Curran: Brady's not quite dialed in yet

[Deus Irae]

There's also the much more logical conclusion that it was a combination of the two, and that can be seen from something as self-evident as the general offensive gameplan. I'd say the coaching is definitely something that can be cited as a proximate cause in the loss, and nothing you've said or cited has discredited that assertion. Keller's comments corroborate the notion that we were, once again, thoroughly outcoached particularly in the second half.

But anyway, I can see where this is going and sadly I have neither the time nor inclination to see it through to its conclusion.

That's probably for the best, because your post is self-contradictory.

 

[JackBauer]

That's probably for the best, because your post is self-contradictory.

It's not contradictory in the slightest.

 

[Oswlek]

"Because we talked two hours before the game that this is where we want to throw."

That's something worth having reporters follow up on, IMO.

I can completely see why the team would like the Moss/Cromartie matchup. Logically, it makes sense. My issues with that are based on it being a low percentage throw that doesn't help the defense in any way. Either it works and the 7 points are on the board or it doesn't and the drive ends quickly, but the defense is back on the field within a minute or two regardless of the outcome.

More than a quick score, what the team needed was a few first downs to settle themselves and take control of the tempo.

P.S. I'm not sure how noting that more admissions of execution failures by Brady further weaken the cause of the O.C. bashers is in any way derailing the thread

Because, as many have said, even a poor play call can still be executed, and competitors like Brady feel they should make every play.

The guy calling plays right now is just starting his second year in that role. We have no expectation that players have fully developed by that time, nor should have of coaches. I still fail to see why a thought process of, "NE won't have the in-game advantage they used to have until BoB either matures or is replaced" is that offbase. :confused2:

 

[BradyManny]

You could argue that it was a bad idea to target Cromartie, but that wasn't decided upon in-game.

Right, but the decision to stay with that play and not target Cro was an in-game decision. What you're acknowledging is that despite the Jets making adjustments as the game went on, particularly with Revis out, the Patriots stuck to their original gameplan, which seemingly was no longer effective. Again, why did they need to run such a quick play when the Jets weren't applying any pressure? That's my beef w/ the offensive gameplan for the 2nd half last week. And again, I do acknowledge Brady made a poor throw on the play.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

I thought the key plays of the game were:

- early on, Taylor's 39 yd run being called back for Tate lining up wrong on the opposite side of the field

- TB badly underthrowing Gronk, who was behind everybody, on a pass he should be able to hit every time

Both of those may well have led to TD's = 14 points. Add the FG fiasco and the Brady sack-fumble (another 6-10 points), and there's your game in 3 or 4 offensive plays, all of which should have gone our way.

Brady can't miss that pass to Gronk. You spend all day setting up a play like that, and you have to hit it. On the other side, Sanchez was threading the needle all day long to their TE Keller on similar routes, and I saw Manning on replay lay one into Clark for a td that was almost identical to the Gronk route except that Clark was better covered.

So I don't really see it as not making the right adjustments, it was clearly about execution.

 

[Kontradiction]

I thought the key plays of the game were:

- early on, Taylor's 39 yd run being called back for Tate lining up wrong on the opposite side of the field

- TB badly underthrowing Gronk on a pass he should have been able to hit every time

Both of those may well have led to TD's = 14 points. Add the FG fiasco and the Brady sack-fumble (another 6-10 points), and there's your game in 3 or 4 offensive plays, all of which should have gone our way.

Brady can't miss that pass to Gronk. You spend all day setting up a play like that, and you have to hit it. On the other side, Sanchez was threading the needle all day long to their TE Keller on similar routes, and I saw Manning on replay lay one into Clark for a td that was almost identical to the Gronk route except that Clark was better covered.

So I don't really see it as not making the right adjustments, it was clearly about execution.

4 out of 5 second half drives in the second half were either ended or crippled by horrible throws by Brady. I'm not sure what the coaching staff could have done to scheme around that. Especially with Welker streaking down the field on one of those horrible throws and Gronk wide open in the flats on another.

 

[mr3putt]

1.) Players are open

2.) Brady's missing the throws or deliberately targeting the matchup that was wanted in game planning, instead of hitting the open man, and the execution failed.


Pretty clear, really.

Rubbish
Clearly

 

[BradyFTW!]

Just let DI have the last word, guys. He will have the last word.

 

[Deus Irae]

Right, but the decision to stay with that play and not target Cro was an in-game decision. What you're acknowledging is that despite the Jets making adjustments as the game went on, particularly with Revis out, the Patriots stuck to their original gameplan, which seemingly was no longer effective. Again, why did they need to run such a quick play when the Jets weren't applying any pressure? That's my beef w/ the offensive gameplan for the 2nd half last week. And again, I do acknowledge Brady made a poor throw on the play.

You are fine with the targeting of Cromartie. You acknowledge Brady making a poor throw. If the pass is missed because the throw was poor, why wouldn't you target that spot again? In the first half, Brady was spot on. He Hit moss in the endzone beautifully on one play, and Moss dropped it. Later on in that same half, he hit Moss in the end zone and Moss made the one-handed catch. Brady was hitting his throws. Then came the second half.

Brady Missed Gronkowski. Brady missed Crumpler. Brady missed Morris. Brady missed Moss. Brady threw 2 picks. Brady had a 16.9 QB rating in the second half. There's the problem. It was Brady missing his receivers. Even Smerlas, one of the biggest Brady apologists out there, is putting the onus on Brady. It wasn't playcalling. Hell, as I'm typing this, Smerlas just smacked down a caller who tried to blame the coordinators.

BTW.... Brady threw to Moss 6 times in the first half and only 4 times in the second half.

