Could more outstanding play of BJGE possibly be Maroney's ticket out of town?

[DaBruinz]

I don't think that you can "coach" maroney's "style" out of him.....He is what he is....and either it works for your offense or it doesn't.....Now, Maroney may be able to be utilized as kind of a kevin faulk.....change of pace.....type of threat......and most especially IF he can learn to better catch the ball out of the backfield.....I DO NOT see him as an every down back option for this team any longer.....the dancing at the hole.........or slow hitting of the hole will not go away....it is his style and internal wiring....you can't change that....or "coach it out"........I hope he stays on in some capacity here because he has alot of fire and is a team player.....

The times that I have seen Maroney dance is because the hole that he's supposed to hit is closed when he gets there. Not this garbage that's been posted on here that he needs a hole the size of a mack truck.

People want to point to this year and claim that Morris and BJGE are doing better than Maroney did this year, yet you want to absolutely IGNORE the fact that Morris wasn't doing better while Maroney was there and that Morris and BJGE are both benefitting, significantly, from much improved O-line play. And its also my belief that they are not running the Zone run blocking scheme and have reverted back to the scheme they were using when Dillon was here.

I'll be honest, I think that Maroney can ACCEL in that scheme. They should stick with that scheme and go from there.

 

[VJCPatriot]

From the way they talk, the world might come to an end if BJGE is named a starter over Maroney. Gimme a break. If the kid is effective, let him tote the rock. Besides there's no guarantee that Maroney can even stay on the field. I think BJGE will be here to stay, especially if he can keep up this pace for the rest of the season!

Goodness me, it DOES looks like I did go over the top by saying give BJGE a chance to win the starting job if he's effective toting the rock! Whatever was I thinking?

 

[Va_Pats_Fan]

That never needed to be proven. Yes, anyone who outplays anyone else will get their job.
What I am saying is that it is not going to happen, because while I am thrilled that BJGE can do such a good job filling in, I do not see it veery likley that he can beat out Maroney.
Those that are advanicng this topicd today, are doing so because they want to trash Maroney and use the fact that he is injured as the reason he is no good.
If Maroney were healthy BJGEwouldn't be getting this chance, and if Maroney were only out instead of on IR, he would start when healthy, just like Jordan or Morris will.
Its great the Gree-Ellis did so well, its fantastic that our team is so deep.
But to annoint a guy a stud based on 1 100 yard game without chewing up the film and analyzing whether a good back would have gained 150, or an average back would have gained 65, or whatever the blocking and plays dictated is foolish.
It could well be that BJGE turned 65 blocked into 100 gained, or that he turned 150 blocked into 100 gained. I guarantee no one here has studied the tape thoroughly enough yet (if they ever do) to judge that.
Why not just accept that the guy at the end of the bench had a good game instead of trying to find the negative, which in this case can only be trashing the guy who wasnt out there????????????

I don't think that recognizing BJGE potential is a slam at LoMo. Some may, but I don't see the how one doing well means that the other does not. That is not a zero sum game. Both can have potential and be good runners.

While I agree that is it too early to make a definitive decision, based on what I see, I think he has potential. If he didn't, he wouldn't of been on the PS.

Straight up, as you said, and I have said earlier, LoMo is the better athlete, and runner. Unfortunately, its not apples vs apples, we have to look at apples and oranges. BJGE has a much lower cap hit, and LoMo has a durability issue (no denying that). Looking at the value, are the pats better off paying a bigger salary, and getting 6 good games out of LoMo, or paying the lower salary, and getting 16 ok games out of BJGE?

Your post is full of if's. If LoMo were not on IR, if Jordon or Morris were not out. Well, like it or not, he is on IR, and he was out a significant amount last year too. Morris and Jordon are out. These are facts. The NFL is full of players that are playing cause they made the most of the chance they got, and the streets are full of guys that couldn't stay healthy.

Time will tell.

 

[ausbacker]

I believe there is a wonderful opportunity to use LoMo once he is fully fit next season and either of BJGE, Morris or Jordan much in the same way the Saints use McAllister and Bush.

