First full pads practice in 3 weeks: Talib & Amendola present/Kelly & Washington not.

[Rob0729]

Re: Per Twitter: Talib, Amendola at practice; Washington, Kelly still out

Because Blunt rarely takes a knee

Huh? The Pats have played 7 games and Blount has had 10 return on 32 kick offs. That means he has had 1.4 returns game or he returns the ball once every 3.2 kicks.

Also, Blount is averaging 23.1 per return which is 18th in the league. But that number is skewed because a couple of players have 105 yard TD returns.

So Blount really isn't as bad as people want to make him out to be. He clearly takes a knee quite a bit (more than 66% of the time). At worst, he is averaging 3.1 yard beyond where the Pats would get the ball in a touchback and his longest run was 29 yards so it isn't skewed by one long run.

 

[neuronet]

Re: Per Twitter: Talib, Amendola at practice; Washington, Kelly still out

Given the news that Talib didn't have his thigh pads and still not looking good, I doubt if he plays on Sunday.

The Blitz with Jeff Howe & Karen Guregian | Boston Herald

No way he plays. Those flexor issues flare up suddenly, need more than one week off.

I say this as someone who is neither a medical doctor nor familiar with the situation at all, so you know I have to be right.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: First full pads practice in 3 weeks: Talib & Amendola present/Kelly & Washington

BTW, the week off for Amendola might have been a good thing for his groin injury. He might be much closer to 100% this week. Can't see him not playing this week since when you come back from a concussion, you are back. You can't pass the concussion test if you have lingering affects.

 

[Mack Herron]

Re: First full pads practice in 3 weeks: Talib & Amendola present/Kelly & Washington

BTW, the week off for Amendola might have been a good thing for his groin injury. He might be much closer to 100% this week. Can't see him not playing this week since when you come back from a concussion, you are back. You can't pass the concussion test if you have lingering affects.

He has a muscle that is completely torn from the bone. It is not going to heal or get better. As others have pointed out, he is not going to be close to "100%" this week or any other week this year. In addition, he returned sooner than most do from this type of injury. The open question is how well is he able to play through the injury and the pain. He is a gutsy competitor but he is human.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: First full pads practice in 3 weeks: Talib & Amendola present/Kelly & Washington

He has a muscle that is completely torn from the bone. It is not going to heal or get better. As others have pointed out, he is not going to be close to "100%" this week or any other week this year. In addition, he returned sooner than most do from this type of injury. The open question is how well is he able to play through the injury and the pain. He is a gutsy competitor but he is human.

You do realize that if he had surgery, they would have done what happened naturally and separate the muscle from the bone. If he had surgery, his return date was upwards to 6 weeks which would be back this week.

He could be close to 100% soon. In fact if it was a partial tear, it may have been worse.

He may never be 100% this year, but he will heal and get better at some point. The reason he didn't have the surgery was because he already had what happened in the surgery.

 

[Mack Herron]

Re: First full pads practice in 3 weeks: Talib & Amendola present/Kelly & Washington

You do realize that if he had surgery, they would have done what happened naturally and separate the muscle from the bone. If he had surgery, his return date was upwards to 6 weeks which would be back this week.

He could be close to 100% soon. In fact if it was a partial tear, it may have been worse.

He may never be 100% this year, but he will heal and get better at some point. The reason he didn't have the surgery was because he already had what happened in the surgery.

Your effusive optimism is appreciated but you are incorrect Rob on a couple of counts. First, surgery that they contemplated would have re-attached not separated the ruptured tendon. There is no way to separate it further once it was ruptured. They separate the muscle from the bone sometimes to treat chronic groin pain, not to treat acute injuries in athletes. Second, it will not heal. Ruptured tendons will not spontaneously reattach. He simply has to get used to the pain and the absence of the muscle function, but there is a permanent injury there.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: First full pads practice in 3 weeks: Talib & Amendola present/Kelly & Washington

Your effusive optimism is appreciated but you are incorrect Rob on a couple of counts. First, surgery that they contemplated would have re-attached not separated the ruptured tendon. There is no way to separate it further once it was ruptured. They separate the muscle from the bone sometimes to treat chronic groin pain, not to treat acute injuries in athletes. Second, it will not heal. Ruptured tendons will not spontaneously reattach. He simply has to get used to the pain and the absence of the muscle function, but there is a permanent injury there.

The surgery they were contemplating was for a sports hernia and not the adductor muscle. They determined either to forgo the surgery on the hernia or they decided that he did not have a hernia. They were never considering surgery for the torn adductor.

Amendola's timetable to return remains fluid, according to the report. Furthermore, Amendola has received conflicting news from doctors on whether he has a sports hernia, according to the report, which stated he would miss about one month if hernia surgery is required.

If surgery is not required, it is possible that Amendola could return in less than a month.

