Could more outstanding play of BJGE possibly be Maroney's ticket out of town?

[PATSYLICIOUS]

I still don't get what the big deal was with Maroney having big games down the stretch - While he played well in the Jags game because the Jags were backing off to prevent the pass he only had another good game against a 1-15 team at that time which was the Dolphins and then became invisible in the Chargers game and SB - I never thought he was very impressive at all last season with the only exception of like I said,The Jags game.

If you can recall the AFCCG vs San Diego, Maroney made some big runs by running where the play wasn't designed to go. Those are runs I wouldn't expect BJGE to make. Yes there are some drawbacks from Maroney's style, but with improved run blocking in recent weeks he would probably still be putting up the same type of #'s BJGE is putting up now, if not better. I'm as big a fan of BJGE as there is, he's been solid when we've needed him but Maroney has more potential and we need depth at the position. Maroney will be here the length of his contract.

 

[condon84]

The Law Firm has looked good, but let's not forget what Maroney looked like the first half of his rookie year before he got hurt and the last few games last year inlcuding the playoffs. He's looked great when he's healthy so we shouldn't ignore the fact that he is productive when healthy. That being said, having a two or three headed running back monster is not a bad idea. The Giants work it out, no reason why it can't happen here. BJGE is a hard runner and has shown good vision. He doesn't have the speed of Maroney, but is stronger and can get a yard or two. I still hope that Morris and/or Jordan can come back because both have better speed.

 

[matt1073]

Law Firm is out Willie Parker

 

[DaBruinz]

Law Firm is out Willie Parker

No he's not. He's not even in the same category as Willie Parker.

BJGE is the Pats version of the 2005 Samkon Gado who played for the Packers. It remains to be seen if BJGE is around next year or what.

 

[ALP]

I would be a little hesitant to anoint Green-Ellis the next coming of Barry Sanders at this point. He has done very well in the role he has been asked to play, but to suddenly say he is the man and Maroney is out would be to suffer from the very same failing most people fell victim to in the "dump Cassel" advocacy exhibited after Brady went down, disregarding that Belichick and Pioli keep the best players for a particular position. If Green-Ellis looked like a better option than Maroney presented, Maroney would be gone. Maroney stayed. If Maroney doesn't look substantially healthier next season, he may well be gone as he otherwise presents the continuity issues arising from mid-season roster shuffles. Will Green-Ellis stay? Ask Kyle Eckel.

Cassel has improved at getting rid of the ball, but he also has not seen jailbreak rushes that deny him the time to get rid of the ball. That alone shows the O-line is vastly improved over the past two weeks, and Green-Ellis presumably benefits from that improved blocking. No running back escapes getting hit by three defenders in the backfield, and Maroney was seeing that before he started to look hurt. While I am very happy with Green-Ellis, I don't see him shaking off defenders in the backfield as his strength seems to be momentum and power, which does not bode well for him if he is hit before he takes a step.

I join the camp that believes you do not need to bash one player when you praise another. It is great to see Green-Ellis do well, and I hope he keeps it up. I would argue the better measuring stick for his ability, rather than the yardage of a game or two, will be if he still gets the carries when (and if) Morris and Jordan return. If he disappears at that point, that would seem to imply Belichick views him as a 4th, not a 1st, running back option, and next season will see the return of Maroney or another back fitting the requirements for a number 1 running back, which would have no impact on whether Green-Ellis remains on the team with Maroney.

kyle ecklel isnt half the runner BJ has showed so far....

 

[jczxohn1]

Five pages on the demise of Maroney and not one mention of his value as a Kick Returner. IMO, Hobbs is out of a job next year and Maroney gets a chance to prove his worth professionally in that department, as well as being one of a stable of RB's.

 

[DocE]

This team needs MORE big play threats, not less. Randy Moss is the only Patriot right now who teams fear can beat them on one play. Maroney has some of that ability, and the Patriots would be crazy to give up on him.

The reactionary nature of fans can be amazing. If Green-Ellis's play is considered "outstanding" over the past few weeks, were you fitting Maroney for his Hall of Fame jacket during January of last season?

I think Maroney will make a number of big plays for the Patriots next year, either as the no.1 back or as a change of pace back.

 

[MassPats38]

kyle ecklel isnt half the runner BJ has showed so far....

