Edelman is back

[patfanken]

Thompkins sucked, and Boyce wasn't even good enough to get him off the field. The sort of growth they'd need is a lot more than you typically get in a year 1 - year 2 jump.

I'm tired of watching Manning get the likes of Harrison, Thomas and Wayne at outside WR while Brady has to make do with scraps since the Moss years. Let's see them get the man a legit outside WR duo.

WOW! Another perfect example of a blanket DI evaluation fueled by nothing but his massive ego. Its rather interesting that you mention Reggie Wayne who had 27 catches for an astounding 345 yds and zero TD's in his rookie year. Or that you mention DThomas who made people leap for joy after a rookie season of 22 catches for 283 yds, and 2 TDs.

Now given that comparison how can we POSSIBLY think that Thompkins' modest production of 32/466/4TD's in 4 fewer games than Wayne and 1 fewer than Thomas, can amount to anything when comparing rookie years. DI, buddy, this is the double play of wrong. Even Marvin Harrison needed 5 more games to get to 800+ yds in his rookie year

Its clear you have joined the group who get stiffies whenever another WR becomes available, and we need to redo our WR corps.....again. But it should be very clear by now that the Pats are NOT going to waste draft capital on a WR. Nor are they going to spend more than minimum wage on any WR FA. at this point

Read it and weep DI, Next season's WR corps (barring injury) is going to be Dobson, Thompkins, Amendola, Boyce and Edelman. Those are the 5 WR's (plus MSlater) most likely to be on the 53 man roster. We are not going to carry more than 6.

So while I expect for there to be a minimum wage vet WR or 2 and some UDFA's to compete for a job to be added over the next 4 months, unless there is an injury those are the 5 guys who are going to be our WR's. So by your way of thinking the Pats might as well concede the season.

 

[resdubwhite]

I hope that you will happy with our 6th or 7th round addition.

Where did I say I was going to be happy with that approach.

 

[Rob0729]

Thompkins sucked, and Boyce wasn't even good enough to get him off the field. The sort of growth they'd need is a lot more than you typically get in a year 1 - year 2 jump.

I'm tired of watching Manning get the likes of Harrison, Thomas and Wayne at outside WR while Brady has to make do with scraps since the Moss years. Let's see them get the man a legit outside WR duo.

Dobson was actually Brady's primary WR in the last few games prior to him breaking his foot. He was really starting to emerge. If he didn't get injured, he could have finished the year with over 800 yards and over 6 or 7 TDs. Even with the injury, he holds the record for the best rookie season for a WR during Belichick era. He showed he is definitely able to become a solid #2 and flashes of being a solid #1 (not Calvin Johnson, but pretty good).

Thompkins definitely struggled at times this past year, but also showed flashes. That is all Branch did his rookie season (although he was more polished) and more than Givens showed.

Ken pointed out the receivers you pointed out about Manning didn't have great rookie seasons. Harrison had a better rookie season than either Dobson or Thompkins, but he the 19th pick in the first round when he was drafted and should have been more polished than either Dobson or Thompkins. Wayne was also a first round pick and he has a worse rookie season than Dobson.

 

[ensoul]

Good news. Pats got what should be their 3rd option back. Now they need to go after a first and second option.

 

[RobAllan]

If they get any kind of WR1 at all, I will eat a tremendous amount of crow about our effort and do so happily. I really thought this year was going to be a step down from last, but if they get something on offense that will allow them to score points with their HOF QB, I will be more than pleasantly surprised. I'm still not sure what their play is for a WR1, but hopefully they get someone in. It doesn't have to be Moss, just someone to run a few out routes and win some jump balls.

 

[Se7eN]

Glad he got resigned, my favorite player is back again. :rocker:

 

[iapatsfan]

Isn't part of the weakness that he has hardly ever had an option that can catch the deep ball. It is not like any QB actually throws the ball better deep. Look at the QB's that seem to throw the best deep ball. They tend to just launch them down field and have WRs go up and make plays.

Manning - D. Thomas
E. Manning - PI or Nicks
Rodgers - Nelson (though Rodgers probably does throw the best deep ball)
Flacco - PI or Smith

I could go on and on, but it appears that the deep throw is usually a lower percentage throw anyway. The QBs that look the best have better personnel. That is just my opinion though. I could be wrong.

If you watched Brady the last two years, you've seen how bad Brady throws a deep ball. It's not just his WRs. His downfield throwing sucks, and defenses know it. We could have Calvin Johnson out there, and defenses would still play press. The only option for Brady at this point in his career is to get receivers that get open quick, or get him dominate pass catching TEs. A downfield pass catcher won't make a difference with Brady at QB.

 

[patfanken]

BTW- although I meant to be critical of DI's position, after re-reading my original post, I apologize if it came off as being too virulent or personal It wasn't meant to be, but I can see how it could be interpreted that way.

I had just reached my usual low boiling point reading post after post from those proposing adding more WR's plus the constant threads about every WR that becomes available. The fact is that BB has spoken. If he had felt there was a need to add experienced outside WR's to our existing corps, then he wouldn't have brought back Edelman. He would have used that cap capital and gone after someone like Jones or Nix.

But now our "dance card" is full. So unless some minimum wage FA WR explodes in TC and flatly beats out one of the 5 guys mentioned, or some rookie WR drops so low that he becomes just too much of a value (see TBrady), it is what it is. Lets move on to more important areas

 

[PATS16N0]

If you watched Brady the last two years, you've seen how bad Brady throws a deep ball. It's not just his WRs. His downfield throwing sucks, and defenses know it. We could have Calvin Johnson out there, and defenses would still play press. The only option for Brady at this point in his career is to get receivers that get open quick, or get him dominate pass catching TEs. A downfield pass catcher won't make a difference with Brady at QB.

"Sucked" is a strong word. He's hit some lasers down field right on target.
His misses in the AFCCG were cringe worthy but he nailed them pretty often through out the season too. Wasn't his throwing hand mangled?

 

[RobAllan]

If you watched Brady the last two years, you've seen how bad Brady throws a deep ball. It's not just his WRs. His downfield throwing sucks, and defenses know it. We could have Calvin Johnson out there, and defenses would still play press. The only option for Brady at this point in his career is to get receivers that get open quick, or get him dominate pass catching TEs. A downfield pass catcher won't make a difference with Brady at QB.

This is simply not true. The last time the Pats had a true deep threat his name was Randy Moss. We know what kind of numbers that put up. You can't count Ocho Stinko- there's a reason he's not with any other team either.

The reality is deep balls look very bad when routes are run improperly and/or when timing with WRs is "off." The good WRs also adjust their pace when running too as they look back for the ball. Heck you get QBs like Flacco that just fling the ball up and the better WRs come down with them.

Since we've seen what Brady can do with a true WR1 in Moss, it's best to give Brady the benefit of the doubt when the deep balls go awry. That's not to say he can't make mistakes, but having a good receiver deep will still yield great results with Brady. He didn't suddenly forget how to throw deep. His arm strength looks just fine, we know his mind is still right, so that would indicate a problem with WRs we've had.

If we'd gotten a Fitzgerald or a Megatron, we'd have a 50-burger offense just like before. That said, with our new D shaping up, we probably don't need 50 a game. But we definitely need something else at WR for that D to matter unless one of those rookies actually takes a true second year jump and becomes consistent.

 

[voluntarysaftey]

I am loving this offseason.

 

[SuperStang83]

If you watched Brady the last two years, you've seen how bad Brady throws a deep ball. It's not just his WRs. His downfield throwing sucks, and defenses know it. We could have Calvin Johnson out there, and defenses would still play press. The only option for Brady at this point in his career is to get receivers that get open quick, or get him dominate pass catching TEs. A downfield pass catcher won't make a difference with Brady at QB.

I see where you are coming from, but I don't totally agree. While they weren't extremely deep balls, lets not forget the amount of passes that bounced directly off of Vereen's hands coming out of a those wheel routes! Man was I upset those few times!!

 

[Deus Irae]

Thompkins did not "suck," he did well for a rookie learning the ropes while battling injury. He had 32 catches in 12 games. He should continue to develop into a reliable possession receiver/red zone target. Boyce was the most raw of the three but is fast and has KR potential; jury's still out on him. Dobson can be your legit downfield threat.

Thompkins sucked, but you should feel free to use "struggled" if you prefer. His catch numbers are misleading, because he was the WR1 for a period of time, and we can all remember how bad that time was. Boyce couldn't beat him out. They need huge year 2 jumps. It's ok to admit this stuff. The world doesn't end if we do. Like you said, they were rookies. They're expected to suck, or at least struggle. I expect big improvement from Dobson. I won't be surprised at anything from Boyce or Thompkins, be it improvement or getting cut.

And the TE thing is pie in the sky. We've had WR3 problems since 2009. This hasn't been something that's been cured by the TEs. There's a difference between a work around and an upgrade.

But WHERE are you going to find them? Trade? (Not worth the resources.) Draft? (This would mean more rookie growing pains in the complex offense.) Again, this team was without a legit tight end threat most of the season. Once that is addressed I think you'll see the current WR corps flourish.

Steve Smith got away. James Jones is a WR2/WR3 type, but he can at least threaten middle-deep enough to keep a defender honest. Kenny Britt is either shot or just needs to be in a better situation, so a player like him might be worth bringing in. Finding the WR the team needs will be tough, because there wasn't a lot of depth in the FA class. It may come down to being lucky (or not) enough that one gets cut loose after some team drafts a WR and decides to go with youth.

 

[captain insano]

Hopefully more than 1 year

my thoughts exactly. im jacked and pumped hes coming back

 

[SHOWTIME15]

"Sucked" is a strong word. He's hit some lasers down field right on target.
His misses in the AFCCG were cringe worthy but he nailed them pretty often through out the season too. Wasn't his throwing hand mangled?

it's not an excuse, but the ball seems to travel a little bit further in Denver....unless you are used to it. i'm guessing that's what the problem was with the overthrows.

 

[PATS16N0]

it's not an excuse, but the ball seems to travel a little bit further in Denver....unless you are used to it. i'm guessing that's what the problem was with the overthrows.

I was tempted to bring that up about Mile High stadium but didn't.
Thanks

 

[Archeryaddict12]

it's not an excuse, but the ball seems to travel a little bit further in Denver....unless you are used to it. i'm guessing that's what the problem was with the overthrows.

What goes just a tad over the receivers hands in Denver, is pretty much right on the money anywhere else.

 

[PATS16N0]

 

[Tunescribe]

Thompkins sucked, but you should feel free to use "struggled" if you prefer. His catch numbers are misleading, because he was the WR1 for a period of time, and we can all remember how bad that time was. Boyce couldn't beat him out. They need huge year 2 jumps. It's ok to admit this stuff. The world doesn't end if we do. Like you said, they were rookies. They're expected to suck, or at least struggle. I expect big improvement from Dobson. I won't be surprised at anything from Boyce or Thompkins, be it improvement or getting cut.

And the TE thing is pie in the sky. We've had WR3 problems since 2009. This hasn't been something that's been cured by the TEs. There's a difference between a work around and an upgrade.



Steve Smith got away. James Jones is a WR2/WR3 type, but he can at least threaten middle-deep enough to keep a defender honest. Kenny Britt is either shot or just needs to be in a better situation, so a player like him might be worth bringing in. Finding the WR the team needs will be tough, because there wasn't a lot of depth in the FA class. It may come down to being lucky (or not) enough that one gets cut loose after some team drafts a WR and decides to go with youth.

We'll find out soon enough what BB thinks about the WR corps, but I don't think it's a significant need. And barring another miraculous Moss-like trade or emergence of a no-name rookie, what we've got is what it'll be. Remember, this team won championships with the unspectacular but efficient likes of Givens, Brown and Branch.

I don't understand why you're down on the tight end element to this offense and how it can further enable the WRs. It worked incredibly well with Gronk and Hernandez complementing each other.

 

[Froob]

No contract details yet?