Hurley: Don't count out Welker in 2010

[efin98]

I don't know when Welker will be back, although I hope they take it as slowly as is needed in order to avoid re-injury or injury to other areas as a result of the primary injury, but Brady wasn't "back" even by the end of the season, which was well over a year post-op.

Right, he wasn't "back" out on the field throwing up top seven stats in all major offensive categories. That must have been some other guy wearing #12 for the Patriots

 

[Deus Irae]

Brady's knee was fine. In a way it's more difficult for a QB, he doesn't have to cut as much but he has to stand in against the unexpected hit more.

I'm tired of typing the same thing but a great rehab with no setbacks gets Welker back by opening day if he so chooses. People will dispute it but it's simply fact. Maybe he'll have a setback. Maybe the Patriots will take it slow as we have Edelman and the new TE to catch some of the short passes. But you can come back to play in 7 months. Braylon Edwards did it and that was a few years ago. Thomas Davis is only 2 months ahead of Welker and he was at (non contact) practice today with the full expectation of starting training camp.

1.) Brady's knee clearly was not fine.

2.) It's not more difficult for a QB, as the article referenced points out.

3.) 2 months is a significant time difference.

4.) Braylon Edwards timetable has been the exception rather than the rule, and he was injured earlier than was Welker. (Edwards had his surgery a month earlier than did Welker.)


Again, I don't know when Welker will be back. I don't know what his initial post-op schedule was. I don't know whether or not he's on schedule, ahead of schedule or behind schedule. I do know that the reporters I've seen talking about him, and those I've read writing about him, have anticipated him at least going PUP.

 

[Deus Irae]

Right, he wasn't "back" out on the field throwing up top seven stats in all major offensive categories. That must have been some other guy wearing #12 for the Patriots

What does one have to do with the other? Are you going to claim that football players are only out on the field at 100%?

 

[BelichickFan]

1.) Brady's knee clearly was not fine.

I disagree.

2.) It's not more difficult for a QB, as the article referenced points out.

I didn't mean to say it is, but it's clearly different. For a receiver the health of the knee is more important, for a QB the health of the mind worrying about being hit is more important.

3.) 2 months is a significant time difference.

Over 2 months to training camp . . .

4.) Braylon Edwards timetable has been the exception rather than the rule, and he was injured earlier than was Welker. (Edwards had his surgery a month earlier than did Welker.)

Edwards had surgery a month earlier and he played in the first PRE-SEASON game which is a month before the first regular season game.

 

[efin98]

What does one have to do with the other?

You claimed he "wasn't back", his statistics state otherwise.

Are you going to claim that football players are only out on the field at 100%?

I am claiming that he was back out there on the field putting up top seven statistics that. He would not have been able to do that unless his knee was fully healed and he was back at 100%.

Your OPINION is that he wasn't fully healed. But his play stated otherwise. He was back, his knee was healthy and fully healed.

 

[Deus Irae]

You claimed he "wasn't back", his statistics state otherwise.



I am claiming that he was back out there on the field putting up top seven statistics that. He would not have been able to do that unless his knee was fully healed and he was back at 100%.

Your OPINION is that he wasn't fully healed. But his play stated otherwise. He was back, his knee was healthy and fully healed.

How the hell did his inconsistent play state otherwise? Was it all his great runs? Was it the way he ran that ball into the Baltimore endzone? Was it the amazing way he was maneuvering in the pocket as if he'd never been injured, or the amazing way he was able to move out of the pocket and still get the job done on the run, like he did against New Orleans?


Nope. It clearly wasn't any of those. And that's because he wasn't back.

 

[efin98]

How the hell did his inconsistent play state otherwise? Was it all his great runs? Was it the way he ran that ball into the Baltimore endzone? Was it the amazing way he was maneuvering in the pocket as if he'd never been injured, or the amazing way he was able to move out of the pocket and still get the job done on the run, like he did against New Orleans?

Nope. It clearly wasn't any of those. And that's because he wasn't back.

So he wasn't out there on the field throwing his second highest completion percentage year, his second highest yardage year, his third highest completions and attempts year, throwing his second highest TD total in his second highest QB rating year.

Nope, he didn't do any of that...nope he wasn't back to his old self. Nope, having your second best year statistically isn't back to form


But if you believe Wes Welker won't be back because you believe Brady "wasn't back" then so be it because if you refuse to believe what he did on the field as proof that he was back then you won't believe anything...let Welker prove you right or wrong in September.

