How important is a downfield threat?

[patsderoer]

Why can't you maintain/upgrade the offense via unrestricted free agency (Wes Welker, Brandon Lloyd, Dan Connolly, Ben Jarvis Green-Ellis) and the defense via the 2012 NFL Draft?

You cant upgrade the defense only through the Draft. This defence needs experienced playmakers, not only rookies who havent played a snap yet in the NFL.

 

[ATippett56]

We have struggled against the Steeler, Raven, Jets and Giant D over the past couple of years. We will struggle against the 49's, Raven's and Texan's D next year IMO.

If you want to win championships you have to be able to score against good D's in the playoffs. The record is that we haven't done that.

Based upon the game stats against the Ravens and Giants, the New England Patriots offense was not only imbalanced but also turned over the ball more than the opponents offense:

Patriots Offense vs Ravens Defense

37 Pass Plays (includes sacks)
28 Run Plays (does not include kneel downs)
57% Pass - 43% Run

Two offensive turnovers (two interceptions)

Time of Possession: Ravens 33:33 Patriots 26:27

Patriots Offense vs Giants Defense

43 Pass Plays (includes sacks)
19 Rush Plays
69% Pass - 31% Run

One offensive turnover (one interception)

Time of Possession: Giants 37:05 Patriots 22:55

 

[pherein]

This team needs 2 quality WR's for depth, period. One via FA, and one via draft. The one via FA should be Marques Colston

No thanks to VJAX, Bowe, Depsycho. As for the Brandon Lloyd mania, the guy ahd 1 great season and 1 decent season last year. So 2 good season in 9 years. Will BB trust offering hin the big $$ ? I cant see it unless Lloyd takes a 1 year prove it deal if he really wants that badly to play with Pats/Josh system

A Colston, Welker, Hernandez WR setup with Gronk at TE creates matchup nightmare, or Colston/Welker and 2 TE setup.

Cant be putting so much pressure on Brady to deliver to substandard WR's like Branch, Stinko, Slater....gimme a break.

Look at all the better offenses out there, they all have the deep threat, be it Packers, Lions, Saints, Giants, Eagles, Cowboys, Atlanta, SD

Yes, there is only one good pick for NE. Im hoping you can't out bit us, but I really don't think that possible. Colston is the best WR in FA, and I think BB knows that. Plus by getting him you will hurt one of the best offenses in the NFC, if you make the SB, that could be big. We don't want to face Colston with Brady, thats not good. Better if he's on our side,lol.

Out bid us, Im sure you can do that, you won't be disappointed , and we will be.
But if he's with NE please understand we still love this guy, he's so nice and cool. Colston should be #1 on BB's radar.

We love you colston

#53: Marques Colston - YouTube

2010 New Orleans Saints Yearbook: Marques Colston - YouTube

Marques Colston 2011-2012 Highlights - YouTube

Oh the the thing he does in the end zone after a TD is not to thank god, he does a kiss and thanks god for his mom. Its for his mother.

 

[PatsFan24]

This is a common topic among Patsfans but really how important is it for the Patriots to get a WR that can run Deep and make plays? Imagine an offense with a Brady (HOF QB), Welker (Best slot receiver in the NFL), Gronk/Hernandez (The best TE tandem in NFL history), and a Legit Deep threat WR. This would be a complete nightmare for any defense, more than it already is. Teams already need to respect the short pass and the TE's over the middle but what if there's a guy who causes problems deep?

Whether the Patriots pick up a WR in FA or through the draft, I think a WR who can make make plays down field will open things up for everyone else. And if the running game can take a step forward with Ridley, the Patriots will easily be the #1 offense in the NFL next season.

It would be nice to be able to stretch the defensive more, but I don't know if it is required to win a title.

 

[Betterthanmost]

We have struggled against the Steeler, Raven, Jets and Giant D over the past couple of years. We will struggle against the 49's, Raven's and Texan's D next year IMO.

If you want to win championships you have to be able to score against good D's in the playoffs. The record is that we haven't done that.

The consensus at the moment is that Brady struggles against Man coverage. My take is that we have receivers who can't beat Man coverage on the outside. Most of the teams you have mentioned will probably play man and it is important that we get guys who can beat their match ups for us to get a chance. Middle is getting too crowded.

One other thing, our WR don't make circus catches, not that I want them to, but if Brady is not perfect with the ball, most of them will either drop it, or they will not be in the same zip code.
Take a look at colston, he has a wide catching radius, throw it behind me, infront, 2miles to his side. He will catch it without any stress.
In short he catches the ball, but he does disappear in the cold though.

 

[Steve1iron]

I see a downfield threat as a huge team need. Obviously the focus should be first and foremost on turning the defense into a unit that can stop any offense at any time. A downfield threat will open up this offense in ways we haven't yet seen. Teams won't be able to overload the 10 to 20 yards beyond the line of scrimmage if we have someone (1 or more) who can run deep pulling a CB and/or safety.

If the price is right, there are a bunch of WR's who qualify. First though, we need to sign Welker. What a great guy and receiver. He won't want to end his Pats career with that loss. I think the price will be right.

