How important is a downfield threat?

[DonBlackmon55]

Brady throw for the second most yards in NFL history without a so called "deep threat" what they need is star RB who can run the ball vs a 4 and 5 man front what good is a fast WR if teams can drop back 7 and 8 and cover all day

we can all thank pile of indiana cow manure Bill Polian for having changes made to the rules after his colts WR's were getting smacked. He turned it from NFL to NTL(No Touch League). Then, all we needed was a meglomaniac like God-ell to become Da Camish, and what you have today is basically a mickey mouse passing league where QB are slinging for 5000 yards with eyes closed. If I wanted to watch CFL, I'd go across the border and get season tix to the Saskatawan Roughriders. But I digress.

There's no value to a RB now, zipppppppp. RB position is a dying breed until rules are changed to bring scoring down, but Czar God-ell will never let that happen now, since Offense is sexy for fans, and ratings and $$$$$$$

Quick, name me starting RB for Packers, Saints, Lions ????? QB's for these teams were 40TD, 4900+ yards.

 

[DonBlackmon55]

Imagine what GRONK and Hernandez could do if the nearest safety is 20 yards away. . . .

Gronk would start yellin YO SOY FIESTA !

Seriously, we need to sign Marques Colston. Enough of these over the hill retread WR trades

 

[Ring 6]

The Pats need a deep threat, but I think a lot of people here have the wrong idea when they think of a deep threat. Elite speed is nice, but if it came down to speed, then we'd see Underwood and Slater catching bombs down the field. A deep threat for the Pats has to be able to beat guys 30 yards down the field, plus be a good enough route runner to do all the underneath stuff. Otherwise, he's not going to make it on the field any more than Underwood this season. That deep threat basically has to be a faster version of Branch. That's why it's not as easy as picking some random guy that runs a 4.3 in the middle of the draft.

Brandon Lloyd ran a 4.62 as a draft prospect. He'd still make a fine deep threat for the Pats.

Its not really a deep threat that is the issue. You can send anyone deep and they have to be covered.
What is really needed is a WR that can be dangerous in the intermediate areas. Deep outs, skinny posts, in cuts, and to be able to make plays outside the numbers. 50 yard passes are overrated and they are much more rarely completed than anyone thinks.
The idea of getting a WR to run fly patterns drawing coverage is incorrect.
What is needed (and with the success of the offense needed is not quite the right word) is an outside threat that can exploit the areas that a defense will leave open trying to take away Welker, Gronk and Hernandez. Our offense is very effective because these 3 guys can do a lot to take advantage of teams trying to take away the other 2, but adding a WR with a skill set we don't have can only help.
Deep threat is the wrong term. Outside WR is.

 

[patsfan-1982]

You build a team to win in January and compete with tough teams, not to just put up stats. It's clear as day that good defenses CAN shutdown our current offense because they really only have to worry about 20 yards inside the numbers. A legit deepthreat on the outside would force the defense to back up and out, which obviously helps open the inside and running game.

I don't understand why you wouldn't want to address a hole in our roster just because it's on offense. We don't have a SINGLE legit outside receiver going into next year. That's as problem.

it's not that i dont want a downfield threat i just dont think it will fix the problem i think they will still have a hard time puting up 20 points vs a good pass rush that can rush 4 or 5.

for me they need to fix the defense thats #1 and #2 get a legit RB and a KR/PR then a fast WR not a star some one like Jerome Simpson or Josh Morgan

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Very important..can't go another year without one

 

[Deus Irae]

They need a receiver who is a real threat outside the hash marks in the medium to deep range. It really doesn't mean Brady starts tossing bombs all the time. It means that opposing defenses have to game plan to stop the threat. That they have to spread their coverage sideline to sideline and their safeties can't camp out in the middle. A real deep threat gives Welker, Gronk and Hernandez a whole lot of extra space to work in.

Once Moss was gone, so was the middle-deep threat. That split this board for a while, but most of the people who insisted that the middle-deep threat was not needed have come around at least somewhat. I see Brandon Lloyd as a fairly strong possibility given his ties to McDaniels, and I see Mike Wallace as the fantasy 'get' if the Steelers only tender him with a first round pick.

