From Laughing Stock to Powerhouse - The man most responsible for the turnaround

[BradyManny]

We need to review some of the old tapes of Brady, the great "find". He couldn't throw 30 yards down the field. To his credit, he is the hardest worker of any QB not named Peyton. He whas mad an enormourmous difference over the years.

Personally, I think that there are many quarterbacks that would have been successful in New England. This is part of the reason that I consstantly beg for a veteran backup. This team could be in the playoffs this year under lots of quarterbacks.

You're seriously underestimating Tom Brady. Drew Bledsoe was a great QB, possibly a HOFer. Now, granted, in 2001 he was on the decline, but with him, BB & Kraft were 5-13 as a team. Look what they've done since Brady has been QB. The change was OVERNIGHT. The team went from mediocre to Super Bowl b/c Mo Lewis knocked out Drew.

The last five years, this team would be slightly above middle of the pack without Brady - I see no evidence to suggest otherwise.

 

[ClevTrev]

personally a lot of respect for Mr Billy Sullivan too (without him no Patriots

Please! Billy Sullivan and family had underhandedly spirited the team away from co-owners and then proceeded to run the team into the ground. They meddled with coaches and management and drove the quality coaches and players away as well with their management style. By the early 80s, the Patriots ownership was staggering and had no other choice but to sell the team. The fact that they remained in New England is a minor miracle. No, I hold absolutely zero respect for the Sullivans who set football back 20 years in New England.

Believe me, while I think the poll is naive in that it takes all parts of the organization to be successful, and no single part is more important than the others, the Krafts have built a foundation upon which a quality team can thrive.

 

[PatsfanGlo]

It has to be Bob Kraft. This guy brought credibility to the team and made many shrewd moves. Look at other sports teams with crummy ownership. To list a few, LA Clipper, NY Knicks, NY Jets, Cincy Bengals, Detroit Lions, etc. It all starts from the top.

 

[fair catch fryar]

While I did reluctantly vote for Tom Brady, I was looking over at the history of the Patriots on Wikipedia's site and the following excerpt reminded me how close this team was to moving to St. Louis. Thank god, Bob Kraft refused to sell out the lease. I would like to officially change my vote for MR. Kraft:rocker:

Per Wikipedia.com:

"Interest in the Patriots grew both during and after the 1993 season. By many measures, the Patriots were as popular as they had ever been - even more popular than they had been during the 1985 Super Bowl year. Despite this unprecedented interest, however, the franchise was increasingly rumored to be headed to St. Louis, and at times the move looked imminent. Finally, in the 1993 off-season, the issue reached its climax. Orthwein offered Boston businessman Robert Kraft (who had bought Foxboro Stadium for $25 million USD in 1988 out of bankruptcy court) $75 million USD to break the operating covenant of the lease, which would then free him to move the Patriots to St. Louis. Kraft refused, which continued to bind the Patriots to playing at Foxboro. When it became apparent that Kraft would not allow Orthwein to buy out the Lease, Orthwein put the team up for sale. Kraft bought the team for $172 million USD in 1994, beating out an investor group which included Paul Newman and Walter Payton as investors. On February 26, 1994, Kraft's first full day as owner of the Patriots, the Patriots sold 5,958 season tickets, shattering by over sixfold the team's prior single-day record of 979. Moreover, since Kraft took control over the team, the Patriots have sold out every home game, including pre-season games."

 

[maverick4]

On February 26, 1994, Kraft's first full day as owner of the Patriots, the Patriots sold 5,958 season tickets, shattering by over sixfold the team's prior single-day record of 979. Moreover, since Kraft took control over the team, the Patriots have sold out every home game, including pre-season games."[/I]

AGAIN, what does this have to do with winning football games? Oh that's right, nothing.

WAAAY too many people are thanking Kraft for not moving and mixing that up with the topic at hand.
Mr. Kraft is a great owner, but Parcells and Belichick have created the Pats dynasty.

 

[maverick4]

How can you not be with the Kraft voters, we would not even have a professional football team here anymore if it was not for Kraft! Without Kraft there is no Belichick or brady here, how can the guy not be the reason for the turnaround.

My God, it's like a bunch of programmed sheep here.

What does Kraft saving the team from moving have to do with us becoming a powerhouse? NOTHING

 

[emoney_33]

Kraft's determination to get BB, his intelligence to give BB so much power, his keeping the franchise here etc... I think Kraft has to be the most responsible for the turnaround of the franchise. If you are talking ONLY about the product on the field and the play on Sundays (Thursdays, Saturdays and Mondays sometimes) then BB is the most responsible. With Brady getting a lot of credit as well.

We shouldn't even be debating which one man is most responsible. We are lucky to have the BEST owner, BEST coach, BEST qb (and now this year the BEST wr)! We'll never know how much one helped the other nor do I ever care to know. I love that we have these guys and I will not pick sides anymore

GO PATRIOTS!

 

[maverick4]

Sure Kraft gets credit, but he's not the main guy.

Other examples. Red Auerbach was the reason the Celtics were awesome, not the owner who had the luck to hire him. Michael Jordan was the reason the Bulls became great, not the GM who made the no brainer decision to draft him.

Kraft is NOT the main reason why the Pats are so great. He's a great owner, but honestly if Belichick hadn't resigned from the NY Jets, the Jets may have 3 or 4 superbowls by now, Brady might never have been a starter, and the Pats under Kraft would have hired some coach who mired in mediocrity with Drew Bledsoe.

Here is another example:

Bill Parcells is credited as being a TURNAROUND specialist. That is why he got big bucks, after the Giants, at New England, at New York, at Dallas, and at Miami. At every place he's gone, it has been HIM that has turned the franchise around. The teams sucked before he got there, after he left they were good, and remained good at least a few years after that too.

Now, at none of those places is the turnaround credited to the owner, or to the star player. Parcells constructed those winning franchises, and without his presence, they started to fall apart (late 90's Pats, early 00 Jets, etc).

The SAME REASONING applies to why Belichick is the main reason for our powerhouse team right now, not Kraft or Brady.

 

[maverick4]

The reason why we were a laughingstock is because we sucked as a team.

I don't care how Kraft saved the team or how many sold out games we've had, the reason we are no longer a laughingstock is because we are an awesome team that WINS.

 

[BradyManny]

To me, I think you're actually making a convincing argument for both Brady and BB. So from what you said earlier - I think you're selling Brady short.

 

[maverick4]

To me, I think you're actually making a convincing argument for both Brady and BB. So from what you said earlier - I think you're selling Brady short.

Believe me, Tom Brady is my favorite football player ever, even higher than Montana who was my idol growing up. I am not selling Tom short, I have been telling people for years he is one of the best ever, and this year I think he is the best ever.

But I don't let that cloud my judgement on this issue. I also love Bob Kraft as an owner.

But the main question of this thread has to do with winning, and that is all Belichick. I have thought about this long and hard the past several years, and even if Brady were never born, I believe Belichick would have found someone with accuracy and pocket presence to run a ball-control offense, like Phil Simms, and he still would have won championships.

 

[Bigdogx]

My God, it's like a bunch of programmed sheep here.

What does Kraft saving the team from moving have to do with us becoming a powerhouse? NOTHING

Because without a TEAM here how does one become a powerhouse, really is your brain that challenged that it can not connect the dots here, do the 70% of the people here who voted right have to draw out a freakin map for you to understand this concept of no team here means you don't even have a argument!

 

[PatsfanGlo]

My God, it's like a bunch of programmed sheep here.

What does Kraft saving the team from moving have to do with us becoming a powerhouse? NOTHING

Kraft could have done a lot worse. Out of 3 chances for picking coaches, he hit 2 homeruns with Parcells and BB. Yes, Parcells laid the foundations by picking up good players and laying the discipline and BB just being a genius but in big organization such as Patriots, ownership sets the tone. He could have pulled Jerry Jones and meddle with player selection to set the team 5 years behind or just don't give a damn except money. Kraft hired good personnel in place, let them do their job and created successful business out of football team which has won 3 superbowls this decade. It may sound easy but if it was, how come so many other teams go through mediocre seasons over and over again?

Though it is hard to pin entire sucess on Kraft since a lot of things went right with Pats, big chunk of credit should go to him.

 

[primetime]

Tom Brady is the reason we're a powerhouse. But Kraft, Parcells, and Bledsoe saved the team, too... and some of the onus is Belichick's. Still, this team would not have won 3 Super Bowls without Brady... and probably not any at all.

 

[maverick4]

Kraft could have done a lot worse. Out of 3 chances for picking coaches, he hit 2 homeruns with Parcells and BB.

Kraft didn't hire Parcells, Kraft's first hiring moves were Bobby Greer and Pete Carroll. And him choosing Belichick was a bit of luck because he knew Belichick from when he was with the Pats.

To the poster above patsfanglo, the reason why so many are picking Kraft is because they aren't even answering the question, they are using reasons that have nothing to do with the question posed.

 

[BradyManny]

But the main question of this thread has to do with winning, and that is all Belichick. I have thought about this long and hard the past several years, and even if Brady were never born, I believe Belichick would have found someone with accuracy and pocket presence to run a ball-control offense, like Phil Simms, and he still would have won championships.

I'll agree to disagree here - but fortunately, we've only seen Brady with BB there and hopefully that combo will last the remainder of their careers (well, BB is bound to outlast TB) and we'll never know what one would be like w/o the other.

 

[reflexblue]

I checked off Mo Lewis, but it is and was Bob Krafts passionate desire to put a winning team on the field thats the reason the Pats are where they are today. He hired BB and gave him anything he wanted or wants. The best owner in sports. The saying "the fish rots from the head" applies to sports teams, and the head of the Patriots doesn't stink. :rocker:

 

[maverick4]

Though it is hard to pin entire sucess on Kraft since a lot of things went right with Pats, big chunk of credit should go to him.

That is just a ******ed line of reasoning.

So I guess if Bill Parcells wins 3 Superbowls for the Dolphins, then Wayne Huizanga is the main reason for their turnaround?

Gimme a break, you Kraft lovers. He's a great owner but has nothing to do with winning, which is the #1 criteria of turning a franchise around.

 

[maverick4]

I'll agree to disagree here - but fortunately, we've only seen Brady with BB there and hopefully that combo will last the remainder of their careers (well, BB is bound to outlast TB) and we'll never know what one would be like w/o the other.

BradyManny an argument can be made for Tom Brady, since he's been nothing but a winner.

However, I would point to another franchise to explain why it's Belichick, not Brady, and that example is the Colts.

Bill Polian, not Peyton Manning, is the reason why the Colts turned around, he knew what he was doing in Buffalo and it's no surprise the Colts are great too.

You have to credit the football architects like Polian, Parcells, Belichick for turning around franchises, it's not the owner or the star player. If you separate architect from owner from star player, over time it is the architect who continues to turn around franchises and create winners.

 

[mgteich]

Do you make this up as you go? When did we suck as a team? When we were playing GB for the SB in 1997? I am not sure what is being discussed here. Parcells (the turnaround specialist) turned the team around, building a team around Bledsoe. After doing his job he left. What exactly was the turnaround?

Are you all saying we sucked for the three seasons under Carroll?
And Belichick and Brady then came in and saved the day? Really!? The crisis that we had had absolutely nothing to do with the team and its success. We had just been in the SB. In 1998 we were in the playoffs. The crisis was ownership and stability.

Kraft solved this problem and the rest is history. I would note in passing that we are greatly underestimating the effect of pioli who has been the best executive in the NFL for several years.

The reason why we were a laughingstock is because we sucked as a team.

I don't care how Kraft saved the team or how many sold out games we've had, the reason we are no longer a laughingstock is because we are an awesome team that WINS.