Downside to franchising Cassel?

[MoLewisrocks]

I'm getting a little confused on the tag and the different scenarios that can occur. Once we tag Cassel, we're free to trade him, right? Regardless of whether he has signed to the franchise offer?

Unless he refuses to cooperate with trade talks which would send a message to the other 31 teams that he's a difficult case to manage... I believe technically once a deal is reached the player signs the tag and is simultaneously traded and the acquiring team upon whom it is then incumbant to get it's alternate already pre agreed upon deal with him signed. Tagged players can be signed to long term deals until sometime in June or July I believe.

So again, any inkling of trouble and a team can rescind the tag (which players do see as a slap contrary to what their agent might try to spin...).

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Afraid of having about 28M of the cap space sitting in 1 position? Unless Tom has a major setback, its a huge risk...

Tell me, what made us talk more, us tagging Asante, or not tagging Randy?

Its not that I don't see what point you are making. Its that I disagree with the risk that action entails.

Tied up is relative because half of it isn't officially tied until he signs the tag absent a trade and that isn't going to happen. We tagged Asante to play him, we made no attempt to trade him. Which is why we had to cut a deal with him to come in. We didn't tag Randy because we only wanted him long or short term if he was amenable to doing the team thing... If they were convinced he was not going to they likely would have tagged and traded him...

 

[BradyManny]

Unless he refuses to cooperate with trade talks which would send a message to the other 31 teams that he's a difficult case to manage... I believe technically once a deal is reached the player signs the tag and is simultaneously traded and the acquiring team upon whom it is then incumbant to get it's alternate already pre agreed upon deal with him signed. Tagged players can be signed to long term deals until sometime in June or July I believe.

So again, any inkling of trouble and a team can rescind the tag (which players do see as a slap contrary to what their agent might try to spin...).

Good point. It'll be really interesting to see how this plays out, it'll be a little subplot to this season and offseason, as Cassel not only hopes to bring us deep into the playoffs, but potentially yield us a draft pick or two in the offseason. I think the fanbases of the other 31 teams might commit a ritual group suicide if it goes down that way.

 

[Va_Pats_Fan]

Tied up is relative because half of it isn't officially tied until he signs the tag absent a trade and that isn't going to happen.

This is my point. You do not know what Cassel will do when they tag him. He could immediately sign. That's the risk. What if he signs, and no trade materializes? Your theory assumes Cassel will not sign until a trade is commiserated. That is a risky assumption.

 

[BradyManny]

This is my point. You do not know what Cassel will do when they tag him. He could immediately sign. That's the risk. What if he signs, and no trade materializes? Your theory assumes Cassel will not sign until a trade is commiserated. That is a risky assumption.

This had been my line of thinking for a while - but I think its a risk you take if as an organization you can have some confidence as to how its going to go down. But the better he plays, the more likely it is that teams will want to ship picks for him. He's getting better each week and yesterday was pretty impressive. If he continues this trend, then he will be pretty desirable in the offseason.

 

[Va_Pats_Fan]

This had been my line of thinking for a while - but I think its a risk you take if as an organization you can have some confidence as to how its going to go down. But the better he plays, the more likely it is that teams will want to ship picks for him. He's getting better each week and yesterday was pretty impressive. If he continues this trend, then he will be pretty desirable in the offseason.

Is it worth eating up 60% of your available cap space on the chance that you get 2 2nd rounders? Bet wrong, and we don't get to extend Wilfork. He gets to the FA market.....or has to be tagged. Bet wrong, and it could have consequences beyond next year.

 

[BradyManny]

Is it worth eating up 60% of your available cap space on the chance that you get 2 2nd rounders? Bet wrong, and we don't get to extend Wilfork. He gets to the FA market.....or has to be tagged. Bet wrong, and it could have consequences beyond next year.

But it doesn't have to be a gamble if they know teams will be interested. I agree, it would be less than ideal if Matt Cassel plays for the NE Patriots under the franchise tag next season. But based on this discussion, you can see that's a highly unlikely scenario and there are many things that could or should happen that will prevent that.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Is it worth eating up 60% of your available cap space on the chance that you get 2 2nd rounders? Bet wrong, and we don't get to extend Wilfork. He gets to the FA market.....or has to be tagged. Bet wrong, and it could have consequences beyond next year.

