ESPN: Lombardi on Pats "starting price" for Cassel

[JSn]

Has anyone played flip-flop? If the NEP lost Brady forever, or worse... if our QB was Tarvaris Jackson, would we not be screaming at the top of our lungs for the Pats to get Cassel, the successful back-up to the GOAT who threw AND rushed some very respectable numbers in his FIRST YEAR as a starter?

Obviously, we'd all over using our first rounder there rather than on a college Junior QB...

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I really hope he is right. All Pats fans should.

His saying he wouldn't be surprised if Cassel signs here for 2 years 20 million tends to make me doubt the rest of the article. The tag is 1 year close to 15. Why does a player in Cassel's situation sign for an additonal year at just 5? Even if he stays here next year under the tag and does nothing more than hold a clipboard for Brady he would get much more than 5m as a free agent 12 months from now.

To address this point and Miguel's, Lombardi didn't explicitly say this, but basically the entire contract would need to be guaranteed, and it'd need to be mostly salary (to ensure that he'd be tradeable).

 

[Tyler.Durden]

The concern will be what effect BB and mcdaniels has had on cassel, and is it the "system".

we should still get some nice chips for him though.

 

[IcyPatriot]

To address this point and Miguel's, Lombardi didn't explicitly say this, but basically the entire contract would need to be guaranteed, and it'd need to be mostly salary (to ensure that he'd be tradeable).

Yes ... good point here.
Bonuses accelerate anyways during trades anyways so what would be the point.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Yes ... good point here.
Bonuses accelerate anyways during trades anyways so what would be the point.

Normally, teams can spread out a large cap hit over two years (as the Pats did when they released Dillon). But if a player is released/traded this year, with 2010 set to be uncapped, 100% of any future prorations automatically transfers back to 2009.

 

[amazinPats]

For the sake of discussion, let's just say Brady comes back healthy and wants to play four more years (I know in the past, he's said he wants to play much longer, but just for grins). What do you do with two starting QBs? I'm an old guy and I remember teams doing that: the old Rams had Bob Waterfield and Norm van Brocklin, both hall of famers, share for 4 or 5 years. The 49ers had three guys share the QB position a couple of years, but one of them was mostly a running QB, like out of a wildcat position. But, we're going back 40 - 50 years here, and I don't remember it being done since. I'm sure there have been a few other times teams have intentionally shared the QB position, but it's been more out of indecision of who's better.

Again, what do you do with two proven starting QBs? I'm the type that hates to see good players move on, and I'd hate to lose either of them, but.....

I know what you are saying. A very capable qarterback riding the bench can serve as an infection which can destroy the team as well. I assume that Cassel signs an extension with the understanding that he will be the man within two years. Belichick has a history of dumping popular and previously-successful quarterbacks towards the tail end of their careers, such as Bledsoe and Bernie Kosar.

On the other hand, if Brady shows some real fire and gives some evidence that he will remain great for another four years, then Cassel would have to be traded or let go as a free agent by the next couple of years. Again, we need Matt's cooperation here. If he stays with the team, he has to understand that he will be riding the bench for a couple of years; otherwise, it wouldn't work at all.

 

[ALP]

I know what you are saying. A very capable qarterback riding the bench can serve as an infection which can destroy the team as well. I assume that Cassel signs an extension with the understanding that he will be the man within two years. Belichick has a history of dumping popular and previously-successful quarterbacks towards the tail end of their careers, such as Bledsoe and Bernie Kosar.

On the other hand, if Brady shows some real fire and gives some evidence that he will remain great for another four years, then Cassel would have to be traded or let go as a free agent by the next couple of years. Again, we need Matt's cooperation here. If he stays with the team, he has to understand that he will be riding the bench for a couple of years; otherwise, it wouldn't work at all.

true, but lets not kid ourselves either...

Bledsoe and Kosar are NO Tom Brady

the stakes here are different, much different
i had rather have cassel leave now through a trade, and us get the chance to get him back after brady retires if need be

 

[jcdavey]

no team is going to be ******ed enough to give up anything more than a 3rd rounder for a system qb

but if you get more than that, congrats on finding a very ******ed trade partner

 

[ALP]

no team is going to be ******ed enough to give up anything more than a 3rd rounder for a system qb

but if you get more than that, congrats on finding a very ******ed trade partner

im sorry, and what team are you?

the team that gets cassel, is gonna save itself

 

[Gwedd]

no team is going to be ******ed enough to give up anything more than a 3rd rounder for a system qb

but if you get more than that, congrats on finding a very ******ed trade partner

Are you kidding? Look what the JESTS gave for Favre! Suckers, er, NFL GM's are born every minute.

