I believe the Pats will make a big play for Peppers

[matt9071]

Re: I believe the Pats will make a big play for Peppers.

Jason Taylor is done as far as the Pats are concerned. It appears he wants to return to Miami, and perhaps he is asking for more than the team feels he is worth.

Here's why I think the Peppers trade is alive:

1. We've got the trade ammo to do it. But Jarvis Green has to be involved. He (and his salary) have to be involved in the trade. Package him along with one of the second rounders in 2010 to the Panthers, who are bereft a first round pick, and it should work.

2. Assuming Jarvis is dealt, the cap space should be adequate. Didn't we clear up $2.5 mil by trading Hobbs? Jarvis is due for $5+ mil. That should handle a reasonable contract should Peppers want to play ball.

3. If JT was in the cards, he will sign in the next day or so. I wouldn't hold my breath.

4. Was all this masterminded and plotted from the beginning? I say "no!" BB just makes deals (obtaining the second rounders, trading off Hobbs and his salary) and puts the team in a good position. It's like in chess: put your pieces on good squares and then good things happen. If they are on bad squares, well....good luck!

Still, it takes some cooperation from Peppers. He's got to sign for a discount and Carolina has to take Jarvis. Otherwise, it doesn't work.

I believe it will happen.

As much as I would love to have Peppers, its not going to happen. Honestly guys you don't trade away a player like Peppers, because they only come around once every ten years or so . If Peppers really wanted out he would have signed that tender, so teams could start negotiating with carolina. Peppers saying he wants out is most likely a ploy Imo to force carolina into giving him more money, and years on his next big pay day.

 

[TriplecHamp]

Re: I believe the Pats will make a big play for Peppers.

If you think Peppers should have signed his Tag than you dont know the ins and outs of the business aspect of football. Once Peppers signs his tag he loses ALL leverage. Go back and look at the Samuel Situation. He needs to wait until Carolina is pressured to work out a deal along the lines of "I sign the Tag and you agree to trade me".

 

[matt9071]

Re: I believe the Pats will make a big play for Peppers.

thats the problem carolina cant talk to any teams only his agent can and teams like NE don't talk to agents about trades they talk to the teams ownership.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: I believe the Pats will make a big play for Peppers.

Tom Brady makes in excess of $15M a year. Haynesworth makes $11M. Your post is irrelevant.

Brady's contract was for $10 million a year, not $15 million. His cap is just $15 million because he is in the next to last year of his deal and the Pats restructured his contract a couple of times to make it even more backloaded than it orginally was, but the guy signed a six year, $60 million deal and the Pats haven't increased his money. If Haynesworth sees the next to last year of his contract his cap number will be over $20 million.

Here is a link to Brady's last contract extension, explain how he is making $15 million a year under the deal:

Brady now among the NFL's highest-paid players - NFL - ESPN

You are confusing current cap hit with average salary per year.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: I believe the Pats will make a big play for Peppers.

If you think Peppers should have signed his Tag than you dont know the ins and outs of the business aspect of football. Once Peppers signs his tag he loses ALL leverage. Go back and look at the Samuel Situation. He needs to wait until Carolina is pressured to work out a deal along the lines of "I sign the Tag and you agree to trade me".

I agree. Peppers would be stupid to sign the tender until he gets a contract done with the team he is trading and the trade is finalized. The only franchised player who I have ever heard of signing the tender first was Cassel and other than a bogus report that he has a deal done, it looks like he screwed himself over because the Chiefs don't look like they are intent on giving him a new deal that he seeks.

The most overrated thing of this whole thing is that "Peppers has to sign the tender to get the deal done". It is amazing that no one in the media said "Hey, wait a minute! Jared Allen didn't sign his tender offer before the Chiefs and Vikes worked out trade last year. Neither did John Abraham when he was traded to Atlanta. Or Peerless Price for that matter." They have all bought into this whole Belichick line that nothing can get done until Peppers signs his tender offer eventhough it flies in the face of almost ever franchised player trade in NFL history.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: I believe the Pats will make a big play for Peppers.

thats the problem carolina cant talk to any teams only his agent can and teams like NE don't talk to agents about trades they talk to the teams ownership.

