From Laughing Stock to Powerhouse - The man most responsible for the turnaround

[BelichickFan]

It has to be Kraft, without him Belichick and Brady and probably somewhere else.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I often wish the people who start this particular poll had been reading the board the last time it surfaced, for about the 20th time in a couple of seasons...

I think the answer is Belichick, but for the reason he had the guts as well as the sense to resign from the JETS on that ****tail napkin. Otherwise Brady never plays here, Pioli never manages the cap here and Robert was planning to hire some retread so who knows what transpires over the last several seasons of Bledsoe's career here - but I doubt it would have been anything good.

And mg - we were a laughingstock. That's why they called us the Patsies.

 

[oldskool138]

That would be a GREAT name for a book about the Pats.

I don't know. "That: The story of the New England Patriots" doesn't really roll off the tongue.

 

[maverick4]

It has to be Belichick.

Kraft is a great owner but that doesn't make a team a powerhouse. He inherited Bledsoe and a rising team built by Parcells before he even bought the team, then let it languish under Pete Carroll and Bobby Grier. Without Belichick, Kraft would have hired some coach who stayed with Bledsoe for the rest of his career.

Tom Brady is maybe the GOAT QB, but he wasn't this kind of QB out of college, he worked hard and got excellent coaching to be where he is now. Would we have not won 1 or 2 superbowls with a Phil Simms-type of QB for the Patriots?

Bill Belichick is the guy. If it weren't for ownership screwing his career and moving from Cleveland to Baltimore, we might be talking about Belichick and his 3 superbowls for the Browns dynasty. That guy was already turning around a horrible Browns team, took them to the playoffs and beat the Pats, and if Modell hadn't moved who knows how his last season would actually have gone. Let's not forget this guy helped turned around the late 90's Jets and also was a huge part of 2 Giants Championships.

In a hypothetical bet where those 3 individuals were not on the same team, I would bet all of my assets that Belichick is the guy who has the powerhouse team 5 years from now.

 

[PatsDeb]

I voted for Bob Kraft even though I don't like him. While he is a big fan, he is in this to make as much $$ for himself and his family as he can. I cannot deny, however, that he put his $$ where his mouth is, bought a sorry-***** team, and brought in every one else that has made the team what it is today. Without him we are watching the St. Louis or LA Patriots. For that I thank him.

 

[maverick4]

I voted for Bob Kraft even though I don't like him. While he is a big fan, he is in this to make as much $$ for himself and his family as he can. I cannot deny, however, that he put his $$ where his mouth is, bought a sorry-***** team, and brought in every one else that has made the team what it is today. Without him we are watching the St. Louis or LA Patriots. For that I thank him.

Read my post above. Kraft is a great owner who saved the team, but that doesn't make the team a powerhouse.

The COACH (who in our case doubles as the GM) is far and away the most valuable member of any pro football team. More than any other sport, the coach determines the fortunes of a team.

 

[oldskool138]

Yeah but who hired BB? Kraft. Ergo making the Pats a "powerhouse".

 

[BradyManny]

The COACH (who in our case doubles as the GM) is far and away the most valuable member of any pro football team. More than any other sport, the coach determines the fortunes of a team.

That part is quite true - but the quarterback very well may be more valuable to the team than the coach. In this day anyway.

 

[maverick4]

I do agree that Kraft is the key. Without him, and without him choosing to pass on tens of millions, the patriots would be playing in St Louis or Hartford.

That has nothing to do with this question whatsoever.

 

[mtbykr]

Kraft without a doubt. It starts from the top down: BB wanted the right situation and that was Kraft so without Kraft there is no BB, no Brady, ect...

 

[maverick4]

Yeah but who hired BB? Kraft. Ergo making the Pats a "powerhouse".

That is ******ed.

That is like asking, 'who was the most important person on the 6-time champion Bulls teams?' and saying that the GM was the most important simply because he chose Michael Jordan, when the answer to that question is obviously Michael Jordan.

Yea Kraft hired Belichick, but if each man were alone, Kraft wouldn't have done as well hiring another coach (and Bledsoe would still be our starter), Brady might not even be a starter in the league without Belichick, but Belichick on his own, with pretty much any owner who hired him, would have built a winner.

 

[maverick4]

so without Kraft there is no BB, no Brady, ect...

That is such a silly conclusion.

Read above.

 

[oldskool138]

That is ******ed.

That is like asking, 'who was the most important person on the 6-time champion Bulls teams?' and saying that the GM was the most important simply because he chose Michael Jordan, when the answer to that question is obviously Michael Jordan.

Yea Kraft hired Belichick, but if each man were alone, Kraft wouldn't have done as well hiring another coach (and Bledsoe would still be our starter), Brady might not even be a starter in the league without Belichick, but Belichick on his own, with pretty much any owner who hired him, would have built a winner.

So the ownership takes no credit for hiring a coach that turns the franchise around. All the credit goes to the guy they hired. Whatever, man...whatever.

 

[maverick4]

The issue is which of the three, if alone, would have had the most success on their own?

