How important is a downfield threat?

[SeymourTrophies]

McDaniels actually ran the ball reasonably well in 2008. Cassel played out of the play action A LOT. Here's hoping there's more of that variety.

Brady's deep ball was good when he had someone to throw to deep. The last time we had a somewhat consistent deep threat was last year with Brandon Tate, and I pair the words consistent with deep threat very loosely. He was just faster than everyone. Maybe that's where we need to go with that.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Turd LOL. He put up great numbers in the toughest division to run against in the NFL, with no passing game. Browns passing was a joke 2 years ago and it still is. He was a monster near the goal line.

The Pats badly need a powerback to control the clock, to keep their defense off the field, to at least make the opposing defense respect the running game. A great running game would be very helpful for Brady. It would keep him from burning out in the regular season and having nothing left for the playoffs. It would ensure that Brady stays at least 1 year or 2 longer at the top.

Two years ago was two years ago. He was a turd this year both on the field due to injury which was to be expected due to his game and off it in whining about his contract. Josh traded him away in Denver.

 

[Lowercaseg]

I agree with those that say the Pats need a WR that can leap and attack the football when making catches. I also agree that it's not just about a WR being a deep threat but about being a sideline threat and generally a threat all over the field.

If Brady had a WR, instead of Branch and Ocho, that has the make-up to beat press/man coverage, leap and catch balls over defenders, and adjust to catch balls that are not perfectly thrown, then Brady would likely have a much better % when throwing the mid to long ball. He doesn't have that receiver now.

It's not only about a deep threat, it's about an athletic WR that can make all the catches, has speed and quicks, good height and the ability to make the tough catches. A WR with those abilities makes his QB better because the QB doesn't always have to throw a perfect ball. This type of WR helps his QB by attacking the football by going up and getting it. Brandon Llyod's and Colston's Youtube highlights show these types of skills. The Pats have to get this type of WR.

 

[Deus Irae]

I like this. Great point. I wonder if the lack of a dynamic threat from the backfield compounds this at all?

I'd look at a couple of points in order to respond to this, because I see 3 areas where it would have significant potential impact:

1.) Without the middle-deep threat, teams don't have to worry about backing their safeties off. Well, without a dynamic threat from the RB position, they don't have to worry about stacking the box, either. That means that Brady's not going to get the throwing advantages that accompany 8 men in the box.

2.) With a middle-deep threat, teams would want to focus their safeties on keeping the deep, and middle-wide, stuff from getting hit. Adding a dynamic RB would mean that they'd have to split their focus, because focusing deep would mean a slower response to the run and, consequently, more yardage and opportunities for that RB to run wild. This would lead to both increased effectiveness with the play action for the WRs and better running lanes for the RB.

3.) As we see with Woodhead and would see even more with a truly 'all around' type of RB, having a RB who can be a threat in the passing game leads to both an extra player for defenders to worry about and extra square footage to defend due to the threat of screen passes (You may remember my main gripe about how they used Maroney being the lack of his use in the passing game).

I could be missing something, or overhyping one of the above 3, but that's my first take on it.

 

[makoute]

You build a team to win in January and compete with tough teams, not to just put up stats. It's clear as day that good defenses CAN shutdown our current offense because they really only have to worry about 20 yards inside the numbers. A legit deepthreat on the outside would force the defense to back up and out, which obviously helps open the inside and running game.

I don't understand why you wouldn't want to address a hole in our roster just because it's on offense. We don't have a SINGLE legit outside receiver going into next year. That's as problem.

They lost with Randy Moss, the best deep threat at the time.

 

[patsderoer]

Two years ago was two years ago. He was a turd this year both on the field due to injury which was to be expected due to his game and off it in whining about his contract. Josh traded him away in Denver.

His injury was to be expected, of course, when he was more than half of Browns offense and he was run into the ground. Because Browns' passing was a complete joke, teams would just stack the box against them, and Hillis still put up great numbers. I could only imagine would he could do having the Pats passing offense beside him.
This guy is still young, just entering his prime, a good catcher in the backfield, good blocker, surely would love to be on a contender (who wouldnt), can push the pile on his own, it takes more than 1 guy to bring him down, monster at the goal line. Really everything you need from a powerback.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

His injury was to be expected, of course, when he was more than half of Browns offense and he was run into the ground. Because Browns' passing was a complete joke, teams would just stack the box against them, and Hillis still put up great numbers. I could only imagine would he could do having the Pats passing offense beside him.
This guy is still young, just entering his prime, a good catcher in the backfield, good blocker, surely would love to be on a contender (who wouldnt), can push the pile on his own, it takes more than 1 guy to bring him down, monster at the goal line. Really everything you need from a powerback.

Josh doesn't like his game. What part of that don't you understand?