I wasn't saying that as a point of comparison in abilities, but rather for those touting his greatness at this point in his career. Eckel received some compliments as a tough, special teams player as well as a running back, had a 1000-yard season in college, the same TD/touch ratio as Green-Ellis in the pros, a long run of 14 (Green-Ellis has a long of 15) and was released. Would Belichick have brought him back before Green-Ellis if he did not go to the Eagles? Who was released first this year? The fact is you did not see enough of Eckel to compare running abilities with Green-Ellis. Maybe Belichick and Pioli knew something in making the roster moves they did.

Eckel is a bigger back (I am not sure if he is a slower back, than Green-Ellis as you want speed on special teams) and got all of 33 touches in the offense last year (many if you remember were end of game right up the gut to kill the clock). The Broncos game was a blowout and Green-Ellis got 65 yards. The Rams game was tough and Green-Ellis ran for 1.8 YPC. The Colts game was close, they have a lousy run defense, and he ran for 57 yards. This was his firt 100-yard game.

You do not have identical scenarios to compare the two, and what a running back "shows" tends to be as much attributable to blocking as it is to individual ability, which has improved significantly in recent weeks. Ask Edgerrin James when he went to Arizona. Give a power runner two yards with blocking and he will get another yard or two with sheer momentum.

Again, I am not comparing Eckel with Green-Ellis (who knows how Eckel would play under the same circumstances), and Green-Ellis has done a great job in the past couple of games. The point was they both appear to be undrafted project players, and Eckel is not here this year.

The caution was do not be so quick to celebrate his long-term status with all the injuries the Pats have had. Most of the injured players will return, then comes the inevitable ability comparisons on the active roster. Absent base abilities and a Brady-like work ethic, it would be a long road for a released running back to climb to number 1 back status and displace Maroney. If Maroney leaves, it will be due to fragility and not because Green-Ellis is a more capable running back.

 

[Leave No Doubt]

Five pages on the demise of Maroney and not one mention of his value as a Kick Returner. IMO, Hobbs is out of a job next year and Maroney gets a chance to prove his worth professionally in that department, as well as being one of a stable of RB's.

You could be right on with that post. Maroney's got way too many skill sets to be dumped but his style does not fit with RB in the true sense of the position. BB's comments yesterday and Josh's awhile back alluded to that fact, but I was trying to think of a position better suited to Maroney. Maybe it's a PR as you suggest. JMHO BB and Josh may be hoping Maroney picks up on their expectations but if he doesn't/isn't able to make that style adjustment I don't see them thinking he's just gone. I see them trying to use him in a position that would play more to his strengths instead; lightening speed in open spaces aka punt returns. Hobbs has been around a long time so by next season he'll be just that much more beat up.

LoMo as kick returner and situational RB. Poifect:rocker:

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

You could be right on with that post. Maroney's got way too many skill sets to be dumped but his style does not fit with RB in the true sense of the position. BB's comments yesterday and Josh's awhile back alluded to that fact, but I was trying to think of a position better suited to Maroney. Maybe it's a PR as you suggest. JMHO BB and Josh may be hoping Maroney picks up on their expectations but if he doesn't/isn't able to make that style adjustment I don't see them thinking he's just gone. I see them trying to use him in a position that would play more to his strengths instead; lightening speed in open spaces aka punt returns. Hobbs has been around a long time so by next season he'll be just that much more beat up.
LoMo as kick returner and situational RB. Poifect:rocker:

I think that BB's and Josh's indirect negative comments on RBs styles' speaks volumes. These guys don't 'accidently' say things. I think they're frustrated with Maroney's stubborn style vs his inherent talent. It's obvious from watching respective running styles that LoMo is executing the offense differently, and without exceptional results. As we've seen with Cassel, the Patriots offense is NOT one redesigned for each player.

I look for LoMo to have time to reflect on this battle of wills and hopefully to approach 2009 camp with a different style and thereafter benefit from his excellent athletic abilities.

I agree that he could contribute as our KR as well as RB in 2009.

 

[Deus Irae]

I think that BB's and Josh's indirect negative comments on RBs styles' speaks volumes. These guys don't 'accidently' say things. I think they're frustrated with Maroney's stubborn style vs his inherent talent. It's obvious from watching respective running styles that LoMo is executing the offense differently, and without exceptional results. As we've seen with Cassel, the Patriots offense is NOT one redesigned for each player.

I look for LoMo to have time to reflect on this battle of wills and hopefully to approach 2009 camp with a different style and thereafter benefit from his excellent athletic abilities.

I agree that he could contribute as our KR as well as RB in 2009.