Besides that, we're talking about Cassel, NOT some system QB. System QB's simply don't exist.

 

[BelichickFan]

im sorry, and what team are you?

He's a fan of the team that gave away Drew Brees for nothing.

 

[Deus Irae]

no team is going to be ******ed enough to give up anything more than a 3rd rounder for a system qb

but if you get more than that, congrats on finding a very ******ed trade partner

2 questions for you:

1.) In your mind, what is a "system QB"?

2.) What is it about Cassel that makes you claim he is a "system QB"?

 

[spacecrime]

no team is going to be ******ed enough to give up anything more than a 3rd rounder for a system qb

but if you get more than that, congrats on finding a very ******ed trade partner

All QBs play in a system. If a team is smart, it will utilize a QBs strengths and minimize his weaknesses. THe Steelers did that with Rothiesberger his first year. Mobile QBs will have different plays called than pocket QBs. Most rookie QBs are given less.

It is only common sense. If a team traded for Cassel and ran Vick-type plays, they would be ******ed. If you think that NFL teams would do that, then you are ******ed.

Certainly a system can help a QB's stats, but a system does not help with reads, check downs, accurate throws, etc.

It is the easiest thing in the world to say that Brady is a system QB, and that is exactly what ******ed "fans" said in 2002. Not Charger fans - Chargers sucked back then. Raider fans were all agog with the terms "one-year-wonder" and "system QB."

Nice to see Charger fans no smarter than Raider fans.

That said, I rooted hard for the Chargers last week, and am very pleased with their win. Now you can go back to being the San Diego Playoff Chokers again.

I'd like to see you win one more game, but I doubt you will, history being what it is.

 

[Miguel]

To address this point and Miguel's, Lombardi didn't explicitly say this, but basically the entire contract would need to be guaranteed, and it'd need to be mostly salary (to ensure that he'd be tradeable).

Here's my problem with that scenario.

As an UFA (tagged or not) Cassel is looking at getting a big signing bonus in the spring. Why would he agree to pass up that type of coin for 17 weekly installments of a smaller amount?? A dollar in March is worth more than a dollar in September. All Lombardi just gave his guess at the parameters of the deal. It is this board who is saying that the deal has to be guaranteed salary (now mostly salary).

 

[ALP]

He's a fan of the team that gave away Drew Brees for nothing.

hmm...it was a smart move, brees was only a system qb, LMAO

its not like he'll ever come close to the season passing yards record or anything

 

[Watson's IQ]

I realize I'm in the minority on this issue, which is fine - you all make some very good points.

It boils down to this: If I'm an opposing GM, have I seen enough of Cassel to warrant giving up my first round pick, thus deciding he's going to be my franchise QB? To me the answer would be no, but then there's a reason I'm not an NFL GM.

 

[aluminum seats]

hmm...it was a smart move, brees was only a system qb, LMAO

its not like he'll ever come close to the season passing yards record or anything

This is a little off-topic, but I don't know that it got enough attention--Brees had an open receiver for the record on the last play of the season! Considering that there are few records in football people actually know (unlike baseball) this was a pretty big deal, really. And since I don't like Marino, I was kinda bummed he missed the throw.

 

[BelichickFan]

It boils down to this: If I'm an opposing GM, have I seen enough of Cassel to warrant giving up my first round pick, thus deciding he's going to be my franchise QB? To me the answer would be no, but then there's a reason I'm not an NFL GM.

Think of it this way :

If you are the Vikings and have pick #23 what options for your "franchise QB" do you have ? And do you have to get a "franchise QB" or will a QB who you can win with be sufficient ?

 

[Tucker]

I personally wouldnt mind Detriot's #20(from Dallas) and their #3, or even #20 and a future pick in 2010. Then the Lions could draft Andre Smith or Michael Oher to protect him with the #1 over all. That's what I'm hoping for.

 

[ALP]

I realize I'm in the minority on this issue, which is fine - you all make some very good points.

It boils down to this: If I'm an opposing GM, have I seen enough of Cassel to warrant giving up my first round pick, thus deciding he's going to be my franchise QB? To me the answer would be no, but then there's a reason I'm not an NFL GM.

true, but as a GM, u can also say, have i seen enough of this guy in college? and does his success in college translate to the pro game?

missing large on a 1st rd draft pick to me seems much more a risk then taking cassel, who you know that at the very least can not HURT ur team