Couldnt have hoped for a better ending this MNF game

[jnug]

I do tend to think that the NFL approach was pretty hard line, intending to break the union even more than bring it to heel. However I also think it was predicated on the replacement refs holding it together which I suspect also means they thought that they were going to be able to maintain some level of control. Maybe they thought the sideline assistant would be a more effective tool supporting the replacement refs or thought they would not be needed long enough to matter.

It appears that they miscalculated on a number of fronts. I think they miscalculated how capable the replacements are, especially in the face of the sort of home team thunder that NFL home fans can bring to bear. I also think they failed to see how the players would react to the ineptness of the replacements and how liberally they would attempt to take advantage of this situation.

Clearly we are fast coming to a point where there will be mayhem beyond belief committed on every play. That day is not far off and on that day, the fabled, oft glorified NFL brand, the shield that these guys have made millions under becomes tainted in a way that may never wash off if that sort of environment is allowed to continue for any period of time.

Unfortunately, I think all this will mean at best is that the NFL, which in my view did not intend negotiating in good faith in the first place will finally be forced to do so. That however does not at least to me, mean this will be resolved quickly.

For the refs part, my view of it is that they are going to have to accept some sort of performance evaluation process and will have to deal with losing their pensions in favor of 401K but the former issue is one of having a fair process and the latter is a matter of money.

I still don't see this being resolved quickly even from where we are this morning.

 

[ForThoseAboutToRock]

As for the call, in slo motion it appears that Jennings initially had two hand possession at the top of grab while Tate had one hand on the ball and his other closed on it as they fell to the ground where both retained possession.

When they're both on the ground, Tate readjusting his right arm pretty clearly shows he's struggling for possession of the ball. IMO a very savvy ref would've basically said "INT - play under review" so that he had the flexibility to go under the hood and make a better call if need be. The real refs would've likely gathered to decide that point cohesively instead of the foolishness of the two refs, two signals we saw... especially when they wound up with a call that wasn't reviewable (though didn't they review it anyways?).

It was never going to be an ideal situation. But we forget that it never was ideal even with the vaunted regulars in charge. I think the coaches and players and media have done all they could to make the appearance seem worse than it is. And I don't believe it will get them what they think they want. Nor will they be happy when they eventually get back what they seem to miss.

I completely agree. At this point, the NFL regulars would come back in and have to catch up to game speed. I'm of the opinion that pre-season and training camp aren't insignificant for the refs to prepare as well as the players/coaches. Throwing the refs into games last minute in week 4 or 5 isn't going to result in well-called games.

I see this as a no win situation. Replacement refs are what they are. Nothing they do from this point onwards will be without being tainted and clouded in furious controversy - the two primetime games this week sealed that. The regular refs are being hyped to unreasonable levels by angry fans and outraged media; it's nearly certain that their return will be heralded in by further disappointing calls and fan/player/coach outrage.

The league is trying to either bring the NFLRA to heel or break it's union in part so it can do what fans and mediots have been wailing for for years, transition to full time officiating with the ability to replace guys who consistently make questionable calls and grade out poorly. Nothing worthwhile is ever easy. They're not going to roll over just because of bi-polar, storyline driven media pressure to just settle, any more than they did when it was the actual players they were looking to regain control over. The NFL world won't end because of poor officiating in one season any more than it has in the past. More people than ever are watching the sport if only to see how many OMG calls they can identify game to game. It's becoming like a sport within the sport...

Good idea to get to the point of why there is a lockout and what the possible end game scenarios of it are. It's much easier to just focus on the immediate impact. Whatever your opinion or stance on the NFL/union relationship - one thing for sure is that it's bad for business and a damn shame that they spilled this over into the regular season. That call for Seattle changes the landscape of playoffs/home field in the NFC with near certainty.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

It's better to have it happen now than to have it happen in January. It sucks that we had these clowns play such a major role in 2 losses but there could be a silver lining here if it gets the real refs back sooner than later.

Just think if these guys made it through the season by some fluke not having looked too embarrassing and then in the playoffs screwed us over as a 14-2 or better team, obviously that'd be way worse.

 

[Bella*chick]

I'm glad it went down on back to back games. These refs crumbled under crowd pressure 2 nights in a row and that is never suppose to happen. Mark one down for the little guy against corporate greed. Just go in there and bargain in good faith and I think both sides will be able to meet a middle ground.

Yeah.....these idiot refs WERE affected by the home crowds two nights in a row....but they weren't last week at Gillette! We can't catch a single break with these guys.