 

[Deus Irae]

it's not that i dont want a downfield threat i just dont think it will fix the problem i think they will still have a hard time puting up 20 points vs a good pass rush that can rush 4 or 5.

for me they need to fix the defense thats #1 and #2 get a legit RB and a KR/PR then a fast WR not a star some one like Jerome Simpson or Josh Morgan

Jerome Simpson?

Simpson was indicted on one count of trafficking marijuana in excess of eight ounces. An arraignment date in Kenton Circuit Court was not immediately set. The charge is punishable by one to five years in prison.

Federal authorities swooped on his Crestview Hills townhouse in September and seized a package containing 2.5 pounds of California marijuana being shipped to the residence. Inside the home investigators found about six more pounds of marijuana, scales and smoking devices.

Bengals' Jerome Simpson indicted on drug charge

 

[patsfan-1982]

Jerome Simpson?



Bengals' Jerome Simpson indicted on drug charge

wow did not know that then Josh Morgan it is lol

 

[skinnydog]

Once Moss was gone, so was the middle-deep threat. That split this board for a while, but most of the people who insisted that the middle-deep threat was not needed have come around at least somewhat. I see Brandon Lloyd as a fairly strong possibility given his ties to McDaniels, and I see Mike Wallace as the fantasy 'get' if the Steelers only tender him with a first round pick.

Exactly. Yes, the Pats adding game during the regular season was amazing to watch most of the time, but then we hit the playoffs and things change. Yes, the refs let defenses get away with a little more contact, but more important is that about a half dozen teams year in, year out ca handle a high flyin passing attack like the Pats. We don't see them 16 weeks a year, but those teams end up in the playoffs. Those defenses are good enough and well coached enough to provide tight coverage and a good pass rush. With the middle to deep threat especially outside the numbers making them cover our receivers sideline to sideline it is that much easier.

 

[borg]

With Gronk, Hernandez, Welker and two LEGIT new pieces...a deep threat that pulls the safety with him and a 3 down RB that LBs have to focus on.....wow....how wide open would the field be for Brady. Come on BB....Giselle needs this bad

 

[Rob0729]

Down the field threat is overrated. No team throws down the field more than a handful of times a game.

What this team needs more is a consistent outside threat. With the three best receivers on the team being more of inside runners, it allows the opposing defense to flood the inside of the field. Give them a legitimate outside threat and it opens up pockets everywhere.

 

[patsderoer]

Not to mention that Brady has a horrible percentage on throws caught after 30yards. Throwing deep is certainly not one of Brady's strengths, its more like a liability.

A reliable outside receiver, with good hands, who knows how to get open, who can understand the Patriots offensive system, that is what is needed.

And a powerback like Hillis would certainly help. Brady is not getting any younger, and a good running game, to help control the clock and keep the defence off the field, is needed very much.

 

[upstater1]

Down the field threat is overrated. No team throws down the field more than a handful of times a game.

What this team needs more is a consistent outside threat. With the three best receivers on the team being more of inside runners, it allows the opposing defense to flood the inside of the field. Give them a legitimate outside threat and it opens up pockets everywhere.

Brady would love a guy like Hakeem Nicks. A guy that can catch the ball 15 yards downfield near the sidelines would help a lot.

 

[skinnydog]

Brady would love a guy like Hakeem Nicks. A guy that can catch the ball 15 yards downfield near the sidelines would help a lot.

It's be nice if he could make a sideling throw to a wideout taller than 5'9" who can fight for the ball in the air.

 

[Deus Irae]

The football field is 300 feet by 160 feet. On any given snap against the Patriots, most teams can largely ignore (relatively speaking) the area outside the numbers beyond 10 yards. They also only have to really focus on defending about 25 yards of depth.

That means that opposing defenses are only stuck having to defend about 9300 ((160 * 30) + (100 * 45)) square feet, while teams facing opponents with guys who really threaten middle-deep are defending about 19200 square feet (160 across for the whole distance, and 40 yards down the field)*. It's not surprising, therefore, that teams with good defenses can clamp down pretty well against the Patriots, because they're already good and now they're able to focus on defending a smaller area. It's as if Brady is throwing to a modified red zone all game long.

