Colts shopping Robert Mathis (pats involved)

[Brady_to_Moss]

He will prob go to the scum bag jets..their D is almost worse than ours

 

[PatsDeb]

Too bad it's not Freeney. If we could get him, that would be great though!

 

[Rusty Coupe]

Mike isn't a source either. That's just his NFLN opinion on Schefter's ESPN speculation...along the lines of almost everyone is available for a price...

I agree that Polian would not trade him to NE unless he's planning on leaving Indy and taking his kid with him... Attendance is plummeting and while that has some immediate impact, the tickets were sold out this season so it has greater dire long term implications for a franchise that basically has to support itself (it's Irsay's sole revenue generating asset). Irsay has been tweeting with an eye towards maintaining interest in his suddenly floundering and increasingly irrelevant franchise. Even to the point of mentioning "Luck". A fire sale of their limited core talent not named Manning or Freeney would not bode well for 2012 season ticket sales...

The thread title is total BS as well since even the rumor isn't about these players being "shopped", let alone to any specific teams or this team in particular, it's solely based on off the cuff comments Schefter made on Sports Center about what he'd do if he were Indy's braintrust, which he isn't.

OTOH it is pretty clear that neither will be re-signed for 2012 with the Colts, and the trade deadline is next week. 2011 is already a sunken effort, so where does that leave Polian. Trading these 2 will offer cover for losing their remaining games, really only the JAX games offer a remote chance of being winnable, which leaves Polian with the first pick.

He drafts Luck, and if he can trade Peyton before the draft and save $90m, plus the additional picks from Wayne, Mathis, and Peyton - Polian is on the path to rebuiling. If Polian does nothing but use his existing draft choices it takes much longer for the Colts to rebuild.

To me, if he trades Mathis and Wayne, it's a signal that Peyton is done in Indy and Polian is in full rebuild mode. This also fits his MO of getting info out, leak it somewhere then after a few days admit to it.

 

[Deus Irae]

I think you are being a bit ingeniousness with your statistics.

There's nothing even a little bit disingenuous about my statistics. I mentioned the numbers and applied them to what I've seen, nothing more.

First - are you implying that only Robert Mathis is slowed down on grass in December in Buffalo/Pitt/NE or is it everyone on the field in the NFL? Because I would be shocked if this guy was dis-proportionally slowed.

I think that he looks slower on grass in suboptimal conditions, yes. The Colts as a team look slower on gras. This is not surprising, because they are built to play with a lead, on a speedy surface.

Second - do you think if someone with raw data ran a few numbers, they'd find that sacks league wide are up or down on grass versus a dome/turf baseline?

Don't know. Don't care. I think the discussion is about Mathis.

Third - Do you think there are more passing downs in a game that is played in a dome (i.e. turf) versus grass?

I think there are more downs played with the lead on the Colts than on any other team except, perhaps, the Patriots.

Fourth - Tom Brady has 37 interceptions at home and 72 on the road in the exact same number of games. How would you interpret that split?

Tom's great on the road and even better at home. This isn't really a surprise, given the team's home record.

Fifth - don't bother going through 10 yrs of Colts schedule and adding up all their away games that happen to be on turf and then writing back.

I won't. It's not really important. Right now, the Colts play half their games in the dome, another game a year in Houston and another game a year in Jacksonville, meaning they get a minimum of 10 games in a warm, good weather environment. That's not what he would be getting if he were in New England for the rest of this season, and his monthly splits show that December is the month where his sack numbers drop, which may mean that he struggles in the weather or tires over the course of the season, and either of those would be an obvious issue about a guy you're trading for at this stage of the season.

I like Mathis as a player. I just don't know if his history would make a rental deal worth it at this time.

 

[Froob]

Would love to have Mathis here but, I think pats would have to blow the colts away with a very good offer unless nobody else wants mathis. I doubt Polian wants to help the pats. Not sure if BB would even bother to call him.

 

[scout]

OTOH it is pretty clear that neither will be re-signed for 2012 with the Colts, and the trade deadline is next week. 2011 is already a sunken effort, so where does that leave Polian. Trading these 2 will offer cover for losing their remaining games, really only the JAX games offer a remote chance of being winnable, which leaves Polian with the first pick.

He drafts Luck, and if he can trade Peyton before the draft and save $90m, plus the additional picks from Wayne, Mathis, and Peyton - Polian is on the path to rebuiling. If Polian does nothing but use his existing draft choices it takes much longer for the Colts to rebuild.

