Greg Doyle: Belichick is an above average, not great coach who benefits from Brady

[Rob0729]

Re: Greg Doyle: Belichick is an above average,not great coach who benefits from Brad

BTW, he attributes the talent on the 2008 season that got them to 11-5 with Cassel because of talent that wanted to play with Brady. What BS is that.

We know that Vrabel and Belichick had a connection from the time Belichick scouted Vrabel for the Jets where he told Vrabel that the Jets would not be drafting him, but one day he would coach Vrabel one way or another. Pretty sure Vrabel came to New England for Belichick.

I am also pretty sure players like Seau and Thomas and Harrison all came to the Pats to play for Belichick and not to play with Brady. Other players who played a role in Super Bowls like Phifer, Hamilton, Otis, my man, Pleasant, etc. all came because of Belichick.

Lastly, in 2001, Brady wasn't Brady. Sure he had flashes of what he became like the last drive in the Super Bowl, but he was mostly a game manager that season and asked to not screw up while the defense carried the team. In 2003, it was similar.

 

[Brady2Moss]

Re: Greg Doyle: Belichick is an above average,not great coach who benefits from Brad

Wow not going to click that. Belichick is probably an above average, not great, GM but he is the best coach in the league bar none. Somehow he managed to get that 2011 secondary to play half decent in the playoffs.

He was probably was to make this point but Brady helps cover up personnel mistakes not coaching mistakes.

Bunch of jackasses

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Re: Greg Doyle: Belichick is an above average,not great coach who benefits from Brad

Pre-Internet this sort of crap never would have been written. In this age of "too much information," people either have to be outrageous -- or really, really, REALLY good -- to get noticed. Guess what we get more of now.

Oh, believe me, it got written.

It just might not have been published.

 

[Tunescribe]

Re: Greg Doyle: Belichick is an above average,not great coach who benefits from Brad

Oh, believe me, it got written.

It just might not have been published.

Yes, my point is it never would've made a public forum of any kind.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Re: Greg Doyle: Belichick is an above average,not great coach who benefits from Brad

Belichik is in the top 5 alltime coaches at worst, top 10 unquestionably. I thought the 2008 season was his best coaching job ever, then 2001 (look at that roster) then I believe 2011 has to be up there, to get to the Super Bowl with THAT defense, was quite amazing. Just an amazing coach, people overuse the word great, but Belichick is a GREAT coach.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Re: Greg Doyle: Belichick is an above average,not great coach who benefits from Brad

Would Chuck Noll have been a HOFer if HOF QB Bradshaw wasn't QB?

Would Tom Landry have been a HOFer if HOF QB Staubach wasn't QB?

Would Bill Walsh have been a HOFer if HOF QB Montana and Young weren't QB?

The bottom line is between every great head coach lies a great HOF QB on his team .....I can't name one head coach in NFL history who has been determined as a great head coach who had scrubs at QB his whole career

Every great coaches career had a great QB leading the team for most of his career ...it's a combo where one rarely succeeds without the other.

Belichick would not have won 3 Super Bowls without Brady and I believe Brady wouldn't be what he is today without the guidance of Bill as well.

Peanut Butter needs Jelly to make a great sandwich,take away one and the sandwich doesn't taste as good.

 

[TomPatriot]

Re: Greg Doyle: Belichick is an above average,not great coach who benefits from Brad

The Patriots were a very good football team by the end of 2008, all without Tom Brady. Arizona went to the Super Bowl that year and almost beat the Steelers. A few weeks before the Patriots beat them by 40.

What talent elected to come to NE to play with Brady before 2008?

BB was one of the architects of the great Giants defenses that won two Super Bowls. That was over a decade before he was hired by Bob Kraft to coach the Patriots.

Lombardi only won championships with Bart Starr. Take his name off that trophy; he was only an above average coach.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Greg Doyle: Belichick is an above average,not great coach who benefits from Brad

who the hell is Greg Doyle? I mean, other than a ****ty attention-whore 'writer' (obviously)?