Also, I have no idea what you're talking about with the "quick play" point. Deep balls are slow developing plays, so could you please explain what you are referring to?

 

[Deus Irae]

I can completely see why the team would like the Moss/Cromartie matchup. Logically, it makes sense. My issues with that are based on it being a low percentage throw that doesn't help the defense in any way. Either it works and the 7 points are on the board or it doesn't and the drive ends quickly, but the defense is back on the field within a minute or two regardless of the outcome.

More than a quick score, what the team needed was a few first downs to settle themselves and take control of the tempo.



Because, as many have said, even a poor play call can still be executed, and competitors like Brady feel they should make every play.

But people are trying to have it every way. Too much running. Not enough running. Can't run on second and 10. Can't throw deep against Cromartie, even though it was working beautifully against Revis.

People are looking at the results and backfilling their arguments, and they are doing it with some pretty lousy arguments.

The guy calling plays right now is just starting his second year in that role. We have no expectation that players have fully developed by that time, nor should have of coaches. I still fail to see why a thought process of, "NE won't have the in-game advantage they used to have until BoB either matures or is replaced" is that offbase. :confused2:

1.) Arguing that, for example, Josh McDaniels is a better O.C. than O'Brien is a different argument from arguing "O'Brien is the problem and has to go!".

2.) The evidence that the losses are on the coordinator isn't there. Both afternoon shows are breaking Brady's performance down and placing it in context with his pre/post injury numbers. The difference in the second half/comeback/4th quarter QB ratings for Brady (post injury) vs. Manning are very, very stark, and those are not the only ratings that were eye opening.

 

[Fencer]

If Brady threw to single-covered guy while a good receiver (Welker) was open in the middle of the field, that's a poor decision. Period. Throwing to your first option is probably not a terrible decision, but it is poor -- you're supposed to see the even better choice. The QB is supposed to see half or so of the field "at once" and make the best decision accordingly.

But more commonly -- where by "common" I mean "on several crucial plays" -- the problem was just inaccuracy.

 

[emoney_33]

If Brady threw to single-covered guy while a good receiver (Welker) was open in the middle of the field, that's a poor decision. Period. Throwing to your first option is probably not a terrible decision, but it is poor -- you're supposed to see the even better choice. The QB is supposed to see half or so of the field "at once" and make the best decision accordingly.

But more commonly -- where by "common" I mean "on several crucial plays" -- the problem was just inaccuracy.

Not necessarily. If he's coached to throw to Moss against a certain coverage, then it would be the WRONG decision to scan all of his other options after identifying that coverage.

 

[upstater1]

If Brady threw to single-covered guy while a good receiver (Welker) was open in the middle of the field, that's a poor decision. Period. Throwing to your first option is probably not a terrible decision, but it is poor -- you're supposed to see the even better choice. The QB is supposed to see half or so of the field "at once" and make the best decision accordingly.

But more commonly -- where by "common" I mean "on several crucial plays" -- the problem was just inaccuracy.

IF (10 char)

That's the key

 

[upstater1]

4 out of 5 second half drives in the second half were either ended or crippled by horrible throws by Brady. I'm not sure what the coaching staff could have done to scheme around that. Especially with Welker streaking down the field on one of those horrible throws and Gronk wide open in the flats on another.

We see things differenty. i bet if you showed the clip of the one with Gronk (like we did in the other thread), most people here would never expect Brady to throw to him.

I agree Brady made bad throws (Crumpler, Gronk over Wilson, and 2nd INT), but there is a way for the coaching staff to scheme based on the opposition. One, stop running for 1 or 2 yards and putting yourself in 3rd and longs against the Jets. When they went away from running, they had their longest drive (that ended in a fumble).

 

[upstater1]

So I don't really see it as not making the right adjustments, it was clearly about execution.

There are three parts of the discussion now.

1. Adjustments (playcalling?)
2. QB decisions
3. Execution (accuracy?)

I don't think anyone (except one person) disagrees that Brady made at least 2 or 3 poor passes in terms of accuracy. For me, these were the Gronk one you mentioned, pass to Crumpler, and pass to Moss on 2nd INT.

Much of the discussion though is about 1 versus 2.

I tend to fault the runs that put us in 3rd and long and forced the Patriots to pass against the 7 or 8 men the Jets sent to cover passes.

 

[swheeler23]

This is going to be an unpopular article with a lot of people here, but it has a lot of truth to it. Brady DIDN'T look dialed in during the second half last Sunday. At times, he looked absolutely baffled. I don't hesitate to say that if a couple of those throws are more on than they were, this is a very different game. Oh well. Every quarterback is capable of putting up a stinker once or twice a year.

I wish Brady had someone besides Belichick who could tell him things during the game, I doubt he gets much from o'Brein.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Rex Ryan has had Brady's number for 2 of the 3 games and he has shut down Brady in the 2nd half in ALL 3 games.

Brady has not been able to decifer the halftime adjustments Rex Ryan has done against him....its that simple

 

[swheeler23]

Rex Ryan has had Brady's number for 2 of the 3 games and he has shut down Brady in the 2nd half in ALL 3 games.

Brady has not been able to decifer the halftime adjustments Rex Ryan has done against him....its that simple

A running game would take the pressure off. Also it is not all on Brady, he is suppose to have coaches to help.

 

[mgteich]

The coaches are not there to help Brady. They call the plays and Brady and the Bunch need to execute. Just read the so many posts who agree.

A running game would take the pressure off. Also it is not all on Brady, he is suppose to have coaches to help.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

A running game would take the pressure off. Also it is not all on Brady, he is suppose to have coaches to help.

McDaniels and Weis have left the dock...we now have O'Crappin the pants