LoMo can play. How quickly people forget...

 

[Deus Irae]

BJGE, for all the people dropping to their knees in worship, is averaging under 4 yards per rush. The Buffalo game was his best average, at 4 per rush.

His carries in the Buffalo game: 4/4/6/10/2/1/2/3/2/5/4/12/4/4/0/-3/11/5/6/1/13/1/1/2/4/1

 

[spacecrime]

BJGE, for all the people dropping to their knees in worship, is averaging under 4 yards per rush.

I know. He is barely averaging more than 1/2 a yard per carry more than Marshawn Lynch.

And just to keep the record straight, what you call under 4 yards is actually 3.9 yards per carry. Not to bad for a guy whose job it is to bang. He isn't a scat back, he's a pounder, and 4 yards per carry without benefit of padding his average with the occaisaional 50 yarder is pretty damn good.

I don't see how anyone could not be impressed with this guy!?!?!!?

 

[spacecrime]

If Maroney were healthy BJGEwouldn't be getting this chance,

Remember Brady's first start in 2001? Remember what happened to cause him to play? The NFL is replete with players who got a chance to play due to injury and excelled.

I think the discussion ought to be about whether or not BJGE is an effective RB, not the situation that prevailed to give him his start.

I don't see why his accomplishments are diminished because of who played and got hurt before him.

If BJGE was a first round pick and LoMo an UDFA, no one would think twice about BJGE playing better. It's just the old draft prejudice at work.

 

[LloydBraun]

Also, there seemed to be a few runs yesterday where Benny was one block away from a long gainer.

As the weather becomes more of an issue, I expect Benny, Morris, Jordan, etc. will play an even bigger role.

 

[Deus Irae]

I know. He is barely averaging more than 1/2 a yard per carry more than Marshawn Lynch.

And just to keep the record straight, what you call under 4 yards is actually 3.9 yards per carry. Not to bad for a guy whose job it is to bang. He isn't a scat back, he's a pounder, and 4 yards per carry without benefit of padding his average with the occaisaional 50 yarder is pretty damn good.

I don't see how anyone could not be impressed with this guy!?!?!!?

Is this a gag post? Is Alan Funt somewhere around with a camera?

 

[JoeSixPat]

I'm very high on BenJarvus - I picked him as my dark horse candidate to make the squad back in the pre-season.

But it's not only tough for US to draw conclusions from the first few games, defensive coordinators also don't have any tape on guys like this and aren't quite sure of their tendencies or how to defend them.

So keep expectations reasonable. As DCs get more tape on him they'll adjust to address his tendencies and he might have a lapse in productivity.

 

[PatsFan2]

Remember Brady's first start in 2001? Remember what happened to cause him to play? The NFL is replete with players who got a chance to play due to injury and excelled.

I think the discussion ought to be about whether or not BJGE is an effective RB, not the situation that prevailed to give him his start.

I don't see why his accomplishments are diminished because of who played and got hurt before him.

If BJGE was a first round pick and LoMo an UDFA, no one would think twice about BJGE playing better. It's just the old draft prejudice at work.

Exactly and the NFL Draft is not a exact science or Tom Brady would have been a First Rounder instead of a Sixth. Laurence Maroney knows he has alot catching up to do every RB who played behind that same line have been better than him and that's the Truth!

 

[BionicPatriot]

Anyone complaining about BJGE YPC is failing to see that it's picking up week by week. He was brought along slow as an UDFA and now it seems they're giving him all the duties they would Maroney. I wouldn't say Maroney is gone, unless they can find someone worth keeping him. I think they'll let him play out his contract, see if he can stay healthy and what he can do healthy. The depth sure can't hurt.

My opinion isn't popular, but I'd rather toss one of Jordan or Morris because they're even more injury prone honestly.

 

[PATRIOT64]

BJGE, for all the people dropping to their knees in worship, is averaging under 4 yards per rush. The Buffalo game was his best average, at 4 per rush.