You're just so entrenched you aren't willing to grasp reason. Any tag and trade of a player like Cassel would be over and done before any extension for Wilfork - who is not a FA until 2010 when it may well be an uncapped league...And if not his new deal will will likely not take more than $5M or so in cap in the first season. We have all of 2009 to get a deal done with Wilfork.

If Cassel is valuable he will be tagged and he will be traded before the draft in 2009...because he has value and Bill is all about value. :deadhorse:

 

[NEPatriot]

Do people realize what TB had accomplished before becoming a franchised QB in Pats?

Cassel doesn't have any SB ring and only plays 7 games and you want him to be a franchised QB next year? Seriously, are you crazy?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Do people realize what TB had accomplished before becoming a franchised QB in Pats?

Cassel doesn't have any SB ring and only plays 7 games and you want him to be a franchised QB next year? Seriously, are you crazy?

You're like the crazy uncle at the dinner table...

There is a difference between being "franchise tagged" and being a Franchise QB... Tom Brady has never been franchise tagged. The term refers to a provision of the Collective Bargaining Agreement that allows teams to control the rights to a player when he is no longer under contract to them (an unrestricted free agent which is what Cassel will be next March unless we franchise tag him so we can trade him for a bunch of nice draft picks)...capiche????

 

[Va_Pats_Fan]

You're just so entrenched you aren't willing to grasp reason. Any tag and trade of a player like Cassel would be over and done before any extension for Wilfork - who is not a FA until 2010 when it may well be an uncapped league...And if not his new deal will will likely not take more than $5M or so in cap in the first season. We have all of 2009 to get a deal done with Wilfork.

If Cassel is valuable he will be tagged and he will be traded before the draft in 2009...because he has value and Bill is all about value. :deadhorse:

My reasoning is more sound then yours. Your reasoning is that there will be a tag and a trade. You have no basis but your own assumptions to base that on. My reasoning is that while that is a great goal, one is not a guarantee of the other.

Are you stating that by franchising him, it guarantees a trade? If you are, you have a severe lack of understanding of the football world (which I do not think is the case), if it does not guarantee, then my assessment of the risk is correct.

Perhaps it is you that can't see the trees for the forest?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

My reasoning is more sound then yours. Your reasoning is that there will be a tag and a trade. You have no basis but your own assumptions to base that on. My reasoning is that while that is a great goal, one is not a guarantee of the other.

Are you stating that by franchising him, it guarantees a trade? If you are, you have a severe lack of understanding of the football world (which I do not think is the case), if it does not guarantee, then my assessment of the risk is correct.

Perhaps it is you that can't see the trees for the forest?

The 2005 JETS tagged John Abraham. He was pissed and only reported after the FO assured him they would not tag him again and they wanted to get a long term deal with him. Then they tanked, he stunk, Herm left and Mangenius was hired and Tanenbaum led a bloodless coup. And they tagged Abraham again coming off a less than pro bowl season and madder than a hornet over being lied to. He said he would hold out. Not to mention the JETS didn't have the cap space to pay him the tag price absent wholesale roster cuts. What happened next? They found two teams who wanted to trade for him, he decided he wanted Atlanta - whose first was too high a price but Seattle was offering theirs. So Atlanta put together a 3 way trade of picks via Denver to secure a lower first they were comfortable trading and they all lived happily ever after...well, except Mangini isn't having such a great year...

Bill tagged Tebucky Jones AFTER they had figured out he was overhyped and not a pro bowl caliber safety on the cusp. New Orleans thought we were crazy and they traded us a nice package of picks for him. The safety tag was lower then, but so was the cap and we were tight up against it...

Again I have only said they will tag and trade him if they believe the market is there. If they believe it is and they don't, that would be willful stupidity and I have never seen this FO be willfully stupid. So would tagging him to retain him...

 

[LloydBraun]

I agree that if this progression continues, the Pats will franchise and trade Cassel.

If Minnesota will off er 2 #1's and more for Brady Quinn I am sure that some team will step up for Cassel coming off a strong 2008 replacing Tom Brady.

QB's are gold, their will be a market if Cassel's strong play continues.

 

[mgteich]

If Cassel is tagged, he will sign and go on vacation. The patriots can then talk trade with whoever wants to send a draft choice to the patriots and pay Cassel $14M for playing in 2009. The number of teams who will do that is likely to be exactly zero.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

If Cassel is tagged, he will sign and go on vacation. The patriots can then talk trade with whoever wants to send a draft choice to the patriots and pay Cassel $14M for playing in 2009. The number of teams who will do that is likely to be exactly zero.

No because Cassel can sign a deal with MORE guaranteed $ than the $14M if traded. And he doesn't have to be career labeled a **** taking $14M as a wimpy bench player.

 

[BradyManny]

If Cassel is tagged, he will sign and go on vacation. The patriots can then talk trade with whoever wants to send a draft choice to the patriots and pay Cassel $14M for playing in 2009. The number of teams who will do that is likely to be exactly zero.

The team gets to negotiate a new deal w Cassel.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

If Cassel is tagged, he will sign and go on vacation. The patriots can then talk trade with whoever wants to send a draft choice to the patriots and pay Cassel $14M for playing in 2009. The number of teams who will do that is likely to be exactly zero.

You don't understand how the system works...doesn't surprise me though.

 

[mgteich]

Of course they do. They pay a draft choice to the patriots, and Cassel plays for $14M for 2009 or he can negotiate a better deal. We can speculate with regard what kind of deal might tempt Cassel. Perhaps $20M up front and $5M for 2010 and 2011. Perhaps Cassel is really worth $10M a year to someone. If they can't make the contract much better than $14M guaranteed, then Cassel can play a year for $14M and negotiate again at the end of the season, having already collected $14M.

If Cassel wants to cooperate, then the team will allow Cassel's agent to help find a sucker before they put the tag on him. But personally, I don't see why Cassel shouldn't wait until at least a week or two into free agancy before doing anything but signbing the tender. BTW, would someone please tell me why Cassel shouldn't sign for $14M. One poster said that he should do this to avoid being called a wimpy bench player. ROFL

The team gets to negotiate a new deal w Cassel.

 

[Va_Pats_Fan]

The 2005 JETS tagged John Abraham. He was pissed and only reported after the FO assured him they would not tag him again and they wanted to get a long term deal with him. Then they tanked, he stunk, Herm left and Mangenius was hired and Tanenbaum led a bloodless coup. And they tagged Abraham again coming off a less than pro bowl season and madder than a hornet over being lied to. He said he would hold out. Not to mention the JETS didn't have the cap space to pay him the tag price absent wholesale roster cuts. What happened next? They found two teams who wanted to trade for him, he decided he wanted Atlanta - whose first was too high a price but Seattle was offering theirs. So Atlanta put together a 3 way trade of picks via Denver to secure a lower first they were comfortable trading and they all lived happily ever after...well, except Mangini isn't having such a great year...

Bill tagged Tebucky Jones AFTER they had figured out he was overhyped and not a pro bowl caliber safety on the cusp. New Orleans thought we were crazy and they traded us a nice package of picks for him. The safety tag was lower then, but so was the cap and we were tight up against it...

Again I have only said they will tag and trade him if they believe the market is there. If they believe it is and they don't, that would be willful stupidity and I have never seen this FO be willfully stupid. So would tagging him to retain him...

Your argument lacks luster. To compare the Jets front office to ours is complete lunacy and only hurts your creditability. You make it seem that series of events was by design.


HA! I fart in your general direction for that faux pas

 

[Brady'sButtBoy]

I think it's a pipe dream the Pats franchise Cassel, mostly for the reason mgteich points out - no one will pay Cassel $14m for one year and give draft picks to do so.

The only hope is the Pats find someone willing to try a sign and trade deal before the franchise/FA deadline comes. This could happen if Cassel plays really well and the Pats find a team that Cassel is willing to play for and that team ponies up some decent cash so Cassel will agree to the trade in exchange for a new contract and a chance to start.

Failing a sign and trade deal, I suppose, with all the subpar QB play out there, that some team might give us a 5th just for the rights to Cassel with no guarantee and take their best shot at signing Cassel before FA starts.


If the Pats try to flat out franchise Cassel, I'd be very surprised if he didn't tell the Pats he would sign the offer immediately as mgteich suggests. This threat will force the Pats' hand since they can't carry that much dough for a backup and, as mentioned before, no one will pay $14m for Cassel for one year and no rights to the future.

Despite all this blathering: most likely Cassel just walks.