Danny Amendola of New England Patriots has torn adductor muscles in hip, may need surgery, according to report - ESPN Boston

And doctors surgically treat partially torn adductor muscles by cutting them away from the bone:

Doctors often treat chronic groin pain by snipping the adductor longus – one of the muscles in the groin – from the pubic bone. Since Amendola's tendon ruptured, he essentially did the doctors' work for them, eliminating the need for surgery during the season. It also means he has a faster recovery time than if he had a groin operation.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--p...in-but-recovering-at-fast-pace-211510361.html

My "effusive optimism" in this case is actually understanding the facts of Amendola's injury. I guess in this case, the optimistic view is the correct view.

Again, my point stands. Another week off. Another week progressing closer to 100%.

And here is a link to a study that players with a non-surgery treatment for a torn adductor showed a faster return to playing at a a professional level in the NFL (3-12 weeks) than surgery:

http://www.harbinclinic.com/umages/pdfs/adductor.pdf

 

[upstater1]

Re: Per Twitter: Talib, Amendola at practice; Washington, Kelly still out

Huh? The Pats have played 7 games and Blount has had 10 return on 32 kick offs. That means he has had 1.4 returns game or he returns the ball once every 3.2 kicks.

Also, Blount is averaging 23.1 per return which is 18th in the league. But that number is skewed because a couple of players have 105 yard TD returns.

So Blount really isn't as bad as people want to make him out to be. He clearly takes a knee quite a bit (more than 66% of the time). At worst, he is averaging 3.1 yard beyond where the Pats would get the ball in a touchback and his longest run was 29 yards so it isn't skewed by one long run.

You're forgetting that they take into account depth in the end zone when they measure return average.

If you grab the ball at the 109 and return it 23.1 yards, you've gotten your team out to the 14 yard line.

 

[Froob]

Re: Per Twitter: Talib, Amendola at practice; Washington, Kelly still out

Put Marcus Cannon back there. Who cares? Is there more of a useless position than kick returner in the NFL today? I don't get why people is so upset it is Blount to take a knee in the end zone over anyone else.

Personally, I am more concerned about the Pats' FB situation.

Tell the ravens and Jacoby Jones that. Had they put a Legarrette Blount back there we'd be talking about a niners repeat this year and about how Joe Flacco will never get it done.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Per Twitter: Talib, Amendola at practice; Washington, Kelly still out

You're forgetting that they take into account depth in the end zone when they measure return average.

If you grab the ball at the 109 and return it 23.1 yards, you've gotten your team out to the 14 yard line.

I admit I am wrong, but who returns a kick these days from nine yards deep in the endzone. Also it counts for kicks caught outside the endzone. The Jets this past weekend had a lot of shallow kicks whereBlount caught them either one to three yards in the end zone or just outside the end zone. It goes both ways.

I am guessing if you remove the end zone yardage from his average, he still averages 19-20 YPR.

If you are going to count 9 yards in the end zone as part of the average, only five returners have over a 29 yard per return average. Say the average catch of return was 6 yards deep in the end zone, only eight returners have over 26 yards per return. If you want to look at 5 yards deep in the endzone, only 12 returners average over 25 yards per return.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Per Twitter: Talib, Amendola at practice; Washington, Kelly still out

Tell the ravens and Jacoby Jones that. Had they put a Legarrette Blount back there we'd be talking about a niners repeat this year and about how Joe Flacco will never get it done.

Elite kick returners are one thing. But there are only about two or three in the entire league. The rest of the league have kick returners who usually get to the 20 or less on most returns.

And even the elite kick returners might break one every once and a while, but usually don't get beyond the 20 on most returns.

 

[Froob]

Re: Per Twitter: Talib, Amendola at practice; Washington, Kelly still out

Elite kick returners are one thing. But there are only about two or three in the entire league. The rest of the league have kick returners who usually get to the 20 or less on most returns.

And even the elite kick returners might break one every once and a while, but usually don't get beyond the 20 on most returns.

Healthy Cribbs is an elite return man. I guess Washington must be close to being healthy because he'd be an elite return man as well. Still would have thought he'd get the Cole treatment if he was going to be out a few week.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Per Twitter: Talib, Amendola at practice; Washington, Kelly still out

Healthy Cribbs is an elite return man. I guess Washington must be close to being healthy because he'd be an elite return man as well. Still would have thought he'd get the Cole treatment if he was going to be out a few week.

If Washington turns into an elite return man, then he is an upgrade. Otherwise, who cares? Again with the exception of an elite few (and they don't mean as much anymore), kick returners are a dime a dozen at this point.

 

[Mack Herron]

Re: First full pads practice in 3 weeks: Talib & Amendola present/Kelly & Washington

The surgery they were contemplating was for a sports hernia and not the adductor muscle. They determined either to forgo the surgery on the hernia or they decided that he did not have a hernia. They were never considering surgery for the torn adductor.



Danny Amendola of New England Patriots has torn adductor muscles in hip, may need surgery, according to report - ESPN Boston

And doctors surgically treat partially torn adductor muscles by cutting them away from the bone:



Y! SPORTS

My "effusive optimism" in this case is actually understanding the facts of Amendola's injury. I guess in this case, the optimistic view is the correct view.