His carries in the Buffalo game: 4/4/6/10/2/1/2/3/2/5/4/12/4/4/0/-3/11/5/6/1/13/1/1/2/4/1

How many negative yards does Maroney usually have in a game? - Bet it averages 2 or 3 per game -

While those yards were not huge for BJGE,99% were positive gains - Not bad for a rookie

If BJGE has another 100 yard game on thursday or against Miami, maybe you will see the light ahead ....

 

[MassPats38]

It is good to hear enthusiasm directed at the play of Green-Ellis, but let's get some perspective here:

(1) offensive line play influences how well running backs perform - short of Barry Sanders, no running back will do well when consistently hit in the backfield. For those running comparisons, check the frequency Cassel has been sacked this season and see if you can dismiss the absence of sacks as all Cassel and not improved line play.

(2) defensive schemes dictate how well running backs perform. Most 8 men in the box defensive schemes will limit a running back to 0 to 2 yards per carry. When Cassel was not expected to pass, what do you expect Maroney saw on defense?

(3) Green-Ellis is likely not the running back equivalent of Tom Brady. Brady was drafted in the 6th round, was not released, and worked his way up the ladder in two preseasons to the number 2 quarterback position. Green-Ellis was outright released after a preseason. Brady's low draft position is likely attributable to doubts as to physical attributes (speed and strength) and the combine cannot measure on-the-field decision-making and leadership, which Brady possesses in spades in addition to his arm strength. Those qualities are revealed only through contact in practice and games. The only conceivable analogy for running backs would be the ability to respond to the speed of the NFL game and the ability to work in an offensive scheme.

(4) Maroney was drafted in the 1st round, Green-Ellis was undrafted. While draft position does not always project NFL success (Curtis Martin was a 3rd round pick and is a Hall of Fame lock), with all the tape available on a running back from college games the skill set is well-documented. As running back success is a product of speed, strength and agility, and all those abilities can be observed and measured, the best current running backs in the NFL are drafted in the first round (Frank Gore was a 3rd round pick). Work ethic may make you incrementally stronger, faster or more agile, but it will not transform you from a low-graded back to a number 1 back. Maroney demonstrated the skill set to earn a 1st round selection (and, believe it, if not the Pats another team would have selected him in that round), Green-Ellis did not do so. The 2 backs are not in the same universe as far as basic running back skills go.

This is not to say Green-Ellis cannot play and enjoy some success in the NFL. He can, he did well last game, and I hope he continues to do so. To say he is doing better than Maroney (injured or otherwise) is to overlook the obvious fact that a running back running against a passing defense (few defenders on the line) or when blockers take out would be tacklers tends to do better than he would against a run defense or poor blocking. The comparison is one of apples and oranges and a simple observation on how frequently Cassel was getting sacked by unblocked defenders early in this season should tell you Maroney was not running behind the same line Green-Ellis now is. If Maroney is released, it will be because he is too fragile, not because Green-Ellis shows him up as some seem to be contending.

 

[VJCPatriot]

(4) Maroney was drafted in the 1st round, Green-Ellis was undrafted. While draft position does not always project NFL success (Curtis Martin was a 3rd round pick and is a Hall of Fame lock), with all the tape available on a running back from college games the skill set is well-documented. As running back success is a product of speed, strength and agility, and all those abilities can be observed and measured, the best current running backs in the NFL are drafted in the first round (Frank Gore was a 3rd round pick). Work ethic may make you incrementally stronger, faster or more agile, but it will not transform you from a low-graded back to a number 1 back. Maroney demonstrated the skill set to earn a 1st round selection (and, believe it, if not the Pats another team would have selected him in that round), Green-Ellis did not do so. The 2 backs are not in the same universe as far as basic running back skills go.