 

[ForThoseAboutToRock]

It's better to have it happen now than to have it happen in January. It sucks that we had these clowns play such a major role in 2 losses but there could be a silver lining here if it gets the real refs back sooner than later.

Just think if these guys made it through the season by some fluke not having looked too embarrassing and then in the playoffs screwed us over as a 14-2 or better team, obviously that'd be way worse.

At that point, what would be the difference between the replacements and the crew that screwed up Superbowl 43?

Edit: Yes I meant Superbowl 40 :eat1: Cheers

 

[PatsSox363804]

What a joke! Goodell should be fired out of a high speed catapult right into a brick wall for this.

Fixed that for you.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

At that point, what would be the difference between the replacements and the crew that screwed up Superbowl 43?

Don't you mean the Steelers - Seahawks SB though? SB43 was AZ-Pitt and I don't remember anything bad about that game.

If you meant the SB where the Seahawks got screwed, I never said that SB wasn't tainted. Probably the worst, most one-sided officiated game I've seen until this weekend and it will always be fishy to me.

And you're talking about one super bowl out 46 so far. Of course they're bound to screw one up.

 

[ivanvamp]

Thats rarely called on a hail mary, theres always some jockeying for position going on.

That wasn't jockeying. That was a full two-handed shove in the back, no holding back.

 

[The Boston Patriot]

O line for packers just tweeted...****ed by refs..thanks NFL

LOLOLOLOL

That same OLine that gave up eight sacks? Of all the people that should shut their ******* mouth, it's them.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Yeah.....these idiot refs WERE affected by the home crowds two nights in a row....but they weren't last week at Gillette! We can't catch a single break with these guys.

Mentally, I already see this:

Super Bowl XLVII*

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I've seen the Seahawks get robbed before, it was in a Superbowl with supposedly elite regular officials working the game.

As for the call, in slo motion it appears that Jennings initially had two hand possession at the top of grab while Tate had one hand on the ball and his other closed on it as they fell to the ground where both retained possession. Trouble is this wasn't reviewable by rule once the initial call was made of simultaneous possession, and in real time the guy who made the call was approaching from the front while the one who approached from behind seemed to be looking into the pile before he signaled time.

And as for the scrum pre catch, that is never called in a hail mary situation.

I get that the replacement reffing has been rough at times, and it's appeared worse because of the indecisiveness within crews in getting the call out and because of some ball placement miscues especially when ajudicating multiple offenses. There had been fewer offensive and defensive holding and PI calls until this week, and the uptick impacting defenses may be the fault of the league handlers who are coaching them up on the fly and may have emphasized to them to pay more attention to those rules where DPI and the chuck rule are concerned this week.

It was never going to be an ideal situation. But we forget that it never was ideal even with the vaunted regulars in charge. I think the coaches and players and media have done all they could to make the appearance seem worse than it is. And I don't believe it will get them what they think they want. Nor will they be happy when they eventually get back what they seem to miss.

If a regular official called that a simultaneous catch, and that is not something that would surprise me, it still would not be reviewable. What these guys lack is command of the game and a clear understanding of the tortured rules of engagement that the competition committee has adopted in this league over the last decade. But those rules have always been unevenly enforced. And obvious mistakes have always been made. There were calls for Ed Hoculi's head not long ago for totally screwing up a game he and his crew officiated. Anyone remember the famous non INT in the Colt/Steeler AFCC game that was somehow upheld on review? Or the faceguarding call against EHIII when no such penalty exists? Or the phantom Roethlisberger SB TD? Hell, for years Jeff Tripplette's crew was notorious for phantom game changing PI calls particularly in any Colt games they officiated.

The league is trying to either bring the NFLRA to heel or break it's union in part so it can do what fans and mediots have been wailing for for years, transition to full time officiating with the ability to replace guys who consistently make questionable calls and grade out poorly. Nothing worthwhile is ever easy. They're not going to roll over just because of bi-polar, storyline driven media pressure to just settle, any more than they did when it was the actual players they were looking to regain control over. The NFL world won't end because of poor officiating in one season any more than it has in the past. More people than ever are watching the sport if only to see how many OMG calls they can identify game to game. It's becoming like a sport within the sport...

This fiasco is going to have the opposite effect many of us hardcore fans expect.

Instead of hurting the league with loss of viewers & revenue, more casual fans without a prior emotional investment in a team will watch more "meaningless" games to see what potential train wreck happens next.