If BB and company don't like Maroney's style, they have nobody to blame but themselves. They knew his running style before they drafted him. They changed the offensive line's blocking style to something the o-linemen aren't particularly adept at and, as a result, teams are often playing "meet me in the backfield" on any running play that's not designed as a quick hitter. Furthermore, the run calls don't play to Maroney's strengths, which are speed and quickness, but instead keep him inside the tackles, which is absolutely moronic given his struggles with injury at the NFL level.

Having a system is all well and good, but running backs rarely change styles successfully. Otis Anderson is the exception, not the rule.

Also, as a last thing: if these comments really are a dig at Maroney, that pretty much tosses the argument of so many here that New England doesn't criticize its players in public.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

If BB and company don't like Maroney's style, they have nobody to blame but themselves. They knew his running style before they drafted him. They changed the offensive line's blocking style to something the o-linemen aren't particularly adept at and, as a result, teams are often playing "meet me in the backfield" on any running play that's not designed as a quick hitter. Furthermore, the run calls don't play to Maroney's strengths, which are speed and quickness, but instead keep him inside the tackles, which is absolutely moronic given his struggles with injury at the NFL level.

Having a system is all well and good, but running backs rarely change styles successfully. Otis Anderson is the exception, not the rule.

Also, as a last thing: if these comments really are a dig at Maroney, that pretty much tosses the argument of so many here that New England doesn't criticize its players in public.

BB & Co have made draft mistakes previously and will continue to do so. They're not infallible.

I see it as Maroney too often cuting outside trying to break it when the play is designed otherwise. Not well received by an OC or HC just trying to 'move the chains'.

It speaks volumes that we're concerned about running a RB inside. Even Kevin Faulk runs up the middle.

I agree with your conclusion. I see their behaviour as frustration at seeing a decent #1 pick prove unproductive.

EDIT: far less productive than they believe he can be.

 

[SeymourTrophies]

I still don't get what the big deal was with Maroney having big games down the stretch - While he played well in the Jags game because the Jags were backing off to prevent the pass he only had another good game against a 1-15 team at that time which was the Dolphins and then became invisible in the Chargers game and SB - I never thought he was very impressive at all last season with the only exception of like I said,The Jags game.

Maroney ran for the same amount of yardage in the SD game as the Jacksonville game. Granted, Jamal Williams was a ghost because of injury. Maroney has been rode hard for a long time and he has become fragile, he's very talented, but psychologically, he appears to be toast. He had a pretty good rookie year when Dillon softened the defense up for him, but I always had doubts about him because he never ran as well out of single back formations as he did with a fullback.

 

[Deus Irae]

BB & Co have made draft mistakes previously and will continue to do so. They're not infallible.

I see it as Maroney too often cuting outside trying to break it when the play is designed otherwise. Not well received by an OC or HC just trying to 'move the chains'.

It speaks volumes that we're concerned about running a RB inside. Even Kevin Faulk runs up the middle.

I agree with your conclusion. I see their behaviour as frustration at seeing a decent #1 pick prove unproductive.

EDIT: far less productive than they believe he can be.

Just a notation on the bolded part:

Kevin Faulk is not the every down runner, and he generally runs a draw out of a passing formation. Maroney is the every down runner and, for whatever reason, gets keyed on when he's out there, doesn't get passes thrown to him and doesn't get outside runs. It's not that they have him run inside, it's that pretty much all they do is have him run inside. When you do that to running backs, you often break them down. Morris, Jordan and Dillon had the same thing happen to them.

People call Maroney glass, but take a look at the number of games missed by Morris since he's been here and remember how many games Dillon either sat out or played hurt. I personally believe that some of it is a product of the way the team is designing its running plays. The 210-230 pound runners are constantly getting pummeled by the 240-350 pound linebackers and D-lineman, and are very rarely getting the opportunity to get up against the lighter dbs. When you couple that with the frequent absence of a fullback, the Patriots are just chewing up their running backs.

 

[Leave No Doubt]

BB & Co have made draft mistakes previously and will continue to do so. They're not infallible.

I see it as Maroney too often cuting outside trying to break it when the play is designed otherwise. Not well received by an OC or HC just trying to 'move the chains'.

It speaks volumes that we're concerned about running a RB inside. Even Kevin Faulk runs up the middle.

I agree with your conclusion. I see their behaviour as frustration at seeing a decent #1 pick prove unproductive.

EDIT: far less productive than they believe he can be.