This is not to say Green-Ellis cannot play and enjoy some success in the NFL. He can, he did well last game, and I hope he continues to do so. To say he is doing better than Maroney (injured or otherwise) is to overlook the obvious fact that a running back running against a passing defense (few defenders on the line) or when blockers take out would be tacklers tends to do better than he would against a run defense or poor blocking. The comparison is one of apples and oranges and a simple observation on how frequently Cassel was getting sacked by unblocked defenders early in this season should tell you Maroney was not running behind the same line Green-Ellis now is. If Maroney is released, it will be because he is too fragile, not because Green-Ellis shows him up as some seem to be contending.

Well again you are basing your judgment entirely on draft position. Terrell Davis was a 6th round pick as a RB. How did he do? Exactly. You just can't judge from draft position alone. Once the draft is over, all that matters is, did that player earn a roster spot, and is he being PRODUCTIVE on the field? BJGE had a couple of 1,000 yard seasons in a tough college conference. He isn't suddenly mysteriously producing. He's done it in the past. Due to many circumstances a guy that is rated as a 5th-7th round pick can easily go undrafted, so I'm not going to hold it against him.

And although it is not as likely, even UDFAs proliferate in the NFL. I think the rate is something like 20% of NFL players are UDFAs. That's a pretty signficant statistic. So I think it's foolish to dismiss BJGE based on draft position or lack thereof alone. People should be happy that we've hit on a few UDFA this season. It's like getting young talent for nothing but money and a roster spot. That's a GREAT deal any way you look at it.

Whether Maroney is released or not depends on if the coaching staff decide that he's not worth the roster spot. If BJGE is deemed worthy of becoming the starter, that would make Maroney expendable no? It might not be a direct cause, but it would certainly indirectly affect the coaching staff's decision on who they need to keep around. I still think Maroney is probably worth it as a change of pace back at his salary, but who knows what BB will be thinking by this time next year?

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Its one of several reasons why BB went with 5 RBs this season - He knows Maroney is injury prone who can't go a season without being out 1/4 or more of it.

Why keep a guy who sucks most of the time he is in with the exception of the occasional game where he actually is productive but those occasions are as rare as an uncooked steak

Maroney will be seriously challenged by BJGE or maybe even a surprise FA or early draft pick before week 1 next season - Book it

 

[Deus Irae]

How many negative yards does Maroney usually have in a game? - Bet it averages 2 or 3 per game -

While those yards were not huge for BJGE,99% were positive gains - Not bad for a rookie

If BJGE has another 100 yard game on thursday or against Miami, maybe you will see the light ahead ....

1.) Assuming I counted correctly, last year's number of negative yardage carries, by game, during the regular season:

Jets - 0
Chargers - 0
Buffalo - 3
Miami - 0
Washington - 0
Indianapolis - 1
Buffalo - 1
Philadelphia - 3
Baltimore - 0
Pittsburgh - 1
Jets - 0
Miami - 2
Giants - 4

In the meantime, for comparison's sake, Morris played in 6 games and had 8 runs for negative yardage.

Your argument has no validity.

2.) I have no problem with BJGE, and I accept him for what he is. He's an emergency replacement.

 

[MassPats38]

Well again you are basing your judgment entirely on draft position. . . . If BJGE is deemed worthy of becoming the starter, that would make Maroney expendable no?

First, my judgment is not based entirely on draft position. That was a single factor in a lengthy explanation with 3 other declarations. The point being the marquee number 1 running backs are high draft picks because of proven skill sets that indicate success in the NFL. Maroney is a high draft pick, which means he displayed an NFL caliber skill set in college. Nowhere did I say an undrafted or low pick cannot make the roster. Being on the roster in some capacity is not the same as displacing a number 1 back. There is a difference.

Second, Davis is a good example. He was drafted low because of a substantial injury history in college (frequent debilitating migraines and two hamstring tears) but never was released from the Broncos. He demonstrated he could play in preseason and never looked back. Was that the reason Green-Ellis went undrafted? Davis proved he could play through all his suspected injury tendencies and gave Denver a few great seasons. His low draft position was not attributable to a lesser skill set. If you have evidence Green-Ellis went undrafted because of injury tendencies, by all means give me that link.