 

[makoute]

Question, if it came down to paying Welker, or paying one of the other free agent WR (Colston, the Jacksons, Wallace etc.....), who should the Pats pay?

 

[patsfan13]

The consensus at the moment is that Brady struggles against Man coverage. My take is that we have receivers who can't beat Man coverage on the outside. Most of the teams you have mentioned will probably play man and it is important that we get guys who can beat their match ups for us to get a chance. Middle is getting too crowded.

One other thing, our WR don't make circus catches, not that I want them to, but if Brady is not perfect with the ball, most of them will either drop it, or they will not be in the same zip code.
Take a look at colston, he has a wide catching radius, throw it behind me, infront, 2miles to his side. He will catch it without any stress.
In short he catches the ball, but he does disappear in the cold though.

Agree with this, however I want Lloyd because he already played well in this O and he can play in the cold.

 

[makoute]

wow did not know that then Josh Morgan it is lol

Only problem is, Josh Morgan kinda suck.

 

[patsderoer]

Question, if it came down to paying Welker, or paying one of the other free agent WR (Colston, the Jacksons, Wallace etc.....), who should the Pats pay?

The guy who knows the system and produces, obviously. With FA you have no guarantee that they will integrate or they will produce the same way for the Pats.

 

[Deus Irae]

It would be nice to be able to stretch the defensive more, but I don't know if it is required to win a title.

Nothing is required to win a title. Everything can be compensated for. However, the reality is that the Patriots don't force opponents to defend the entire field in the manner that other teams do, because they don't have any receiver who's a legitimate middle-deep threat. The team, as constituted on the day of the Super Bowl, had five major weak spots:

S
CB
WR
DE
OLB

Those all have to be addressed, not because it's impossible to win without any one of them, but because whenever you have an overwhelming weakness somewhere, it weakens you everywhere and it gives the league's best teams areas that they can exploit.

 

[ds1001]

it would be a big help and create more room underneath for welker to operate

 

[Onedaful]

Question, if it came down to paying Welker, or paying one of the other free agent WR (Colston, the Jacksons, Wallace etc.....), who should the Pats pay?

In my opinion I think we should keep Wes who knows the system better than any FA we pick up. Its a risk to grab Colston and have him not mesh with the team. And if that happens we should pick up some DEF players so that we can have more time on offense.

 

[patsfan13]

Question, if it came down to paying Welker, or paying one of the other free agent WR (Colston, the Jacksons, Wallace etc.....), who should the Pats pay?

B Lloyd playing in the same system under J McD 77 catches with 18.3 per w Orton as QB........in a cold weather city. Knows how to play in the read the D system the Pats play as we have seen repeatedly many good wr can't pick up this system.

Go with the guy we know can play (and likes the system), pair w Welker and keep Branch as a backup/#3 wr.

 

[Ring 6]

We have struggled against the Steeler, Raven, Jets and Giant D over the past couple of years. We will struggle against the 49's, Raven's and Texan's D next year IMO.

If you want to win championships you have to be able to score against good D's in the playoffs. The record is that we haven't done that.

How exactly did we struggle against the Jets this year?
We scored 23 on Baltimore.
The Steeler and Giants game has as much to do with the offense being kept off the field than being stopped.
If you are expecting an offense that scores over 30 points a game to lead the league or come close to also score over 30 against the best defenses, you don't understand the game.

In the last 2 SBs the offense scored enough that if the defense didn't allow 85 and 92 yard TD drives the last time on the field, we would have 2 more Championships.
Wasting our time pretending the offense should be able to do just as well against the best defenses in the league as the worst takes the focus off the issue, which is the defense must be unf#cked.

 

[DonBlackmon55]

How exactly did we struggle against the Jets this year?
We scored 23 on Baltimore.
The Steeler and Giants game has as much to do with the offense being kept off the field than being stopped.
If you are expecting an offense that scores over 30 points a game to lead the league or come close to also score over 30 against the best defenses, you don't understand the game.

In the last 2 SBs the offense scored enough that if the defense didn't allow 85 and 92 yard TD drives the last time on the field, we would have 2 more Championships.Wasting our time pretending the offense should be able to do just as well against the best defenses in the league as the worst takes the focus off the issue, which is the defense must be unf#cked.

Offense
SB 42 = 14 points scored
SB 46 = 17 points scored

Defense
SB 42 = 17 points allowed
SB 46 = 19 points allowed

One could argue that in SB46 Defense only allowed 12 points, since bonehead Brady play put the D right back on its heels after holding Giants to 0 points, allowed a TD . In the 1st Quarter Dedense was on the field for 12 out of 15 minutes, so really cannot blame them when Giants scored a TD on the drive after Safety free kick !!!!!

How many SB's, besides 42 have been won by scoring 14 or 17 points ??????????
4 total, and guess what, the last one was SB IX, Steelers 16-6 victory over Vikings in 1975. Get your blinders off blaming the D for SB42 and 46 losses. Absurd comments.