It's a lot like what teams were able to do to the Jets last year.


Note: I think I got the numbers correct. My apologies if there are any errors. Also, the depths listed are ballpark and not meant to be 100% hard and firm, but were used to show the significant difference in coverage area.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

If you listen the stone head Felger, Moss was not missed. I giggle at his epic failure to comprehend what Moss did for Brady and Welker. I take solace in knowing I and most on this forum have more football knowledge than that pompous chortle head does. I agree things were breaking down with Randy but someone who can come close to his roll makes the passing "O" unstoppable. Yes a major need.
DW Toys

Where you been hiding on the road to the super bowl, cousin?? LOL

It's not a downfield thread, been there done that didn't win then, either. It's an outside the numbers threat, like Chad was supposed to be. And that is what Felger says they still need. You can stretch the field horizontally as well as vertically, and unless you want to get your QB killed that is probably preferable.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Not to mention that Brady has a horrible percentage on throws caught after 30yards. Throwing deep is certainly not one of Brady's strengths, its more like a liability.

A reliable outside receiver, with good hands, who knows how to get open, who can understand the Patriots offensive system, that is what is needed.

And a powerback like Hillis would certainly help. Brady is not getting any younger, and a good running game, to help control the clock and keep the defence off the field, is needed very much.

Hillis is a turd and he's not coming here with Josh as the OC anyway.

 

[JackBauer]

The football field is 300 feet by 160 feet. On any given snap against the Patriots, most teams can largely ignore (relatively speaking) the area outside the numbers beyond 10 yards. They also only have to really focus on defending about 25 yards of depth.

That means that opposing defenses are only stuck having to defend about 9300 ((160 * 30) + (100 * 45)) square feet, while teams facing opponents with guys who really threaten middle-deep are defending about 19200 square feet (160 across for the whole distance, and 40 yards down the field)*. It's not surprising, therefore, that teams with good defenses can clamp down pretty well against the Patriots, because they're already good and now they're able to focus on defending a smaller area. It's as if Brady is throwing to a modified red zone all game long.

It's a lot like what teams were able to do to the Jets last year.


Note: I think I got the numbers correct. My apologies if there are any errors. Also, the depths listed are ballpark and not meant to be 100% hard and firm, but were used to show the significant difference in coverage area.

I like this. Great point. I wonder if the lack of a dynamic threat from the backfield compounds this at all?

 

[UK_Pat37]

During the 2011 off season I said the need was overrated...a guy can back track and admit he was wrong...and I was wrong.

Brady excelled in 2007 with the deep ball because he had the weapons to do it. Moss was a rare player obviously, but he could go up and get the ball when it was put up there and wasn't afraid to fight for it.,

Welker, for all his upside, he is TERRIBLE handling aggressive man on man corners who get physical with him...terrible is a justified word IMO. He hinders us in those situations as much as he helps us in others and Branch is no better. They can't go up and get a ball either due to their size.

IMO Sanu or Criner (Criner will probably present us with more value) are ideal picks. Tall, bulky, good route runners who can go deep and over the middle. What Criner lacks in speed he makes up for in route running and is a crisp runner who gets good separation out of his breaks. He has great hand and body control and can adjust well to the ball in the air. Sanu has question marks about his hands and sometimes lets the ball get too close to his body whilst making the catch but that's easily coached out of you.

We desperately need a deep threat...it would make this offense insanely good.

 

[patsderoer]

Hillis is a turd and he's not coming here with Josh as the OC anyway.

Turd LOL. He put up great numbers in the toughest division to run against in the NFL, with no passing game. Browns passing was a joke 2 years ago and it still is. He was a monster near the goal line.

The Pats badly need a powerback to control the clock, to keep their defense off the field, to at least make the opposing defense respect the running game. A great running game would be very helpful for Brady. It would keep him from burning out in the regular season and having nothing left for the playoffs. It would ensure that Brady stays at least 1 year or 2 longer at the top.