Third, in response to your question, if Green-Ellis suddenly demonstrates the skills of a number 1 back, I absolutely agree that status may factor into a decision to release Maroney. The question I return to you is Green-Ellis has been on the practice squad since August 30th and thus on the field observed by the head coach and his staff for all this time. After preseason and 7 weeks of practice, and coincidentally after Maroney was IR'd and Jordan out with an injury, and then being utilized as a second option to Morris against Miami getting carries only after Morris went out with an injury, do you actually believe Belichick was holding him back for some special occasion or risking some other team claiming him off practice squad if he had top-tier abilities?

This team started the season stacked with backs (5), and Green-Ellis did not make the cut. He is a known commodity on the practice squad and was promoted due to injuries to 2 of the 3 backs ahead of him on the roster. While he can certainly make the roster if he performs, and I suspect he could play an all-purpose role next year, I am guessing he was not put on the practice squad to nurture his development. I would like to see him stick around, but other than one good statistical game I do not see his name being mentioned in the discussion to release Maroney next year. If you hear the word explosive mentioned in regard to Green-Ellis, then I will change my tune on the possibility of him occupying a higher roster spot. But you can answer you own question if either Morris or Jordan return and he somehow becomes the second or third option.

 

[DaBruinz]

How many negative yards does Maroney usually have in a game? - Bet it averages 2 or 3 per game -

While those yards were not huge for BJGE,99% were positive gains - Not bad for a rookie

If BJGE has another 100 yard game on thursday or against Miami, maybe you will see the light ahead ....

There is one HUGE problem with this. People like yourself can't be bothered to take into consideration the huge difference in O-line play. Anyone who believes that the O-line is playing the same NOW as it was in the 1st six games of the season clearly has no grasp of football.

Why don't you look at how many NEGATIVE plays Morris had during the 1st 6 games of the season? OH, you can't do that because it would shoot holes in your theory.

Unfortunately, it is you who can't see the light. It is you who can't see the forest for the trees. It is you who is wowed by the latest big flashy gizmo only to realize too late that its not really what you thought it was.

 

[DaBruinz]

Well again you are basing your judgment entirely on draft position. Terrell Davis was a 6th round pick as a RB. How did he do? Exactly. You just can't judge from draft position alone. Once the draft is over, all that matters is, did that player earn a roster spot, and is he being PRODUCTIVE on the field? BJGE had a couple of 1,000 yard seasons in a tough college conference. He isn't suddenly mysteriously producing. He's done it in the past. Due to many circumstances a guy that is rated as a 5th-7th round pick can easily go undrafted, so I'm not going to hold it against him.

And its YOU who are totally ignoring all the other points that AREN'T based on draft position.

And although it is not as likely, even UDFAs proliferate in the NFL. I think the rate is something like 20% of NFL players are UDFAs. That's a pretty signficant statistic. So I think it's foolish to dismiss BJGE based on draft position or lack thereof alone. People should be happy that we've hit on a few UDFA this season. It's like getting young talent for nothing but money and a roster spot. That's a GREAT deal any way you look at it.

Whether Maroney is released or not depends on if the coaching staff decide that he's not worth the roster spot. If BJGE is deemed worthy of becoming the starter, that would make Maroney expendable no? It might not be a direct cause, but it would certainly indirectly affect the coaching staff's decision on who they need to keep around. I still think Maroney is probably worth it as a change of pace back at his salary, but who knows what BB will be thinking by this time next year?

BJGE, for as good as he is running, wasn't good enough to beat out Morris, Jordan or Maroney in TC. Honestly, nothing has changed. If you watched pre-season you'd know that.

What HAS changed is the play of the O-line. Its markedly better. The people on the BJGE bandwagon just ignore that fact. Totally and utterly. Because it destroys your whole premise.

Also, Maroney wouldn't be expendable. If you had followed the league at all this year, you'd know that teams need 2 or 3 competant backs. The Pats have needed 4. Denver is not going on their 5th back. Other teams have also suffered injuries at RB that have made them glad they've got more than 1 good back.