 

[Deus Irae]

His injury was to be expected, of course, when he was more than half of Browns offense and he was run into the ground. Because Browns' passing was a complete joke, teams would just stack the box against them, and Hillis still put up great numbers. I could only imagine would he could do having the Pats passing offense beside him.
This guy is still young, just entering his prime, a good catcher in the backfield, good blocker, surely would love to be on a contender (who wouldnt), can push the pile on his own, it takes more than 1 guy to bring him down, monster at the goal line. Really everything you need from a powerback.

He's a whiny pain in the ass who's only played one 16 game season, who's teammates questioned him about milking an injury because of his contract situation, and who's had fumble issues. Shockingly, those aren't qualities that BB looks for in a running back.

 

[Satchboogie3]

They lost with Randy Moss, the best deep threat at the time.

Why do people keep using this as a reason against a deep threat. Correlation doesn't = causation. Moss played WELL in that game, especially late. The problems were the offensive line and Brady's accuracy due to the injury.

I don't think anyone here is trying to claim that all we need is a tall, speed receiver and we win Superbowl XLVII. It's simply a hole on the roster that needs to be addressed and will only help make the offense more productive.

 

[patsderoer]

He's a whiny pain in the ass who's only played one 16 game seasonm, who's teammates questioned him about milking an injury because of his contract situation, and who's had fumble issues. Shockingly, those aren't qualities that BB looks for in a running back.

He only played one 16 game season because he was not given the chance to prove himself before and he had a injury after he was run into the ground two years ago, in the toughest division to run against in the NFL.

AP also had fumble issues, shockingly he's still highly regarded.

You got that right that he's a pain in the ass, he's a pain in the ass and in other places for anyone who tries to bring him down alone. A powerback that would be a perfect match for the Pats.

 

[upstater1]

Randy Moss was on the field with Ben Watson in 2007.

And he played very well.

Randy Moss was a shadow of himself when he shared the field with Gronk and Hernandez last year.

 

[mgteich]

Interesting logic.

Touchdowns are overrated. No team scores touchdowns more than a handful of times a game.

Yes, what this team could use is a down the field threat who would command double coverare and would thrown too a handful of times a game. We started 2011 with Price and Ochocinco. We'll see who Belichick tries in 2012.

Down the field threat is overrated. No team throws down the field more than a handful of times a game.

What this team needs more is a consistent outside threat. With the three best receivers on the team being more of inside runners, it allows the opposing defense to flood the inside of the field. Give them a legitimate outside threat and it opens up pockets everywhere.

 

[Betterthanmost]

I just want someone who will be able to understand Brady and also can catch the ball. The last point is very important to me. Someone to catch the ball.

 

[Elijah T.]

As I'm sure other posters have stated, you want a wideout that makes you defend the entire field from boundary to boundary.

If we just needed a guy to get deep then Tiquan Underwood would be fine for that as he can run a sub 4.4 forty in a straight line.

You want a player that can stretch the sideline but also run the hitch, ins, outs, curls, and crosses....Jerry Rice and Terrell Owens in his prime are perfect examples of this. They had 4.55-4-65 straight line speed but ran great routes and understood how to leverage the field. They were also effective 'deep threats' because you had to defend all the routes playing against them, they weren't one dimensional...You were always cautious of the inside routes, and susceptible to the double moves.

Marques Colston, Brandon Lloyd, and Reggie Wayne all do this very well.

Mohamed Sanu rookie out of Rutgers does this well also.

 

[patsfan13]

I agree with those that say the Pats need a WR that can leap and attack the football when making catches. I also agree that it's not just about a WR being a deep threat but about being a sideline threat and generally a threat all over the field.

It's not only about a deep threat, it's about an athletic WR that can make all the catches, has speed and quicks, good height and the ability to make the tough catches. A WR with those abilities makes his QB better because the QB doesn't always have to throw a perfect ball. This type of WR helps his QB by attacking the football by going up and getting it. Brandon Llyod's and Colston's Youtube highlights show these types of skills. The Pats have to get this type of WR.

True we need to make teams defend the whole field not just the areas between the numbers.

We have signed FA's and drafted players, without a lot of success. The issue is the need to read the d with Brady and make the correct decision on EVERY play. That is why Branch & Welker have been successful in this system, and even proven pros like J Galloway and Ocho have failed.

Moss clearly had the football IQ and got the system right away. The issue came up when he ONLY wanted to work outside the lines and run just 1 route and Brady felt pressured to get him a couple of balls no matter what, disrupting the O as a whole.

Lloyd is THE BEST pick available on the FA market, better than Jackson or Colson or whoever.

The reason is we know he can flourish in this system and he wants to run the whole route tree, we can't say that for certain for any of the other receivers who haven't played in this system. The fact that he wants to follow J McD (and said so publicly before the Pats hired him) is a another plus.


HE will make teams defend the whole field and help Brady, Gronk, AH and Welker in the process.

Along with this we need someone (Vareen ?) who can be productive and a threat out of the backfield, that would make this O the best in the NFL once again and able to match up to any D successfully.