Bottom line is that the prior system was flawed. The league is trying to fix it. One may argue with rational evidence that the damage done in attempting to improve officiating has made things worse, but the league is being proactive in its attempt to not become like the NBA which fans like me abandoned because of perceived overly subjective and poor officiating that too strongly influenced almost every game.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I was one of the people who believed that the replacement refs wouldn't be that much worse than the real ones. Wow! Was I wrong.

Time to make a deal. I don't care who is wrong.

That's the same thing we were hearing in June of 2011...and the world wasn't nearly coming to an end. It's funny but there were stats out last week indicating that the % of calls and PI or defensive holding in particular were about the same. And game time was up but only by several minutes and that is to be expected because administration and control is the biggest part of the problem these refs have been dealing with and some of that has been exacerbated by coaches trying to intimidate (which they often did to no avail) and players acting and pushing the envelope (which they often did with some level of success depending on crew bias).

This is a typical tempest in a teapot driven mostly by media furor which is largely ratings driven because the season itself is often not interesting enough to generate the kind of hits that hysterical axe grinding and threats of the end of days will. This is no different than bountygate, where we all recognized a duck when it first quacked only to on deeper probing media or agenda driven fan reflection have it turn into a passion play about power and persecution because that was a more compelling long term story line.

Zolak is winding up for 4 hours of replacement travesty talk. And cheap owners. Kraft ought to be dropping a dime on his part time media employee and suggesting he tone it down or choose between being a moronic talk radio host or part of the kraft media group, whose job should be to promote his billion dollar product that is 1/32nd of a multi billion dollar industry.

The fastest way to end this thing would have been for everyone to get behind the poor SOB's who filled the void a bunch of self-important, spoiled zebras with delusions of grandeur who shouldn't have even been allowed to unionize created.

These owners wouldn't allow players to dicate terms, they aren't going to let part time referees or know it all mediots or talk radio fans dicate to them either. That's how they got to be billionaires.

 

[fumbrunner]

That call also allowed Seattle to cover the spread. The line had moved from 3 to 4.5, indicating that there was more money on GB. Do you think there is more than a couple bookies in Vegas calling for Goodell's head today?

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Rumor has it the real refs are laughing about the lockout and have decided they will now strike and demand full pension, raises for everyone, and they want to be paid for all games missed.

More power to them. They could probably throw in a demand for private jets and limos on game weekends.

 

[fumbrunner]

That call also allowed Seattle to cover the spread. The line had moved from 3 to 4.5, indicating that there was more money on GB. Do you think there is more than a couple bookies in Vegas calling for Goodell's head today?

Seattle Seahawks vs. Green Bay Packers -- Disputed MNF call shifted $150-$250M in bets - ESPN Chicago

with anywhere from 70 to 85% of the money on GB, there are likely alot of unhappy people....

 

[Bella*chick]

On a brighter note, at least BB's "grabbing" the ref just became yesterday's news and if anything, public opinion is further on his side. Not that he cares, but I do.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

If there were more camera angels on that field goal I think there would be the same exact uproar.

I think that's 100% correct. We don't have conclusive video evidence in the case of the FG, but the video here clearly shows that one guy has two hands on the ball and the other guy is trying to strip it from him, thus not "simultaneous possession."

 

[MoLewisrocks]

At that point, what would be the difference between the replacements and the crew that screwed up Superbowl 43?

And a couple of others, not to mention trying and at times succeeding in a number of Conference Championship games.

Really, people act like the regulars didn't do this at times almost persistently. Isn't that what led to the previous hue and cry for full time refs? Which is part of what the league is trying to set themselves up to achieve over the next several year. Ed Hoculi used to be a god, then a couple of years ago he began to lose his mind. Nothing anyone could do about it. Media made him the butt of jokes. Now he's the guy they're all pining for, the one who is supposedly spearheading the courageous effort to keep the regulars up to snuff... These are the same guys who decided Derrelle Revis was so talented he couldn't possibly be holding on almost every PD while EHIII was so short when he appeared to make a great play in coverage he must have been committing a foul, even if it was a non existent one.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Russell Wilson is the first QB in history to throw a game winning INT

I thought Peyton did that in the SB a few years back. :singing:

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Little are talking about Tate shoving Shields out of the way....blatant offensive pass interference BEFORE the bogus TD

Nah. There's illegal pushing and shoving on every Hail Mary I've ever seen. They can pretty much do anything short of wrestle a guy to the ground. The refs are supposed to be focusing only on a possible possession of the ball.