Defense did its part in both SB's. In SB 46 they created 3 Turnovers(fumbles, bad luck they did not bounce our way or we had 12 men), while the offense made crucial mistake after crucial mistake - safety, int, drop passes !

in SB42, the offensive line was a joke, and boneheaded game plan

Both SB losses rest on the OFFENSE, period

 

[Ring 6]

Offense
SB 42 = 14 points scored
SB 46 = 17 points scored

Defense
SB 42 = 17 points allowed
SB 46 = 19 points allowed

One could argue that in SB46 Defense only allowed 12 points, since bonehead Brady play put the D right back on its heels after holding Giants to 0 points, allowed a TD . In the 1st Quarter Dedense was on the field for 12 out of 15 minutes, so really cannot blame them when Giants scored a TD on the drive after Safety free kick !!!!!

How many SB's have been won by scoring 14 or 17 points ??????????
4 total, and guess what, the last one was SB IX, Steelers 16-6 victory over Vikings in 1975. Get your blinders off blaming the D for SB42 and 46 losses. Absurd comments.

Defense did its part in both SB's. In SB 46 they created 3 Turnovers(fumbles, bad luck they did not bounce our way or we had 12 men), while the offense made crucial mistake after crucial mistake - safety, int, drop passes !

in SB42, the offensive line was a joke, and boneheaded game plan

Both SB losses rest on the OFFENSE, period

The defense took the field with 85 and 92 yards behind it and one drive left to defend, and failed. Whatever happened before that pales in comparison. The defense had a chance to close out, and allowed long TD drives, really not even putting up much resistance.

The fact that you are complaining that the defense couldn't overcome 2 points and 1 turnover (deep in opponent territory) in 2 games illustrates the issue.

 

[patsfan13]

How exactly did we struggle against the Jets this year?

What part of "last couple of years" didn't you understand, If you think we didn't struggle when we lost to them at home in the playoffs.....

We scored 23 on Baltimore.

The O struggled.

The Steeler and Giants game has as much to do with the offense being kept off the field than being stopped.

Look at the number of 3 and outs and get back to us. The TOP was also because the O couldn't move the ball.

If you are expecting an offense that scores over 30 points a game to lead the league or come close to also score over 30 against the best defenses, you don't understand the game.

You mean like the Saints against the 49'ers this year?

In the last 2 SBs the offense scored enough that if the defense didn't allow 85 and 92 yard TD drives the last time on the field, we would have 2 more Championships.

14 and 17 points isn't championship O with the current rules sorry.

Wasting our time pretending the offense should be able to do just as well against the best defenses in the league as the worst takes the focus off the issue, which is the defense must be unf#cked.

22 min TOP really???????????????????

 

[jnug]

We do have several needs and holes to fill on this team.

I think the number 1 need by far is a stud DE and I worry that BB just does not like to draft for that position for some reason. Show him a guy that can get down in the stance and also play upright like a linebacker or a guy that normally plays from the stance that can also play on his feet and BB gets real interested. However by definition that guy is not going to be a stud DE. He is a swingman that can do both jobs well but not a single job exceptionally. I think the time has come where BB really has to break his recent trend and get a real DE.

Then I think we do need a CB. Would you be completely surprised if BB did not try to get both a CB and a S in the same year though? Plus I think he might be convinced that his safety play was improving a good deal by year end.

OLB I would bet will be a position where if BB tries for something in the draft it will be a late rounder.

Somewhere in the middle of that, I would love to see a WR. Now I don't really think it has to be a burner that can run the fade or the post all day. Presuming Gronk comes back OK, those 20-40 round seam routes that he runs go a long way to creating issues for defenses.

The WR we must have if we are going to take one is a WR that can be a threat outside the hash marks. Somebody that can get at least 20 yards down-field that just dominates CB's physically. He should be fast enough so that he is a threat to get farther down-field than that, but if he can be our guy from the hash marks out in that 20-40 yard area, combined with the other receivers, we should have what Brady needs at least for receivers.

 

[DonBlackmon55]

The defense took the field with 85 and 92 yards behind it and one drive left to defend, and failed. Whatever happened before that pales in comparison. The defense had a chance to close out, and allowed long TD drives, really not even putting up much resistance.

The fact that you are complaining that the defense couldn't overcome 2 points and 1 turnover (deep in opponent territory) in 2 games illustrates the issue.

2 great plays - Tyree, and Manning to Manningham, did that ever register with you write this crap ?

Offense had the ball to close it out. Welker choked, game over.
Offense had the ball to close it out. Branch choked, game over.
Offense had the ball to close it out. Hernandez choked, game over.
Offense had the ball and Brady choked on first play to give them 9 points
Offense had the ball to close it out. Brady choked and again threw an ill advised bomb INT instead of keeping the ball

Defense held them to 2 FG's on drives that couldve easily been TD's

You're made yourself look like a fool......Only 4 teams in 46 SB's played have won a Superbowl having scored 17 or less points, and the last one was 37 years ago. YOU LOSE your argument convincingly