According to the letter of the law it is how it works. In practice, it is never followed and teams talk trade of franchise players all the time. The Eagles have even cut two franchised players because they didn't get any trade offers, but how could they have gotten trade offers when the players didn't sign the tags and had no intention to? What were the Eagles waiting for?

 

[Rob0729]

I think Peppers is unlikely at this point by the way. I don't think it is impossible though. Jason Taylor seems far more likely to be a Patriot than Peppers at this point. We probably won't know until late May or June though.

 

[matt9071]

Re: I believe the Pats will make a big play for Peppers.

According to the letter of the law it is how it works. In practice, it is never followed and teams talk trade of franchise players all the time. The Eagles have even cut two franchised players because they didn't get any trade offers, but how could they have gotten trade offers when the players didn't sign the tags and had no intention to? What were the Eagles waiting for?

Yea you make a good point, nice examples.

 

[mayoclinic]

Re: I believe the Pats will make a big play for Peppers.

If you think Peppers should have signed his Tag than you dont know the ins and outs of the business aspect of football. Once Peppers signs his tag he loses ALL leverage. Go back and look at the Samuel Situation. He needs to wait until Carolina is pressured to work out a deal along the lines of "I sign the Tag and you agree to trade me".

Here's what I think, for what it's worth:

1. Before the draft, it was difficult to envision the Pats trading for Peppers without giving up a huge amount in terms of picks and in terms of being able to fit in his salary.

2. After the draft, the Pats appear better positioned if they wanted to make a trade for someone - including but not limited to Peppers - than before. First, they have extra ammunition in the 2010 draft to use, along with so much depth on the roster that they could include some players and not miss a beat. Second, they've cut costs, including both Hobb's salary and the rookie pool cost. They've probably saved $3+ million. Add in a few million here or there and you're getting somewhere.

3. Carolina again has no 1st rounder in 2010. That has to increase their appetite for getting 2010 draft picks (and possibly some players) in return for Peppers.

4. I still can't figure out what Peppers' end game is. I understand that he gives up leverage by signing the tag, but he essentially has to sign the tag in order to get traded. And I'm still not sure what he wants - does he want the money (he turned down a long term contract from Carolina as well), or to play OLB in a 3-4, or both? What's driving him? I'm just not sure.

I'm not predicting that the Pats are going to get Peppers. I think it's a long shot. But I think that IF BB wanted to do it he is better positioned now than he was a week ago. He's rebuilt the secondary, added long term depth on the offensive and defensive lines, and added a nice ILB complement to Mayo and Guyton. The only real position worth spending on - other than resigning our own - is OLB.

As an aside - and I am NOT recommending this - does anyone think Kevin Faulk could possibly be a cap casualty, possibly included in a trade? Trading Faulk would free up nearly $3M in cap money. Add $2M for Green and the $3+ million saved in rookie signing money and by trading Hobbs, and you are starting to get into big money. Faulk will be 33 in June. He's one of my favorite Patriots - but so were Mike Vrabel and Rodney Harrison. Stephen Neal could be another cap casualty. Like Faulk, his contract expires in 2009, and he will be 33 this year and is injury prone. Cutting him saves another $2M. Not predicting either of those, but I never predicted Vrabel either. BB will be ruthless if he thinks it will better the team.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: I believe the Pats will make a big play for Peppers.

Tom Brady makes in excess of $15M a year. Haynesworth makes $11M. Your post is irrelevant.


Ron Brace isn't 10% the athlete that Wilfork is. Brace is a space clogging meatball. Wilfork is a force of nature.

Tom Brady does not now nor has he ever made $15M a year. His deal which is now in year 5 of 6 has averaged <$11M thru 5 seasons, and will finally drop to $10M if it's not extended before 2010.

 

[matt9071]

Re: I believe the Pats will make a big play for Peppers.

Here's what I think, for what it's worth:

1. Before the draft, it was difficult to envision the Pats trading for Peppers without giving up a huge amount in terms of picks and in terms of being able to fit in his salary.

2. After the draft, the Pats appear better positioned if they wanted to make a trade for someone - including but not limited to Peppers - than before. First, they have extra ammunition in the 2010 draft to use, along with so much depth on the roster that they could include some players and not miss a beat. Second, they've cut costs, including both Hobb's salary and the rookie pool cost. They've probably saved $3+ million. Add in a few million here or there and you're getting somewhere.

3. Carolina again has no 1st rounder in 2010. That has to increase their appetite for getting 2010 draft picks (and possibly some players) in return for Peppers.

4. I still can't figure out what Peppers' end game is. I understand that he gives up leverage by signing the tag, but he essentially has to sign the tag in order to get traded. And I'm still not sure what he wants - does he want the money (he turned down a long term contract from Carolina as well), or to play OLB in a 3-4, or both? What's driving him? I'm just not sure.

I'm not predicting that the Pats are going to get Peppers. I think it's a long shot. But I think that IF BB wanted to do it he is better positioned now than he was a week ago. He's rebuilt the secondary, added long term depth on the offensive and defensive lines, and added a nice ILB complement to Mayo and Guyton. The only real position worth spending on - other than resigning our own - is OLB.

As an aside - and I am NOT recommending this - does anyone think Kevin Faulk could possibly be a cap casualty, possibly included in a trade? Trading Faulk would free up nearly $3M in cap money. Add $2M for Green and the $3+ million saved in rookie signing money and by trading Hobbs, and you are starting to get into big money. Faulk will be 33 in June. He's one of my favorite Patriots - but so were Mike Vrabel and Rodney Harrison. Stephen Neal could be another cap casualty. Like Faulk, his contract expires in 2009, and he will be 33 this year and is injury prone. Cutting him saves another $2M. Not predicting either of those, but I never predicted Vrabel either. BB will be ruthless if he thinks it will better the team.

If Maroney or BJGE or anyone else could fill faulks shoes then yes, I can definitely see faulk getting cut. The business side of Football is starting to kick in to overdrive this year, and the pats just cant afford to keep all the fan favorites from the championship seasons. It sucks but its gotta happen.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: I believe the Pats will make a big play for Peppers.

Can we stop with the "Peppers will be a Pat" stuff already?

No kidding, even Carrucci who started it all has thrown in the towel. He said today on WEEI that Peppers agent has gone underground and has not spoken to anyone in over a month. Vic's no longer sure he has a clue what Peppers even really wants...or if Peppers has a clue what he wants. There is no overriding reason for him to leave the only team willing to pay him $16.7M this year or $12M per long term. No bad blood, just some sense that he wants a change of scenery after spending his entire life in Carolina...LOL

His time to leverage a trade has passed, that ship sailed once the draft commenced. Carolina has no reason to trade him now. They can't get back sufficient value this year.

 

[eom]

Re: I believe the Pats will make a big play for Peppers.

If Maroney or BJGE or anyone else could fill faulks shoes then yes, I can definitely see faulk getting cut. The business side of Football is starting to kick in to overdrive this year, and the pats just cant afford to keep all the fan favorites from the championship seasons. It sucks but its gotta happen.

yeah, I'd say that's a pretty big if.
I wouldn't see those guys getting cut, but I didn't see the hobbs trade coming, either, although at least you could see there was some kind of musical chairs going on at that position.

I guess I could see green being a kick in on a peppers deal, but I'd imagine the rest are pretty safe.
maybe we see a brady extension --- don't know what you can squeeze out of that.

not sure where the 3m savings comes from on the rookies, but the pats seem to like to spend the cap, and there's probably no rolling it over this season, so if you add the current 6m + green(??) + brady extension, I'd think you could work a peppers deal for some reasonable amount, assuming he really wants to take a reasonable amount.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: I believe the Pats will make a big play for Peppers.

I agree. Peppers would be stupid to sign the tender until he gets a contract done with the team he is trading and the trade is finalized. The only franchised player who I have ever heard of signing the tender first was Cassel and other than a bogus report that he has a deal done, it looks like he screwed himself over because the Chiefs don't look like they are intent on giving him a new deal that he seeks.

The most overrated thing of this whole thing is that "Peppers has to sign the tender to get the deal done". It is amazing that no one in the media said "Hey, wait a minute! Jared Allen didn't sign his tender offer before the Chiefs and Vikes worked out trade last year. Neither did John Abraham when he was traded to Atlanta. Or Peerless Price for that matter." They have all bought into this whole Belichick line that nothing can get done until Peppers signs his tender offer eventhough it flies in the face of almost ever franchised player trade in NFL history.

That is because either their agents brokered the deals or they demanded a trade and granted permission for their team to talk to potential suitors (as Edggerin James and Rosenhaus did with Polian in 2006 when they couldn't find any takers on their own...). Peppers hasn't done any of that in addition to not signing his tag. Remember in the Branch case BB gave Branch and his agent permission to seek a trading partner believing he wouldn't find one. Only he did and then they basically had to do a deal. If Peppers gave Carolina permission to talk to potential trading partners, they could - even absent signing the tag. He hasn't done that. In fact his own agent stated several weeks ago that absent them finding a deal his client would not have a problem with playing for Carolina under the tag as the highest paid player in football in 2009...

 

[matt9071]

Re: I believe the Pats will make a big play for Peppers.

That is because either their agents brokered the deals or they demanded a trade and granted permission for their team to talk to potential suitors (as Edggerin James and Rosenhaus did with Polian in 2006 when they couldn't find any takers on their own...). Peppers hasn't done any of that in addition to not signing his tag. Remember in the Branch case BB gave Branch and his agent permission to seek a trading partner believing he wouldn't find one. Only he did and then they basically had to do a deal. If Peppers gave Carolina permission to talk to potential trading partners, they could - even absent signing the tag. He hasn't done that. In fact his own agent stated several weeks ago that absent them finding a deal his client would not have a problem with playing for Carolina under the tag as the highest paid player in football in 2009...

Is Peppers thinking he can get 16 mill this year and hit the FA market next year at 30 ? Not a bad situation to be in I wouldn't sign the tender either.

 

[eom]

it's a very good situation to be in provided he doesn't blow out a knee in week 1, or mind playing in carolina.

anybody know the details of that jumbo contract he turned down already?

 

[patsox23]

Re: I believe the Pats will make a big play for Peppers.

As an aside - and I am NOT recommending this - does anyone think Kevin Faulk could possibly be a cap casualty, possibly included in a trade? Trading Faulk would free up nearly $3M in cap money.

Let me first just reiterate that Mayo is NOT recommending the following suggestion - because I find it irritating (and common) that posters ignore clearly stated caveats. To answer your question as directly as it was asked...

No. I don't think he could be a cap casualty. I do acknowledge the savings you point out, but I think Faulk remains a hugely key part of the offense and he showed very few signs of slowing down last year. Belichick loves him - though that wouldn't preclude #33 getting cut, mainly due to the fact that BB loves him because Faulk is versatile, humble, hard-working and, most importantly, especially to BB, he is RIDICULOUSLY productive.

 

[patsox23]

Re: I believe the Pats will make a big play for Peppers.

If Maroney or BJGE or anyone else could fill faulks shoes then yes, I can definitely see faulk getting cut. The business side of Football is starting to kick in to overdrive this year, and the pats just cant afford to keep all the fan favorites from the championship seasons. It sucks but its gotta happen.

Once again people seem to think Faulk is some sort of binky-level player. Kevin Faulk is arguably one of the top 5 most important offensive players on the team and one of the top 3 in terms of production-per-play. He is VITAL and he's not going anywhere. His "fan favorite" status, and I consider that premise dubious to begin with, has nothing to do with it.

 

[moosekill]

Re: I believe the Pats will make a big play for Peppers.

Once again people seem to think Faulk is some sort of binky-level player. Kevin Faulk is arguably one of the top 5 most important offensive players on the team and one of the top 3 in terms of production-per-play. He is VITAL and he's not going anywhere. His "fan favorite" status, and I consider that premise dubious to begin with, has nothing to do with it.

Lol until we wake up tomorrow and find BB cut him, or traded him for 2 5th rounders.

Seriously though, if you think anyone on this roster isn't replaceable you probably haven't been paying much attention this offseason, or in years past (Lawyer Malloy waves to you). The Patriots will cut anyone if they think they become a better team by so doing.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

What is all this talk about a "binky"? What the hell is a binky?