Kraft cannot control the outcome of games, and his hiring of coaches and personnel is a mixed bag (hello Bobby Grier and Pete Carroll). He was also very meddlesome with Parcells which drove away Parcells. There is no telling how Kraft would do by himself; his first superbowl team was built by Parcells, and if Belichick hadn't had wanted to be his 'own man' and resign as NY Jets head coach, the Pats probably never win any superbowls and Bledsoe is still leading our playoff-less team.

Brady was barely even drafted, and wasn't as great a QB as he is today. For all we know, Brady could have never made any NFL team, or just be a backup all these years without being drafted by Belichick and also getting great coaching while working hard.

Belichick, in my mind, is the one guy of the 3 who would have been successful no matter what. He could have been hired by almost any other owner besides Kraft, and I firmly believe would still be a superbowl-winning coach.

 

[Bigdogx]

Plain and simple without Kraft this team would probably be in L.A. atm.

 

[maverick4]

So the ownership takes no credit for hiring a coach that turns the franchise around.

Sure Kraft gets credit, but he's not the main guy.

Other examples. Red Auerbach was the reason the Celtics were awesome, not the owner who had the luck to hire him.

Michael Jordan was the reason the Bulls became great, not the GM who made the no brainer decision to draft him.

Kraft is NOT the main reason why the Pats are so great. He's a great owner, but honestly if Belichick hadn't resigned from the NY Jets, the Jets may have 3 or 4 superbowls by now, Brady might never have been drafted, and the Pats under Kraft would have hired some coach who mired in mediocrity with Drew Bledsoe.

 

[BradyManny]

Brady was barely even drafted, and wasn't as great a QB as he is today. For all we know, Brady could have never made any NFL team, or just be a backup all these years without being drafted by Belichick and also getting great coaching while working hard.

I disagree with this quite a bit. First, I don't think Brady was expected to drop that low in the draft, second - his college career is skewed b/c of the BS Carr put him through. Frankly, I think Brady becomes a great QB no matter where he goes. He has all the attributes - both physical and mental - that make a great QB. You can't hold it against him that teams weren't able to see this in him.

 

[oldskool138]

Kraft is NOT the main reason why the Pats are so great.

Looks like you're in the distinct minority. What do the Bulls have to do with the Pats? The NBA draft (lottery) and the NFL draft are way different...You know what? I've said my piece. I'm with the Kraft voters. Other posters you are free to argue with Maverick...good luck.

 

[mgteich]

Were we the patsies in 1976? in 1985? in 1997? Teams have ups and downs. Parcells, Bledsoe and the patriots were in the SB in January 1997.

Then there was Pete Carroll. Were we the patsies; really? We were in the playoffs in 1998. Even in 1999, we were 8-8. It was under Belichick that we had a losing season.

Were there those fans laughing at the patriots? Sure, there are those who do so now. The franchise was in transition becasuse of the change in ownership. There was much to decide as the team went from the Sullivans to the future. There were many stumbles. We almost ended in St. Louis. But we were not the laughing stock of the league in those years. Many of us disagreed with the drafting strategy, but that doesn't make the team a joke. We had a competitive team.

If you wish to go back to when the team changed, you need to go back to the choices of Bledsoe and Parcells. It was those choices that turned around the franchise. Kraft well understands that Foxborough is the stadium that Drew built. The saddest day in Kraft's life was when he had to say goodbye to Drew. Have we done better with Brady? Sure! Kraft, Belichick, and pioli and worked together to make sure that the team has all it needs.

We need to review some of the old tapes of Brady, the great "find". He couldn't throw 30 yards down the field. To his credit, he is the hardest worker of any QB not named Peyton. He whas mad an enormourmous difference over the years.

Personally, I think that there are many quarterbacks that would have been successful in New England. This is part of the reason that I consstantly beg for a veteran backup. This team could be in the playoffs this year under lots of quarterbacks.
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TRY THIS
If we had traded our front office (including ownership and coaches) with that of other teams immediately after last year's SB, where would we now?Consider SD or GB or Minny or lots of others. There are lots of teams that would be much better off if they had our ownership, our player additions and draft pickups and our coaching throughout the year.

Personally, I have no question that had we traded ownerships, it is NOT the patriots that would have HFA at this point. Certainly PITT and SD would have better "teams".

I often wish the people who start this particular poll had been reading the board the last time it surfaced, for about the 20th time in a couple of seasons...

I think the answer is Belichick, but for the reason he had the guts as well as the sense to resign from the JETS on that ****tail napkin. Otherwise Brady never plays here, Pioli never manages the cap here and Robert was planning to hire some retread so who knows what transpires over the last several seasons of Bledsoe's career here - but I doubt it would have been anything good.

And mg - we were a laughingstock. That's why they called us the Patsies.

 

[Bigdogx]

How can you not be with the Kraft voters, we would not even have a professional football team here anymore if it was not for Kraft! Without Kraft there is no Belichick or brady here, how can the guy not be the reason for the turnaround.