Anyone who thinks that Belichick rides Brady's coattails clearly wasn't watching in 2001.

 

[IllegalContact]

Re: Greg Doyle: Belichick is an above average,not great coach who benefits from Brad

the guy is obviously a harbaugh nut-hugger.....

where would the raven harbaugh be without ozzie newsome (a BB guy)
where would niner harbaugh be without trent baalke (with Parcell/BB with the Jets in 1998-2000)



If not greatness, then what do you call this?

Six of Belichick's assistant coaches have become NFL head coaches:

Romeo Crennel, Cleveland Browns (2005–2008), Kansas City Chiefs (2011–2012)
Al Groh, New York Jets (2000)
Josh McDaniels, Denver Broncos (2009–2010)
Eric Mangini, New York Jets (2006–2008), Cleveland Browns (2009–2010)
Nick Saban, Miami Dolphins (2005–2006)
Jim Schwartz, Detroit Lions (2009–present)
Eight assistant coaches or players have become NCAA Division I head coaches:

Kirk Ferentz, Iowa (1999–present)
Ferentz's son Brian Ferentz, who played for his father at Iowa from 2001–2005, joined the Patriots scouting department in 2008 and later their coaching staff in 2009
Al Groh, Wake Forest (1981–1986), Virginia (2001–2009)
Pat Hill, Fresno State (1997–2011)
Bill O'Brien, Penn State (2012–present)
Nick Saban, Michigan State (1995–1999), LSU (2000–2004), Alabama (2007–present)
Josh McDaniels was a graduate assistant under Saban in 1999 before joining the Patriots
Charlie Weis, Notre Dame (2005–2009), Kansas (2011–present)
Two graduate assistants for Weis at Notre Dame, Shane Waldron and Patrick Graham, are now assistant coaches for Belichick
Kliff Kingsbury, Texas Tech (2013–present) (former player)
Pete Mangurian, Columbia (2012–present)
One assistant coach has become a Canadian Football League head coach:

John Hufnagel, Calgary Stampeders (2008–present)
Fourteen assistant coaches or executives under Belichick have become assistant head coaches, coordinators or executives in the NFL:

Jeff Davidson, offensive coordinator of the Carolina Panthers (2007–2010), assistant head coach and offensive coordinator for the Cleveland Browns (2006)
Thomas Dimitroff, general manager for the Atlanta Falcons (2008–present)
John Mitchell, assistant head coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers (2007–present)
Ozzie Newsome, general manager for the Baltimore Ravens (2002–present)
Scott Pioli, general manager for the Kansas City Chiefs (2009–2012)
Joel Collier, assistant general manager for the Kansas City Chiefs (2009–present)
Mike Tannenbaum, general manager for the New York Jets (2006–2012)
Brian Daboll, offensive coordinator for the Cleveland Browns (2009–2011), offensive coordinator for the Miami Dolphins (2011), offensive coordinator for the Kansas City Chiefs (2012)
Rob Ryan, defensive coordinator for the Dallas Cowboys (2011–), defensive coordinator for the Cleveland Browns (2009–2010), defensive coordinator for the Oakland Raiders (2004–2008)
Brad Seely, special teams coordinator of the San Francisco 49ers (2011–present), assistant head coach/special teams coordinator for the Cleveland Browns (2009–2011)
Charlie Weis, offensive coordinator for the Kansas City Chiefs (2010)
Josh McDaniels, offensive coordinator for the St. Louis Rams (2011)
Phil Savage, general manager Cleveland Browns (2005-2008), player personal executive Philadelphia Eagles (2010-present)
Jim Bates, defensive coordinator Tampa Bay Buccaneers(2009), Green Bay Packers (2005), Miami Dolphins (2000-2003), Atlanta Falcons (1994)
Chuck Bresnahan, defensive coordinator Oakland Raiders(2011)
Dean Pees, defensive coordinator Baltimore Ravens (2012

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Greg Doyle: Belichick is an above average,not great coach who benefits from Brad

the guy is obviously a harbaugh nut-hugger.....

where would the raven harbaugh be without ozzie newsome (a BB guy)
where would niner harbaugh be without trent baalke (with Parcell/BB with the Jets in 1998-2000)

We're going to see what kind of coach John Harbaugh is this year. His defense is gutted. Two of his best players on offense last year are gone. Let's see if he can still put together a winning club with those losses.

