Collins

[reflexblue]

Rowe for a 3rd no big deal drafts picks are not guaranteed to pan out anyway ie..Aaron Dobson - Tavon Wilson and Jodon Richards. I would take proven player over Draft Pick anyday of the week.

I don't like saying but those picks you posted are BB specials. I don't know if any other GM would do as poorly in the second round so consistantly going back 15 years. The second rnd is like a black hole for the pats.

 

[patsfan13]

Missed this thread the first time props to the OP for calling his shot and being right on the money.

 

[PatsFan2]

I don't like saying but those picks you posted are BB specials. I don't know if any other GM would do as poorly in the second round so consistantly going back 15 years. The second rnd is like a black hole for the pats.

Up until last spring I wanted them to just Trade Completely out of the 3rd. Seems like we have more luck with 4th, 5th and 7th Rounders.

 

[JarOfMayo51]

Good up-ing. You were right about Collins, even if most here would call you out.

Good reminder that critiscim shouldnt be disregarded, even when winning. There's always a way to improve oneself

I'm not accusing OP of this, but I don't think any posters here have a problem when people criticize certain aspects or players on the team when it's warranted

The issue is when you have some posters that literally criticize EVERYTHING that the Pats do, the coach, Brady, every player, the coordinators, the schemes, the draft picks.. etc

You aren't smart or clever if you're just a pessimistic ass all the time and find fault in everything.. you'll eventually be right, but not because you're a genius..

Again, just want to emphasize that I'm not putting the OP into that category... but generally speaking we have a handful of posters here that Im not even sure are actual Pats fans.. they're negative about literally everything as it relates to this team who are 12-2, #1 defense, top 5 offense...

Its like they get joy in the team failing and care more about being right than the team having success... it's really weird.

And AGAIN, this is not directed at you OP haha

 

[neuronet]

I'm not accusing OP of this, but I don't think any posters here have a problem when people critisize certain aspects or players on the team when it's warranted

The issue is when you have some posters that literally criticize EVERYTHING that the Pats do, the coach, Brady, every player, the coordinators, the schemes, the draft picks.. etc

You aren't smart or clever if you're just a pessimistic ass all the time and find fault in everything.. you'll eventually be right, but not because you're a genius..

Again, just want to emphasize that I'm not putting the OP into that category... but generally speaking we have a handful of posters here that Im not even sure are actual Pats fans.. they're negative about literally everything as it relates to this team who are 12-2, #1 defense, top 5 offense...

Its like they get joy in the team failing and care more about being right than the team having success... it's really weird.

And AGAIN, this is not directed at you OP haha

Yes the OP was actually unique in that he gave a bunch of great gifs, specific examples, not just generic whining and hand-wringing.

 

[rochrist]

Patriots trade score card!

Chandler Jones to AZ for 2nd round pick and Cooper (drafted Thuney and Mitchell).
AJ Derby to Den for 5th round pick.
Eric Rowe to Pats for 4th round pick.
Kyle Van Noy to Pats for 7th round pick.

Overall I don't see a bad trade here but the worst was Rowe for a 4th even though he has done okay at the 3rd CB spot. Derby for a 5th is TBD but at least it didn't hurt them.

Eh. I'm still not thrilled with the Derby deal, although it was a fair return on an undrafted rookie. But he's on pace to catch 43 balls in a full season as a rookie TE which is pretty good, especially with that offense. Given the uncertainty with Gronk going forward, it would have been nice to have him around.

 

[The Gr8est]

I don't like saying but those picks you posted are BB specials. I don't know if any other GM would do as poorly in the second round so consistantly going back 15 years. The second rnd is like a black hole for the pats.

Yup, just like Duron Harmon.

You know Tavon Wilson is starting in Detroit, right?

 

[patfanken]

Yup, just like Duron Harmon.

You know Tavon Wilson is starting in Detroit, right?

...and has 10 more tackles than Pro bowler, Danta Hightower.

Wilson wasn't a bad player, he was just stuck behind McCourty, Chung and Harmon and not worth signing him beyond his rookie contract.

 

[rochrist]

I don't like saying but those picks you posted are BB specials. I don't know if any other GM would do as poorly in the second round so consistantly going back 15 years. The second rnd is like a black hole for the pats.

Gronkowski, Garappolo, Matt Light, Sebastian Vollmer, Pat Chung, Shane Vereen, Jamie Collins, Eugene Wilson?

 

[patchick]

I don't like saying but those picks you posted are BB specials. I don't know if any other GM would do as poorly in the second round so consistantly going back 15 years. The second rnd is like a black hole for the pats.

Lots of misses, absolutely -- I'm sure BB would be the first to say too many. And yet, since 2009 the Pats have also drafted 2 All-Pros in the second round (Gronkowski, Vollmer) and an apparent starting-quality QB (Garoppolo).