To me, if he trades Mathis and Wayne, it's a signal that Peyton is done in Indy and Polian is in full rebuild mode. This also fits his MO of getting info out, leak it somewhere then after a few days admit to it.

Who is he going to trade Peyton to? The Colts will cut Peyton within five days after the Superbowl which will void the remainder of his contract. Peyton will never play another game.

 

[jbb9s]

That's not what he would be getting if he were in New England for the rest of this season, and his monthly splits show that December is the month where his sack numbers drop, which may mean that he struggles in the weather or tires over the course of the season, and either of those would be an obvious issue about a guy you're trading for at this stage of the season.

Wow - once again, using splits illogically.

The reason Mathis has less sacks in the month of December is that there are less passing plays that he is defensing. Its impossible to record a sack on a running play.

If you think that its because Mathis "tires", I would question your logic. You say he is built for turf too because of a skew in sack numbers home v away (whopping 1.5 sacks avg per yr over his career btw which is statistically noise)

Both your assertions are unsubstantiated.

If Mathis and 100 other defensive lineman were timed in a 40 on turf in September and again on frozen Lambeau field in January after 16 games, are you still maintaining that Mathis' 40 time would dis-proportionally slow compared to everyone else?

 

[patsinthesnow]

Jim Irsay
No,the trade rumors aren't true...I'm negotiating 2 buy Mars though..so I can ensure inter-galactic,NFL dominance for the 25th century

uhhhhhh....

 

[MoLewisrocks]

OTOH it is pretty clear that neither will be re-signed for 2012 with the Colts, and the trade deadline is next week. 2011 is already a sunken effort, so where does that leave Polian. Trading these 2 will offer cover for losing their remaining games, really only the JAX games offer a remote chance of being winnable, which leaves Polian with the first pick.

He drafts Luck, and if he can trade Peyton before the draft and save $90m, plus the additional picks from Wayne, Mathis, and Peyton - Polian is on the path to rebuiling. If Polian does nothing but use his existing draft choices it takes much longer for the Colts to rebuild.

To me, if he trades Mathis and Wayne, it's a signal that Peyton is done in Indy and Polian is in full rebuild mode. This also fits his MO of getting info out, leak it somewhere then after a few days admit to it.

Irsay: Trade rumors aren’t true, negotiating to buy Mars | ProFootballTalk

And like scout stated, they will never trade Peyton. He has an option due prior to the start of FA that they will either pick up or he's a FA. And if they don't pick it up it will be because he cannot play. At which time they will have dead cap ramifications as well. He's not starting over somewhere else, legacy matters to much to him - and to them financially going forward. And it's still not a lock they are in place to draft Luck...there are a couple of teams in contention for that slot and a lot can happen between now and late next April...

 

[Deus Irae]

Wow - once again, using splits illogically.

Using them in a manner that is different than you would choose is not the same as using them illogically.

The reason Mathis has less sacks in the month of December is that there are less passing plays that he is defensing. Its impossible to record a sack on a running play.

If you think that its because Mathis "tires", I would question your logic. You say he is built for turf too because of a skew in sack numbers home v away (whopping 1.5 sacks avg per yr over his career btw which is statistically noise)

Both your assertions are unsubstantiated.

Your assertions are the ones that are unsubstantiated. Again, your take being different than mine does not make my take illogical. On a per game basis, Mathis suffers a slight statistical drop in sacks in the second half of the season, and a more significant drop in tackles in the second half of the season. If teams are running more and passing less, his tackle numbers should be higher, not lower.

If Mathis and 100 other defensive lineman were timed in a 40 on turf in September and again on frozen Lambeau field in January after 16 games, are you still maintaining that Mathis' 40 time would dis-proportionally slow compared to everyone else?

A speed player losing speed would be more likely to be impacted than a power player losing a bit of speed, because speed is obviously the speed player's game. (Using example numbers rather than searching for actual times) If Vollmer falls from a 5.0 to a 5.2, that's likely to be less devastating to his game than Mathis falling from a 4.5 to a 4.7.

 

[BlueThunder]

Getting involved in the Mathis trade would at least up the ante for the other clubs.....especially if the Jets wanted to lowball for him.....If the Pats offer a third , the Jets would have to match it ...The Pats have more ammo than the Jets as far as Draft picks if I recall.....

Polian isn't going to trade one of his team's better players to a rival ( unless it was really really worth it).......

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Getting involved in the Mathis trade would at least up the ante for the other clubs.....especially if the Jets wanted to lowball for him.....If the Pats offer a third , the Jets would have to match it ...The Pats have more ammo than the Jets as far as Draft picks if I recall.....