 

[Ring 6]

True we need to make teams defend the whole field not just the areas between the numbers.

We DO make teams defend the entire field. It is done with routes.
If teams were ignoring the deep part of the field because we don't have a 'deep threat' then any NFL caliber WR even the slowest among them would get open.
Further if defenses were overcommitting to the middle of the field how did we have the most productive season in NFL history throwing to the middle of the field? And most productive in the middle of the field isn't even close, it blew away anything any other team has done.

]We have signed FA's and drafted players, without a lot of success.

We just had the 2nd most passing yards in a season in NFL history.
The year before our QB was the only ever unanimous MVP.
How is that 'without a lot of success'.

The issue is the need to read the d with Brady and make the correct decision on EVERY play. That is why Branch & Welker have been successful in this system, and even proven pros like J Galloway and Ocho have failed.

Why is it an issue, if it works?

Moss clearly had the football IQ and got the system right away. The issue came up when he ONLY wanted to work outside the lines and run just 1 route and Brady felt pressured to get him a couple of balls no matter what, disrupting the O as a whole.

Thats a bunch of crap. No one EVER mentioned Brady throwing to Moss too much until the Jet game in 2010 when Brady threw a lot to Moss because the Jets left him in single coverage vs Cromartie (any QB would throw at that all day) and Moss' lack of effort caused 2 Ints and a loss.

Lloyd is THE BEST pick available on the FA market, better than Jackson or Colson or whoever.

The reason is we know he can flourish in this system and he wants to run the whole route tree, we can't say that for certain for any of the other receivers who haven't played in this system. The fact that he wants to follow J McD (and said so publicly before the Pats hired him) is a another plus.


HE will make teams defend the whole field and help Brady, Gronk, AH and Welker in the process.

So you think other recievers would make Welker do better than the 15th best receiving yards in NFL history? Better than Jerry Rice, Michael Irvin, Calvin Johnson, Randy Moss, Andre Johnsons 2nd best season? Better than the season that no active player other than CJ this year has ever had in their career?
Or that Gronk would do MORE better than the best season any TE has had in NFL history? Or the 2 TEs way, way more than any TE tandem in NFL history?

The offense we run frees up these guys just fine.
Change for the sake of change works when you suck not when you are good.
YOU THINK a 'deep threat' frees up Welker, Gronk and Hernandez. The 2011 season PROVED that the offense the Patriots run did it better than any team ever has in the hisotry of the league.

Along with this we need someone (Vareen ?) who can be productive and a threat out of the backfield, that would make this O the best in the NFL once again and able to match up to any D successfully.

Why not just say we need the GOAT and the best 5 weapons in the league to go with him and nothing less is acceptable?

 

[Ring 6]

I just want someone who will be able to understand Brady and also can catch the ball. The last point is very important to me. Someone to catch the ball.

A steady, versatle, competant receiver to complement the 3 studs we have.
Bingo.
And a whole lot of defense.

 

[ATippett56]

A steady, versatle, competant receiver to complement the 3 studs we have.

And a whole lot of defense.

Why can't you maintain/upgrade the offense via unrestricted free agency (Wes Welker, Brandon Lloyd, Dan Connolly, Ben Jarvis Green-Ellis) and the defense via the 2012 NFL Draft?

 

[DonBlackmon55]

A steady, versatle, competant receiver to complement the 3 studs we have.
Bingo.
And a whole lot of defense.

This team needs 2 quality WR's for depth, period. One via FA, and one via draft. The one via FA should be Marques Colston

No thanks to VJAX, Bowe, Depsycho. As for the Brandon Lloyd mania, the guy ahd 1 great season and 1 decent season last year. So 2 good season in 9 years. Will BB trust offering hin the big $$ ? I cant see it unless Lloyd takes a 1 year prove it deal if he really wants that badly to play with Pats/Josh system

A Colston, Welker, Hernandez WR setup with Gronk at TE creates matchup nightmare, or Colston/Welker and 2 TE setup.

Cant be putting so much pressure on Brady to deliver to substandard WR's like Branch, Stinko, Slater....gimme a break.

Look at all the better offenses out there, they all have the deep threat, be it Packers, Lions, Saints, Giants, Eagles, Cowboys, Atlanta, SD

 

[patsfan13]

We DO make teams defend the entire field. It is done with routes.
If teams were ignoring the deep part of the field because we don't have a 'deep threat' then any NFL caliber WR even the slowest among them would get open.
Further if defenses were overcommitting to the middle of the field how did we have the most productive season in NFL history throwing to the middle of the field? And most productive in the middle of the field isn't even close, it blew away anything any other team has done.

Why not just say we need the GOAT and the best 5 weapons in the league to go with him and nothing less is acceptable?

We have struggled against the Steeler, Raven, Jets and Giant D over the past couple of years. We will struggle against the 49's, Raven's and Texan's D next year IMO.

If you want to win championships you have to be able to score against good D's in the playoffs. The record is that we haven't done that.