If you actually look around the league at second-round hit rates, you might be surprised how low it is. Baltimore is generally considered a strong drafting team under Ozzie Newsome. Here's their full lineup of second rounders since 2009. How many All-Pros do you see?

Kamalei Correa
Maxx Williams
Timmy Jernigan
Arthur Brown
Kelechi Osemele
Torrey Smith
Sergio Kindle
Terrence Cody
Paul Kruger

 

[50-yard-line]

Lots of misses, absolutely -- I'm sure BB would be the first to say too many. And yet, since 2009 the Pats have also drafted 2 All-Pros in the second round (Gronkowski, Vollmer) and an apparent starting-quality QB (Garoppolo).

If you actually look around the league at second-round hit rates, you might be surprised how low it is. Baltimore is generally considered a strong drafting team under Ozzie Newsome. Here's their full lineup of second rounders since 2009. How many All-Pros do you see?

Kamalei Correa
Maxx Williams
Timmy Jernigan
Arthur Brown
Kelechi Osemele
Torrey Smith
Sergio Kindle
Terrence Cody
Paul Kruger

I sooo wanted Timmy Jernigan.

 

[JMC00]

So Collins is pulling the same **** that got him dealt?

SHOCKER

 

[BradyFTW!]

I don't like saying but those picks you posted are BB specials. I don't know if any other GM would do as poorly in the second round so consistantly going back 15 years. The second rnd is like a black hole for the pats.

In the Belichick era, we've had 21 second round picks, and 10 of them have turned into legit NFL starters: Light, Deion Branch, Eugene Wilson, Chung, Vollmer, Gronk, Spikes, Vereen, Collins and Garoppolo.

There have definitely been misses, but if you subscribe to the conventional wisdom that about 50% of 2nd rounders should turn into NFL starters, we're right in the ballpark of where we should be on batting average. Plus, to stick with the analogy, we're hitting for real power on some of them.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I'm not accusing OP of this, but I don't think any posters here have a problem when people criticize certain aspects or players on the team when it's warranted

The issue is when you have some posters that literally criticize EVERYTHING that the Pats do, the coach, Brady, every player, the coordinators, the schemes, the draft picks.. etc

You aren't smart or clever if you're just a pessimistic ass all the time and find fault in everything.. you'll eventually be right, but not because you're a genius..

Again, just want to emphasize that I'm not putting the OP into that category... but generally speaking we have a handful of posters here that Im not even sure are actual Pats fans.. they're negative about literally everything as it relates to this team who are 12-2, #1 defense, top 5 offense...

Its like they get joy in the team failing and care more about being right than the team having success... it's really weird.

And AGAIN, this is not directed at you OP haha

There are some posters that can't handle any criticism of the Pats at all, but for the most part I think everyone knows who they are and pretty much just discounts them when it's time to have a real discussion that requires a bit of objectivity.

They're definitely a small minority, though.

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

Gronkowski, Garappolo, Matt Light, Sebastian Vollmer, Pat Chung, Shane Vereen, Jamie Collins, Eugene Wilson?

Bust after bust....the guy has no clue how to draft

 

[NormZauchin]

When I saw the thread title Collins I thought for sure it was about Todd.

Actually, Jamie Collins' inability to push Beckham out of bounds brings back memories of one of the more infamous plays in Patriot history, when Todd Collins failed to push Kordell Stewart out of bounds and saw him tiptoe down the sideline for a 40 yard touchdown, resulting in a 7-6 Steelers win in the divisional playoff game in January, 1998.

 

[n6249c]

And the beast got traded. I guess I spoke too soon...

It was that small sample size that got you.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

So Collins is pulling the same **** that got him dealt?

SHOCKER

On the flip side, he's had the most tackles on their defense over that time frame, and he's had a couple sacks. Overall his entire season stat line (including Patriots and Browns) is about 100 tackles, 3 sacks, 2 INTs, and a handful of pass deflections. He's still a pretty talented player. He's just been inconsistent and doesn't seem to always give full effort or follow the gameplan. That's why he's not here anymore, but he's still the best defensive player the Browns have.

 

[fnordcircle]

Yeah, that whole sequence of events with Steward and Collins still annoys me.

Say what you want about Carroll, but he did do some fun stuff with our defense. 7-6, can you imagine that?

 

[jah]

On the flip side, he's had the most tackles on their defense over that time frame, and he's had a couple sacks. Overall his entire season stat line (including Patriots and Browns) is about 100 tackles, 3 sacks, 2 INTs, and a handful of pass deflections. He's still a pretty talented player. He's just been inconsistent and doesn't seem to always give full effort or follow the gameplan. That's why he's not here anymore, but he's still the best defensive player the Browns have.

Yep. For all his flaws, he's still seen as a gift from above by the fanbase and re-signing him is considered a no-brainer.