Polian isn't going to trade one of his team's better players to a rival ( unless it was really really worth it).......

There isn't any trade to get involved in... :bricks:

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Irsay reportedly laughed at the notion of trading his players.

He said he is also in negotiations of buying planet Mars so he can rule the Galaxy.

This is just squabble and a huge waste of a thread.....no one is leaving Indy

 

[jbb9s]

Using them in a manner that it different than you would choose is not the same as using them illogically.



Your assertions are the ones that are unsubstantiated. Again, your take being different than mind does not make my take illogical. On a per game basis, Mathis suffers a slight statistical drop in sacks in the second half of the season, and a more significant drop in tackles in the second half of the season. If teams are running more and passing less, his tackle numbers should be higher, not lower.



A speed player losing speed would be more likely to be impacted than a power player losing a bit of speed, because speed is obviously the speed player's game. (Using example numbers rather than searching for actual times) If Vollmer falls from a 5.0 to a 5.2, that's likely to be less devastating to his game than Mathis falling from a 4.5 to a 4.7.

you make some point there. i guess at the end of the day i think that Mathis could do better here than whoever on the team he would replace. And I also think if BB can convert a 34 to a 43 after drafting 34 players for years, then he could also somehow find a place for Mathis coming from a different system.

I also think that Mathis probably wouldn't need to play 65 snaps game here so he might be fresher at the end. Finally, the asking price is nominal since 1.5MM is budget-dust to Kraft and the team is under the cap.

 

[lamafist]

Even if Mathis were really on the trade block, I wouldn't be all that high on him.

I think many teams have wound up disappointed after acquiring the "other guy" in an edge-rushing duo.

 

[lurker1965]

Source:Colts shopping DE Robert Mathis(Falcons / Jets / Raiders / Pats) all involved as of now (Colts want a #3)

No thanks. When Freeny was out he disappeared.

 

[PittPatriot]

These things are fun to think about but almost never come to fruition.

I'd have agreed with you 5 year ago…but with trades for Moss, Welker, Haynesworth, Ochocinco, and probably some others I am missing - I think the Pats are always in the thick of things when big names move.
They are fun to think about...

 

[VJCPatriot]

Oh really? Why dont you scroll up a bit in this thread and read where I clearly prefaced my post:

Sure it would help our team a lot more to trade for Ed Reed, but since that ain't happening...

And then I continue on to talk about the possibilities of Mathis. So really, actually READ my posts before you make accusations that are untrue. I believe that IS one of your pet peeves about others' responses to you, isnt it? So please do the same amount of due diligence on your part.

Most people look at the Pats Pass Defense and recognize that the Safeties are a bigger issue than the pass rush. They see that they have been forcing guys like Sanchez, Campbell and Rivers to throw the ball, not from the pocket, but outside the pocket or flat out on the run. But people like yourself ignore stuff like that because it suits your argument.

Sanchez sucks - he's an outlier, not only has he tanked going into his 3rd NFL season, he's playing for an imploding Jets franchise that has the WRs sniping at the OL and vice versa.
Campbell - 25/39 344 passing yards
Rivers - 29/40 378 passing yards

And how about the other QBs you fail to mention:
Fitzpatrick - 27/40 369 passing yards
Henne 30/49 419 passing yards

Come on now. Let's take the blinders off and look at the COLD HARD FACTS. The Patriots currently have the worst pass defense in the ENTIRE league. And this mythical 'pass rush' of which you speak of has clearly NOT done enough to help out that secondary. Just wondering, were you one of those posters who adamantly insisted that a receiving corps composed of Jabar Gaffney and Reche "bugeyes" Caldwell were perfectly adequate for the Pats to win with? And the next year, didn't BB go out and get Welker and Moss, leading to the greatest offensive team of all time? Yeah, I thought so.

 

[jbb9s]

I'd have agreed with you 5 year ago…but with trades for Moss, Welker, Haynesworth, Ochocinco, and probably some others I am missing - I think the Pats are always in the thick of things when big names move.
They are fun to think about...

You forgot when about 30% of this board wanted to trade Brady after Cassell's 2008 season and Adalius Thomas, when it took everyone about 4 weeks to agree his nickname was AD not AT.

Funny thing is, its the unsexy signings like Brain Waters, that no casual fans talk about, that have actually contributed most. Kind of like Bodden two years ago when he was a beast and played his @ss off for BB.

 

[Off The Grid]

Oh...YES...let's PLEASE flush a 3rd Rounder down the toilet on a 30 year old, 6.2/240 Pound...SHRIMP!!! :rocker: