From Laughing Stock to Powerhouse - The man most responsible for the turnaround

[VJCPatriot]

There's a saying that goes "luck is the residue of design." Yes we got lucky in the draft, but the reason it finally turned around is that Mr. Kraft got the right football people in here to run the organization and he backed them all the way. Kraft was committed to bringing winning back to New England, and he's done that. 3 Superbowls so far, and there's room on the shelf for more!

Honestly, it's either Brady or Mo Lewis. You could easily say BB or Kraft, but if Brady doesn't get the starting job here and turn into the QB he turned into in such a short time, who knows what would've happened?

Kraft made the Pats a successful FRANCHISE, a successful BUSINESS, the Brady/BB combination has made it a successful powerhouse team, a model team for all other sports...and ultimately, Kraft's successful business somewhat requires a successful team...but just look at the teams around the league now and you'll see it's this simple - teams with a good quarterback win and teams that don't have one suffer.

If there's no Brady, this team is probably looking more like the Jets, Bills or Dolphins for the past 6 years, and while maybe it wouldn't be the laughingstock that two out of three of those franchises are, it certainly wouldn't be anywhere near a powerhouse.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

Kraft. From laughingstock to solid respectability was, in retrospect, inevitable as soon as he took over.

He learned quickly from the dumbass mistakes he did make (e.g., scouting Tebucky). Others that looked dumb at the time look better now (losing Parcells -- even hiring Pete Carroll, given how great a college coach that guy has proved to be).

I don't think anything Kraft runs could ever be anything other than solidly respectable or better.

And he did this while swinging for the fences, and he connected on one of his swings.

Without question Kraft set up the Franchise to succeed. And I am a hugely giant Brady fan and am ecstatic as hell he is our QB. That said, you people are pretty far off. This franchise owes its "powerhouse" status to BB and it ain't all that close. Another owner brings in BB and lets him do his thing? Put it this way, I quake in my boots to think about if BB would have stayed with the Jets and they would have given him complete control. The Patriots organization personify BB including Brady. BB's almost inhuman like ability to totally focus on winning. His bringing in the kind of players that put winning above all else. His ability to get every player to buy into the 'we win today' focus. His uncanny ability to put players in position to succeed. The insanely thought and over thought schemes that gouged teams (often more talented teams) right where they lived. His complete and utter immersion in everything football and every single stinkin angle that exists. God bless Kraft, build a bronze monument to Brady, but worship the football ground that BB walks on. Cause it is him this franchise owes most to. And I'd bet Brady would honestly agree with that too.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

It's not necessarily about the star QB. It's about the star player. Walsh's system did not revolve around the QB, it revolved around Jerry Rice's unbelievable talent. The Giants system revolved around their dominating defense led by the greatest outside linebacker to ever play. The Ravens system revolved around their dominating defense led by the greatest middle linebacker to ever play. The Bears, despite their dominating defense couldn't have done what they did without Payton, Singletary, and Carrier.

Bill Polian absolutely does not turn around the Colts without Peyton Manning, just like Belichick/Pioli do not turn around the Patriots without Tom Brady. These are the players around which the teams revolve; two of the best all-time (probably THE two best) at the most important position in football.

It's unbelievable that we Patriots fans continue to take Tom Brady for granted. This team would not even be a contender... indeed, it never would have been a contender... with any other QB outside of Manning (who we obviously would not have a chance at).

Continue to take Brady for granted? What? Seriously, the guy is probably the most loved man in Patriot Nation. The for granted award goes to BB if one was to read this thread. Obviously you need good players in position to succeed. And you need a good AND effective QB. But anyone who looks at this team and doesn't see the BB design of it from the QB on down to ST players is just not looking hard enough.
Never would have been a contender? Dude, our first SB season had an effective performance by TB. It was a head scratching awe of coaching wonder. The Patriots had no business being in the SB much less beating the Rams that year. We won it because of good solid D, good solid QB play and offensive play, fortuity, and probably one of the best, if not the best, single year coaching performance in the history of the game. Never would have been a contender? Puhlease. If the rumors were true (which they aren't) and this was BB's last year, you'd get a brutal lesson on how the "system and players over the coach" is not correct. The Patriot organization had that lesson taught to them before....

 

[patriotsdynasty12189]

Probably Brady. Everyone had part to do with it but I dont think we win 1 superbowl without Brady.

 

[RayClay]

There's a saying that goes "luck is the residue of design." Yes we got lucky in the draft, but the reason it finally turned around is that Mr. Kraft got the right football people in here to run the organization and he backed them all the way. Kraft was committed to bringing winning back to New England, and he's done that. 3 Superbowls so far, and there's room on the shelf for more!

How soon we forget. Kraft got the right football people in here?

First off, he inherited Parcells who led us to a super bowl and cntributed to drafting many of the players that built the dynasty (I won'tlist them, it's fairly obvious).

So he put a total incompetent over Parcells, ran him off and the "groceries" turned to garbage.

Don't believe me, believe one of the most trusted football personnel minds of the previous century.

http://archive.profootballweekly.com/content/archives/features_2000/nflist_081400.asp


Patriots’ recent draft history worst in NFL
By Joel Buchsbaum, Contributing editor
As published in print Aug. 14, 2000

1. New England — The Patriots were a unanimous choice as the worst drafters. Despite having what amounted to double drafts due to the losses of Bill Parcells and Curtis Martin, the Patriots blew top picks on players such as Chris Canty, Tebucky Jones, Rod Rutledge, Tony Simmons, Sedrick Shaw, Chris Carter, Ed Ellis, J’Juan Cherry, etc.

 

[RayClay]

Kraft set them up for success. BB merely carried after Kraft completely turned the franchise after a few owners and the incredibly incompetent Sullivan who bumbled his way into founding and owning them for 30 years.

After running off the evil Parcells and replacing him with that einstein of personnel, Bobby Grier, BB merely had to carry on the great foundation laid in place of the lucky Parcells Super Bowl team.

Here's what BB inherited.

Patriots the team that's most set up for failure
By Joel Buchsbaum, Contributing editor
As published in print March 5, 2001

# The Patriots are in salary-cap hell because they spent money unwisely due to their inability to evaluate their own talent.
# They got almost nothing out of the drafts during the Pete Carroll era, although in many of those years they had two first-round picks. One year, they even had double picks in all the higher rounds of the draft.
# In this day and age when everyone wants a mobile quarterback who can make plays with his feet, buy time and improvise, Patriots QB Drew Bledsoe gets F’s in all these areas. To compound matters, he was the highest-paid player in the league in 2000.
# At the other offensive skill positions, the Patriots have just one player who is of starting quality — WR Terry Glenn.
# On the offensive line, the only lineman whom scouts like is C Damien Woody, and many say he is a superior talent who is always overweight and will not push himself hard enough. "After all this time in the league, he still can’t even make the shotgun snap," said one scout.
# On defense, the only upper-echelon player the Pats can count on is SS Lawyer Milloy, and the defensive backfield is a disaster area aside from him.

LOL!! :bricks:

By the way, I voted for Belichick, good hire.

I am also in favor of owners being rich as hell, when possible.

 

[RayClay]

Also, I wouldn't have been surprised if Parcells had stuck around awhile had he not been undermined.

Coach's tend to enjoy coaching Super Bowl level teams with many young stars they helped develop.

Pretty good grocery list here:

Troy Brown, Drew Bledsoe, Chris Slade, Ty law, Ted Johnson, Curtis Martin,Jimmy Hitch****, Dave Wohlabaug,

Terry Glenn, Teddy Bruschi, Lawyer Milloy, Heath Irwin (of course this draft might have changed-without Grier Glenn we might have had a DLineman and Marvin Harrison or Eric Moulds or the 7 or 8 from this draft who became solid starters, with a low round Pats pic thrown in).

That's 4 years worth. Compare to the guy who took over at personnel.

Also linemen Ruschi and Lane. They were solid NFL starters for a while, though we remember them ending up as overpaid underachievers.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Just want to note how utterly aberrant it would be if the majority of fans of any other team said the OWNER was the savior.

But I believe it's true. He's the architect of a "vertically integrated" concept of team... including head coach, personnel guy, players, everybody buying in and drinking the kool-aid. He had the vision to see that BB himself was worth a ton of sacrifices, when nobody else could see anything but the guy who lost a bunch in cleveland and "would never be a head coach" (Parecell's words.)

PFnV

 

[RayClay]

Just want to note how utterly aberrant it would be if the majority of fans of any other team said the OWNER was the savior.

But I believe it's true. He's the architect of a "vertically integrated" concept of team... including head coach, personnel guy, players, everybody buying in and drinking the kool-aid. He had the vision to see that BB himself was worth a ton of sacrifices, when nobody else could see anything but the guy who lost a bunch in cleveland and "would never be a head coach" (Parecell's words.)

PFnV

You're entitled to your opinion, but you show a total lack of understanding of BBs and Parcells relationship.

BB worked for Parcells for years (he could have worked for anyone, he was the top assistant coach for years) because he was the best and demanding. When he said that quote, he was chiding BB.

He was training him to be a coach and sarcastically goading him into improving.

Hard to believe that's misunderstood with all we know about the two.

And Bobby Grier says Hi.

 

[tuckeverlasting]

full disclosure i am a pats homer or a boston patriots homer. i never liked the name change but i understood sullivan's point. boston wouldn't help him build a stadium and he was flying by the seat of his pants financially. that said, outside of the lisa olson fiasco with zeke" the patriot missile" mowatt, this team has never been a laughingstock. there were great pats teams in the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's. they've definitely had their ups and downs but a laughingstock ? no way ! unless you want to call every team a laughingstock at some point. to me, only a newbie would start a poll like this.

 

[RayClay]

full disclosure i am a pats homer or a boston patriots homer. i never liked the name change but i understood sullivan's point. boston wouldn't help him build a stadium and he was flying by the seat of his pants financially. that said, outside of the lisa olson fiasco with zeke" the patriot missile" mowatt, this team has never been a laughingstock. there were great pats teams in the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's. they've definitely had their ups and downs but a laughingstock ? no way ! unless you want to call every team a laughingstock at some point. to me, only a newbie would start a poll like this.

There was certainly some comedy as Sullivan tried to hold a team together against the odds.

When he hired the most sought after assistant in the league from the Super Bowl Jets (and their GM Sauer), it looked like a coup.

Turned out to be a coo coo. Clive rush had some mental problems and his reign was certainly bizarre.

On the other hand, the late 70's and 80's teams had as much talent as any except the current one and compared favorably to our super bowl winners, I believe.

I don't think anyone ever called John Hannah a laughingstock.

We think we have a good line, and we do, but it pales by comparison to most of the Hannah led lines, IMO.

I believe the Patriots of '78, with a collection of JAGs and a college fullback, still hold the record for most yards in a season.

I can't imagine a first round talent and legitimate home run threat like Maroney running behind that line.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

You're entitled to your opinion, but you show a total lack of understanding of BBs and Parcells relationship.

BB worked for Parcells for years (he could have worked for anyone, he was the top assistant coach for years) because he was the best and demanding. When he said that quote, he was chiding BB.

He was training him to be a coach and sarcastically goading him into improving.

Hard to believe that's misunderstood with all we know about the two.

And Bobby Grier says Hi.

Hey, I get it, Ray! It's just like when Parcells is the only coach who can get Terry Glenn to perform, by calling him "she" on television. Public humiliation is good for the soul! I dunno, I read the halberstam book, but not Patriot Reign... maybe it looks different in that one.

See, I disagree that this is the best way to motivate a guy who is already motivated. Seems possible to me that plenty of that behavior on Parcell's part could be written off to just being PO'd.

But hey, since you understand their relationship, and furthermore are buddies with Bobby Grier, well, I'll take your word for it. I only know what I see in the press, after all, and don't have the personal cliff notes you are privy to.

PFnV

 

[VJCPatriot]

I can't imagine a first round talent and legitimate home run threat like Maroney running behind that line.

LOL. LOL. Thanks, I needed that.

 

[RayClay]

Hey, I get it, Ray! It's just like when Parcells is the only coach who can get Terry Glenn to perform, by calling him "she" on television. Public humiliation is good for the soul! I dunno, I read the halberstam book, but not Patriot Reign... maybe it looks different in that one.

See, I disagree that this is the best way to motivate a guy who is already motivated. Seems possible to me that plenty of that behavior on Parcell's part could be written off to just being PO'd.

But hey, since you understand their relationship, and furthermore are buddies with Bobby Grier, well, I'll take your word for it. I only know what I see in the press, after all, and don't have the personal cliff notes you are privy to.

PFnV

You may disagree, but apparently Belichick disagreed with you.

When He left Cleveland he was still the most highly regarded assistant coach in football, (his game plan was in the HOF, I believe).

Why did he go back to working for Parcells, I guarantee he had other offers.

Well?

 

[RayClay]

LOL. LOL. Thanks, I needed that.

No problem.

He has a career rushing average of 4.2 yards a carry. I bet he would average at least 5.0 behind Hannah and Gray or Holloway.

 

[primetime]

Zeke Mowatt was an overblown incident. Anyone who has ever been in a locker room at any level of sport knows it isn't a place for the easily offended. Some of the things said in high school locker rooms would have made Zeke blush, so his comments about his package were hardly out of the ordinary.

The team wasn't a laughingstock because of that, but rather the 1-15, 2-14 seasons with Millen, Hodson, and Wilson at the helm. I had a set of Topps football cards from 1990, and each team had their own card with their schedule/results on the back and a season highlight on the front (Okoye rumbles for a 35 yard TD, Montana and Rice hookup for 6, etc.).... the Patriots "highlight" was "John Stephens is stood up at the line" with Stephens being gang tackled by about 8 players.

 

[RayClay]

Zeke Mowatt was an overblown incident. Anyone who has ever been in a locker room at any level of sport knows it isn't a place for the easily offended. Some of the things said in high school locker rooms would have made Zeke blush, so his comments about his package were hardly out of the ordinary.

The team wasn't a laughingstock because of that, but rather the 1-15, 2-14 seasons with Millen, Hodson, and Wilson at the helm. I had a set of Topps football cards from 1990, and each team had their own card with their schedule/results on the back and a season highlight on the front (Okoye rumbles for a 35 yard TD, Montana and Rice hookup for 6, etc.).... the Patriots "highlight" was "John Stephens is stood up at the line" with Stephens being gang tackled by about 8 players.

No doubt they had their fallow periods, but they were in the Super Bowl after the 1996 season and the young players on that team became the core of the 2001 team.

When bad, they were awful, but they did produce very high quality teams in each decade, which is more than many teams can say.

 

[RayClay]

LOL. LOL. Thanks, I needed that.

Laughter is good for you.

2 runs of over 50. yup I'd call that a home run!