'Zactly. Obviously BB et al knew Maroney's style going in but it seems the real problem was LoMo's lack of ability and/or willingness to adapt to the situation when necessary (I'm going with willingness as opposed to ability.If it was an ability issue they wouldn't have made the comments they did-jmo.).

Hopefully he utilizes this time to heal up and rethink his approach/attitude, meanwhile slotting him in as a KR/situational RB sounds like a good solution. All in all it sounds more and more like he needs some attitude adjustment time, and BB/Josh seem to be making their expectations quite clear on that matter.

 

[VJCPatriot]

'Zactly. Obviously BB et al knew Maroney's style going in but it seems the real problem was LoMo's lack of ability and/or willingness to adapt to the situation when necessary (I'm going with willingness as opposed to ability.If it was an ability issue they wouldn't have made the comments they did-jmo.).

Hopefully he utilizes this time to heal up and rethink his approach/attitude, meanwhile slotting him in as a KR/situational RB sounds like a good solution. All in all it sounds more and more like he needs some attitude adjustment time, and BB/Josh seem to be making their expectations quite clear on that matter.

It looks more and more like Maroney's role will change to change of pace/pass catching RB. I suppose that's alright considering his salary but it is disappointing that is all you're going to get out of a 1st round pick.

I can totally understand the coaching staff feeling disappointed in Maroney. They see a guy with all the physical tools and talent but he just is unable/unwilling to do what they ask of him.

It's no surprise that BJGE is getting praise and the minutes because of the way he runs. The kid just puts his hard hat on and runs hard. As one coach said 'less dancing', more running.

 

[Wretch]

One of the things not being discussed is how are defenses playing differently now that Cassel is more productive in the passing game. I haven't reviewed tape but I would bet that when LoMo was healthy this year he was facing 8 in the box more frequently than BJGE is now that we have a credible passing game.

I can see calling LoMo glass if he was suffering from soft tissue injuries like sprains all the time but so far his injuries have required surgery to fix or have gotten him on IR, not just "rested". He is a very talented back that has been unlucky with injuries.

I am not saying that BJGE isn't very talented also, but If BJGE was a better back than LoMo he would have been started the season on the roster. If BB is anything it is ruthless in player/personnel decisions.

As someone else wrote BJGE does remind me of Jones-Drew also. From looking at their combine numbers MJD had a better 40 3 cone and shuttle times but BJGE had better 20, and 10 times.

I would say that I don't put much credence into anything implied from a BB statement. BB and SP are the the kings of saying nothing and trying to read hidden meaning into their comments is a waste of time. If BB/SP think it's time to move on from LoMo then the first anyone outside the Pats will know is when we draft a RB high next year.

Finally I hope that we have discovered the next great RB in BJGE but I will am not fitting him for a jacket in Canton just yet.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

One of the things not being discussed is how are defenses playing differently now that Cassel is more productive in the passing game. I haven't reviewed tape but I would bet that when LoMo was healthy this year he was facing 8 in the box more frequently than BJGE is now that we have a credible passing game.

As someone else wrote BJGE does remind me of Jones-Drew also. From looking at their combine numbers MJD had a better 40 3 cone and shuttle times but BJGE had better 20, and 10 times.

I would say that I don't put much credence into anything implied from a BB statement. BB and SP are the the kings of saying nothing and trying to read hidden meaning into their comments is a waste of time. If BB/SP think it's time to move on from LoMo then the first anyone outside the Pats will know is when we draft a RB high next year.

Spot on in the realignment of defenses. Also, not the OL improvements with Neal's return. It's a different running environ for Law Firm vs what Maroney faced.

I would be SHOCKED were BB to 'move on' from Maroney by taking a RB high, given our OL and DB needs. Maroney will play for the Pats next year along with Law Firm and Morris.

 

[JSn]

I think Evans played a lot more snaps yesterday than usual, as well. He's a good run/pass blocker (under-credited imo). Tack him and a TE onto that O-Line that's already turning back into a monster unit and we'll keep seeing a balanced attack. The kind of balance that can let you down at times, but can also quietly escort you through back alleys to the Superbowl.

 

[mgteich]

As fans, why should we care which of the 2009 running backs will get more reps in 2009? For me, I'm glad to have four solid running backs signed up for 2009 and a fullback who is a free agent and wants to stay. And BTW, our entire starting OL is also signed through 2009 in addition to having backups Levior (an ERFA) and Yates.