 

[Jackson 2]

Re: Greg Doyle: Belichick is an above average,not great coach who benefits from Brad

the guy is obviously a harbaugh nut-hugger.....

where would the raven harbaugh be without ozzie newsome (a BB guy)
where would niner harbaugh be without trent baalke (with Parcell/BB with the Jets in 1998-2000)



If not greatness, then what do you call this?

Six of Belichick's assistant coaches have become NFL head coaches:

Romeo Crennel, Cleveland Browns (2005–2008), Kansas City Chiefs (2011–2012)
Al Groh, New York Jets (2000)
Josh McDaniels, Denver Broncos (2009–2010)
Eric Mangini, New York Jets (2006–2008), Cleveland Browns (2009–2010)
Nick Saban, Miami Dolphins (2005–2006)
Jim Schwartz, Detroit Lions (2009–present)
Eight assistant coaches or players have become NCAA Division I head coaches:

Kirk Ferentz, Iowa (1999–present)
Ferentz's son Brian Ferentz, who played for his father at Iowa from 2001–2005, joined the Patriots scouting department in 2008 and later their coaching staff in 2009
Al Groh, Wake Forest (1981–1986), Virginia (2001–2009)
Pat Hill, Fresno State (1997–2011)
Bill O'Brien, Penn State (2012–present)
Nick Saban, Michigan State (1995–1999), LSU (2000–2004), Alabama (2007–present)
Josh McDaniels was a graduate assistant under Saban in 1999 before joining the Patriots
Charlie Weis, Notre Dame (2005–2009), Kansas (2011–present)
Two graduate assistants for Weis at Notre Dame, Shane Waldron and Patrick Graham, are now assistant coaches for Belichick
Kliff Kingsbury, Texas Tech (2013–present) (former player)
Pete Mangurian, Columbia (2012–present)l
One assistant coach has become a Canadian Football League head coach:

John Hufnagel, Calgary Stampeders (2008–present)
Fourteen assistant coaches or executives under Belichick have become assistant head coaches, coordinators or executives in the NFL:

Jeff Davidson, offensive coordinator of the Carolina Panthers (2007–2010), assistant head coach and offensive coordinator for the Cleveland Browns (2006)
Thomas Dimitroff, general manager for the Atlanta Falcons (2008–present)
John Mitchell, assistant head coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers (2007–present)
Ozzie Newsome, general manager for the Baltimore Ravens (2002–present)
Scott Pioli, general manager for the Kansas City Chiefs (2009–2012)
Joel Collier, assistant general manager for the Kansas City Chiefs (2009–present)
Mike Tannenbaum, general manager for the New York Jets (2006–2012)
Brian Daboll, offensive coordinator for the Cleveland Browns (2009–2011), offensive coordinator for the Miami Dolphins (2011), offensive coordinator for the Kansas City Chiefs (2012)
Rob Ryan, defensive coordinator for the Dallas Cowboys (2011–), defensive coordinator for the Cleveland Browns (2009–2010), defensive coordinator for the Oakland Raiders (2004–2008)
Brad Seely, special teams coordinator of the San Francisco 49ers (2011–present), assistant head coach/special teams coordinator for the Cleveland Browns (2009–2011)
Charlie Weis, offensive coordinator for the Kansas City Chiefs (2010)
Josh McDaniels, offensive coordinator for the St. Louis Rams (2011)
Phil Savage, general manager Cleveland Browns (2005-2008), player personal executive Philadelphia Eagles (2010-present)
Jim Bates, defensive coordinator Tampa Bay Buccaneers(2009), Green Bay Packers (2005), Miami Dolphins (2000-2003), Atlanta Falcons (1994)
Chuck Bresnahan, defensive coordinator Oakland Raiders(2011)
Dean Pees, defensive coordinator Baltimore Ravens (2012

Kudos. that's a nice piece of work.

 

[Joker]

Re: Greg Doyle: Belichick is an above average,not great coach who benefits from Brad

heh...oh look...another fake azzed popcorn gangster

 

[Wretch]

Re: Greg Doyle: Belichick is an above average,not great coach who benefits from Brad

So if BB is good but and made great by Brady, what does it say about Shula that he couldn't win SBs with Marino?

 

[mgcolby]

Re: Greg Doyle: Belichick is an above average,not great coach who benefits from Brad

Who's greg doyel again?

I don't know but at least he is original.

So he's got that going for him.

 

[ForThoseAboutToRock]

Re: Greg Doyle: Belichick is an above average,not great coach who benefits from Brad

BTW, he attributes the talent on the 2008 season that got them to 11-5 with Cassel because of talent that wanted to play with Brady. What BS is that.

Ah.... You've gotta feel bad for him (no you don't). Dude needs to learn even the basics of how to refute arguments against your main premise. Hint, declaring it invalid out of hand removes credibility of your own premise, because it shows your premise isn't supported well enough in fact and logic to defeat counterarguments.

How anyone can make claims like this is beyond me. Players and coaches don't operate in a vacuum.

What % of coaches would've kept 4 QB's on the roster so as to not lose this scrawny 6th rounder?
How many of the all time great coaches would've made the choices to keep Brady on the field when Bledsoe was healthy?
If not for Belichick, would Brady have ever become a starter, or would he be something like Matt Flynn?

Since Belichick's title is "head coach" is there some possibility that, perhaps, he coached Brady a bit and helped him become a great QB - and if so, who would know whether such a thing were true> (the answer is TB who has openly stated his opinion of where Belichick ranks as a coach...just ignore that though)

 

[Uncle Rico]

Re: Greg Doyle: Belichick is an above average,not great coach who benefits from Brad

Guy can't even spell his own name right.

 

[Bella*chick]

Re: Greg Doyle: Belichick is an above average,not great coach who benefits from Brad

Wasn't 2001 the year The QB coach passed away and BB took over his duties with Brady and Bledsoe? So he was definitely involved in those early days that helped Brady become Brady.

BB and Brady are a double helix...each one needs the other for it to work like it has.

 

[mgcolby]

Re: Greg Doyle: Belichick is an above average,not great coach who benefits from Brad

Doyel rules!!! :rocker:

I know...I'm sorry I couldn't resist. Especially after I saw the mohawk.

 

[eom]

Re: Greg Doyle: Belichick is an above average,not great coach who benefits from Brad

He went 11-5 with Matt Cassel at quarterback in 2008 when Brady got hurt, staying focused and using overwhelming talent -- talent that was attracted to New England because of Brady

I don't know why anyone pays attention to any of this nonsense.
I pass crazy people on the street every day who have opinions, too.

 

[Ivan]

Re: Greg Doyle: Belichick is an above average,not great coach who benefits from Brad

Belichick and Brady made each other, but Brady is the bigger beneficiary because Belichick is the one who had the offensive sytem that played directly into Brady's biggest strength, his decision making abilities. Brady wasn't going to convince most NFL coaches to give him the real chance because he simply wasn't going to win them over with a cannon arm or athletic ability. Belichick wanted a QB who would make the decisions on the field exactly the way he would make them, and after a year of work in the film room with Brady and Bledsoe it was very apparent to him that Brady was going to be the guy who would do that all game every game, whereas Bledsoe was going to huck it up and trust his arm whenever the feeling hit him. Belichick wanted asn offense that would move the ball consistently and put up points but was also low risk and would not make the critical turnovers at the most critical times, and Brady was perfect for that offense. Brady in turn turned himself into the GOAT by working tirelessly at his craft and developed himself year after year into a better and better QB. Both are the greatest of all time, and if they win one more ring it will be next to impossible to rebut that argument.