Again, my point stands. Another week off. Another week progressing closer to 100%.

And here is a link to a study that players with a non-surgery treatment for a torn adductor showed a faster return to playing at a a professional level in the NFL (3-12 weeks) than surgery:

http://www.harbinclinic.com/umages/pdfs/adductor.pdf

The YAHOO article reports a treatment that is sometimes used for CHRONIC groin pain. The article, and you, overlook the fact that that was not what Amendola had. He had an acute rupture. The options here are surgical reattachment or leave it. With the latter, the assumption is not sudden spontaneous re-attachment. It is that he can return to function with an anatomical injury, which is the point I was making.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: First full pads practice in 3 weeks: Talib & Amendola present/Kelly & Washington

The YAHOO article reports a treatment that is sometimes used for CHRONIC groin pain. The article, and you, overlook the fact that that was not what Amendola had. He had an acute rupture. The options here are surgical reattachment or leave it. With the latter, the assumption is not sudden spontaneous re-attachment. It is that he can return to function with an anatomical injury, which is the point I was making.

Again, read the medical study from the American Journal of Sports Medicine entitled "Success of Nonoperative Management of Adductor Longus Tendon Ruptures in National Football League Athletes" that I linked to at the bottom of my post that studied NFL players specifically with the injury Amendola has and the best and fastest way to return to playing at a "professional football level" is by not doing the surgery. You need to read up on this.

Not only is surgically re-attaching the tendon not necessary, it is potentially a slower path to returning to 100% than a non-surgical method that Amendola is on.

No offense, but I will take the findings by the American Journal of Sports Medicine over your medical opinion. According to them, he could definitely return to 100% this season. Medical science as it relates to NFL players is on my side of"effusive optimism".

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Per Twitter: Talib, Amendola at practice; Washington, Kelly still out

Given the news that Talib didn't have his thigh pads and still not looking good, I doubt if he plays on Sunday.

The Blitz with Jeff Howe & Karen Guregian | Boston Herald

Where does it say he is not looking good?
He wasnt wearing thigh pads, which by itself means nothing.

 

[Froob]

Re: Per Twitter: Talib, Amendola at practice; Washington, Kelly still out

If Washington turns into an elite return man, then he is an upgrade. Otherwise, who cares? Again with the exception of an elite few (and they don't mean as much anymore), kick returners are a dime a dozen at this point.

Still, I don't know why we don't have someone like Brandon Tate who could once in a while take one back. That'd be a huge game changer especially with this offense. Barring a Dan Connolly like special team botch it won't ever happen with Blount.

 

[Mack Herron]

Re: First full pads practice in 3 weeks: Talib & Amendola present/Kelly & Washington

Again, read the medical study from the American Journal of Sports Medicine entitled "Success of Nonoperative Management of Adductor Longus Tendon Ruptures in National Football League Athletes" that I linked to at the bottom of my post that studied NFL players specifically with the injury Amendola has and the best and fastest way to return to playing at a "professional football level" is by not doing the surgery. You need to read up on this.

Not only is surgically re-attaching the tendon not necessary, it is potentially a slower path to returning to 100% than a non-surgical method that Amendola is on.

No offense, but I will take the findings by the American Journal of Sports Medicine over your medical opinion. According to them, he could definitely return to 100% this season. Medical science as it relates to NFL players is on my side of"effusive optimism".

I know the article and said nothing to contradict it. The article is evaluating the need for re-attachment:

direct
anatomical attachment of the adductor longus tendon to its origin on the symphysis pubis is not a requirement for high level athletic function.

The reason that athletes return faster without the surgery is not that the tendon is healed. Instead, the athlete can learn to accommodate the pain and loss of the function of the adductor muscle to which the tendon is attached. That means overcoming things like loss of strength and hip stability. The relevance of all this is that if Amendola did indeed suffer a complete adductor rupture (reported but we don't really know), he is not 100% physically and will not be 100% next week either. He may well learn to play at a high level despite not being physically as he was before. We all hope that is the case. But we should also not be surprised if he is not quite the same player because he is playing with an injury, specifically a ruptured tendon.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Re: Per Twitter: Talib, Amendola at practice; Washington, Kelly still out

Still, I don't know why we don't have someone like Brandon Tate who could once in a while take one back. That'd be a huge game changer especially with this offense. Barring a Dan Connolly like special team botch it won't ever happen with Blount.

Never understood the haste to jettison Tate

 

[Brady6]

Buchanan absent and Ninkovich limited

Rob Ninkovich has been added to the injury list with an apparent groin injury. In addition to that Michael Buchanan missed today’s practice however it was not injury related, does anyone have any insight into that situation?

The Andre Carter is looking smarter by the hour :thumb:

The Blitz with Jeff Howe & Karen Guregian | Boston Herald