 

[Deus Irae]

I disagree.

Given that it was abundantly clear through his play and his movement on the field, I don't know what more to talk about on this topic.

I didn't mean to say it is, but it's clearly different. For a receiver the health of the knee is more important, for a QB the health of the mind worrying about being hit is more important.

Cutting and the like are the last parts to come back to speed in the recovery process, which is why it's generally easier for a QB to return fast than for a WR. Even then, we've seen it take its toll on the QBs. Brady sure saw it.

Over 2 months to training camp . . .

I'm not sure how this is relevant. You pointed to one player that you claim is on target for training camp. I noted that said player has a 2 month head start on Welker. How many months remain to training camp doesn't really enter into that. That 2 month difference is there regardless.

Edwards had surgery a month earlier and he played in the first PRE-SEASON game which is a month before the first regular season game.

Your plan doesn't envision Welker matching Edwards' recovery. It envisions him bettering it by up to a full month or more, unless you think that Welker can just skip all of training camp up until the exhibition games, and still be ready for week 1. I'm not sure that Belichick is normally that reckless.

But, hey, medicine continues to advance, so we'll see. I'd love to see Welker being Welker on week one.

 

[Deus Irae]

So he wasn't out there on the field throwing his second highest completion percentage year, his second highest yardage year, his third highest completions and attempts year, throwing his second highest TD total in his second highest QB rating year.

Nope, he didn't do any of that...nope he wasn't back to his old self. Nope, having your second best year statistically isn't back to form


But if you believe Wes Welker won't be back because you believe Brady "wasn't back" then so be it because if you refuse to believe what he did on the field as proof that he was back then you won't believe anything...let Welker prove you right or wrong in September.

The Patriots had the #6 rated offense and the #5 rated defense, too. Are we now going to pretend that such a rating was exactly reflective of where they truly were?

 

[efin98]

The Patriots had the #6 rated offense and the #5 rated defense, too. Are we now going to pretend that such a rating was exactly reflective of where they truly were?

Are you going to pretend that any of that has anything whatsoever to do with Welker's ability to return from his injury just because you believe Brady wasn't fully back despite his statistical great year?

Believe whatever you want DI, we've diverted enough off the topic. Blather on in your usual way to get the last word but I'm done replying to you about this.






The best evidence in favor of Welker's return during the season is the precedent set in the case of everyone's favorite 2nd round WR flop...He tore his ACL in the AFC Championship Game in 2007 and was PUPed until Week 10 and saw action in two games....despite the naysayers, this alone should be encouraging news for the possibility of Welker returning.

 

[patriotscpfc]

I don't think there was anything wrong with Brady's knee.

It was his head. And after the injury, you can understand why he would have issues pounding his leg into the ground with players around him

 

[DaBruinz]

How the hell did his inconsistent play state otherwise? Was it all his great runs? Was it the way he ran that ball into the Baltimore endzone? Was it the amazing way he was maneuvering in the pocket as if he'd never been injured, or the amazing way he was able to move out of the pocket and still get the job done on the run, like he did against New Orleans?


Nope. It clearly wasn't any of those. And that's because he wasn't back.

1) Brady's "inconsistent play" was as much of a product of the inconsistent O-line play (and possibly more so) than it was his knee

2) Mentioning Brady running is silly. Anyone who watched the draft, caught the Brady's combine recap with him running the 40. It was everything I could do to stop from laughing at how badly he ran it. Brady's never been a very mobile QB except for his pocket presence. And that was affected more so by the O-line play.

3) Anyone who has had a major injury to an extremity will have a major mental block that they will have to over-come. And I don't care how "tough" a person is prior to an injury, the injury tests that toughness. And, until you feel 100% confident in it, you will limit yourself. Some players never recover. Others recover just fine. But it's a matter of time. It was clear to ME that Brady's confidence got better as the year went along, but the play of the O-line didn't.

 

[BelichickFan]

Your plan doesn't envision Welker matching Edwards' recovery. It envisions him bettering it by up to a full month or more, unless you think that Welker can just skip all of training camp up until the exhibition games, and still be ready for week 1. I'm not sure that Belichick is normally that reckless.

First, we have no idea how much before Game 1 of Preseason that Edwards could have played. Second, he was playing in Training Camp before the first Preseason game. Third, his schedule shows a WR can be back on this timeline. Maybe they would hold Welker out a week or two of the season but Edwards shows WITHOUT DOUBT that Welker does not need to be PUPed if the rehab goes with no setbacks.

 

[signbabybrady]

1.) Brady's knee clearly was not fine.

I fully disagree with that. As pointed out statistically he had one of his best seasons ever. He also had a shoulder injury, hand injury, and rib injuries to deal with during the season so I am not sure how you can equate any of his persumed decrease in mobility to the knee only. The simple fact is that Toms knee was more than fine. It was good enough for him to compete in the most physical sport in the world.

 

[Kontradiction]

You can not expect to see him until then. I'm a realist though. I know that everyone is different. I know that Welker was playing injured all year to begin with (Shoulder). And that him hurting his knee at the end of the year was terrible. However, I also know that he's already jogging and might even be running. There were no complications to his surgery.

Welker's game does not solely rely on him making extremely aggressive cuts. He also uses great head fakes.

Why should anyone concede that any part of Welker's game will be affected? Because it's your assumption that he'll be like every other NORMAL person and not like a the well-defined athlete that he is. People need to be reminded that Jerry Rice was able to come back in 6 months from his ACL tear. And that was back in 1989 or whenever. This is 20 years later with numerous advances that are drastically less invasive and all the person to heal more quickly and have the joint be stronger than it was prior to the injury.

For one, jogging and running without pads and football conditions is different than playing in an actual game. It's great that he's already doing that but it has no bearing whatsoever on what he's actually going to be able to accomplish in a game setting. Secondly, I never said that Welker's game SOLELY relied on making hard, aggressive cuts. However, you would be hard pressed to not admit that this area is what makes Welker so dangerous on the field. He relies on them to shake defenders and also gain extra yardage and he's one of the best in the NFL at doing so. Whether we like it or not, this part of his game will be negatively impacted. At the most it will be physically impacted and, at the very least, it will be mental hurdle for him to get over (much like it was with Brady last season). Third of all, I'm aware of what Rice accomplished. However all athletes are different. If Welker can recover like Rice did, I will be ecstatic. But I'm not expecting it.

 

[Deus Irae]

1) Brady's "inconsistent play" was as much of a product of the inconsistent O-line play (and possibly more so) than it was his knee

You are entitled to your opinion.

2) Mentioning Brady running is silly. Anyone who watched the draft, caught the Brady's combine recap with him running the 40. It was everything I could do to stop from laughing at how badly he ran it. Brady's never been a very mobile QB except for his pocket presence. And that was affected more so by the O-line play.

Yes pointing out how badly Brady moved on his leg when running is an odd thing to do when talking about a leg injury.... :bricks:

3) Anyone who has had a major injury to an extremity will have a major mental block that they will have to over-come. And I don't care how "tough" a person is prior to an injury, the injury tests that toughness. And, until you feel 100% confident in it, you will limit yourself. Some players never recover. Others recover just fine. But it's a matter of time. It was clear to ME that Brady's confidence got better as the year went along, but the play of the O-line didn't.

I understand injuries all too well, particularly leg injuries. Brady didn't fully recover from his last season. Hopefully, he'll be at or near 100% for the start of the 2010 season.

 

[Coach42]

You are entitled to your opinion.



Yes pointing out how badly Brady moved on his leg when running is an odd thing to do when talking about a leg injury.... :bricks:



I understand injuries all too well, particularly leg injuries. Brady didn't fully recover from his last season. Hopefully, he'll be at or near 100% for the start of the 2010 season.

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Deus Irae]

First, we have no idea how much before Game 1 of Preseason that Edwards could have played. Second, he was playing in Training Camp before the first Preseason game. Third, his schedule shows a WR can be back on this timeline. Maybe they would hold Welker out a week or two of the season but Edwards shows WITHOUT DOUBT that Welker does not need to be PUPed if the rehab goes with no setbacks.

What Edwards shows is that, if Welker matches Edwards and can use the Exhibitions for his training camp, he would be back for week 5.

 

[Deus Irae]

Thanks for clearing that up.

It was all for you.

 

[BelichickFan]

What Edwards shows is that, if Welker matches Edwards and can use the Exhibitions for his training camp, he would be back for week 5.

That's just stupid but I've argued about this enough.