re: I Knew We not "Best Ever", go ahead hate me

    I don't see how this game negates that argument. Show me a team you would consider the "best ever" and I'll show you a team that has had several close games.
  25. Pats_AZ

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    Re: I Knew We not "Best Ever", go ahead hate me

    WHAT!!?? what other team would you put on the field to win that one game against any other team?? I can't think of any other team that i would want to play to win that one game. Tom Brady (possibly the best ever) our WR, the O-line is great for the most part and our defense even though is built with a lot of veterans still don't break they just get a little bendy but make the big plays consistantly. that with Belichick as the HC, i don't know what team your thinking about, but this IS the team to beat.
  26. scout

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    Re: I Knew We not "Best Ever", go ahead hate me

    Took the words right out of my mouth. If someone is so adamant about this year's pats not being the best, maybe that person can state who they feel is the best. That being one team they would put on the field for a one game championship.
  27. DaBruinz

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    Re: I Knew We not "Best Ever", go ahead hate me

    No you don't. You talk out your bung hole.

    Just like in the other threads.. particularly about Maroney.
  28. fleabassist1

    fleabassist1 Rookie

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    Re: I Knew We not "Best Ever", go ahead hate me

    We played our worst game for years last night and still beat the eagles.
  29. PatsFan#37

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    Re: I Knew We not "Best Ever", go ahead hate me

    I hate you.....:mad:
  30. FrontSeven

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    Re: I Knew We not "Best Ever", go ahead hate me

    You do realize that all of the "best teams ever" lost a game or two, right? Don't you think you're overlooking the small factor that none of them did or could show up and play their best game every time?

    The one team that did win them all, oh, come on, have you ever seen how many games they struggled with that year? Have you seen the level of competition that they enjoyed?

    You really need a personal adjustment of what it means for a team to be great. Great teams cannot be expected to never face new wrinkles, have an off night, and struggle. The point is that a very good Eagles team played their SB last night, and we still beat them.
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