Cassel is starting by design

[Ring 6]

To a certain extent Cassel must be an unknown quantity to BB and everyone else on the coaching staff, because he's never started a game in the NFL and hasn't experienced firsthand most of what defenses can throw at him under fire. As for veteran backups having failed elsewhere: That's where coaching makes the difference. This is a veteran team with Super Bowl aspirations, and history has shown what retreads can do with a strong supporting cast. But, it also shows what an unknown like 2001 Brady can do with the right coaching. Cassel's situation is quite unique, in that his last significant game experience was in freakin' high school. I just hope the faith that's been placed in him is well founded, because otherwise it'll prove a personnel blunder of monumental proportions.



Huard was playing for the Herm-coached Chiefs, not the Patriots. One of his passes on the last series was on the money and dropped in the end zone.

I'm not quite sure what you are expecting.
A QB who is available today is either unwanted or expendable.
I don't really care about experience when the experience has produced poor results.
i.e. Lets go get Joey Harrington because he has started 50 NFL games. To me he is the last guy we want becuase his experience PROVES HE IS BAD.
Show me someone with experience that PROVES THEY ARE GOOD, and I'm all over it, otherwise give me the guy with no experience, good or bad.

You alleded to a lot of retread QBs being successful. I do not think you will find that. We are talking about EXPERIENCED QBs who were out of work, found work and succeeded.
I am positive that there are MANY, MANY more who never played before and had success when they first did, ala, Brady, Warner, Roehtliesberger, to name a few.

 

[apple strudel]

The original post basically states that Cassell is starting because he is the backup and the starter is out, and that the front office tries to get the best backups possible. It is essentially re-stating the definition of "backup". It is also true for every other backup on the team. While it is technically correct, I'm not sure it adds anything to the already blowy conversation about the QB situation.

 

[Tunescribe]

I'm not quite sure what you are expecting.
A QB who is available today is either unwanted or expendable.
I don't really care about experience when the experience has produced poor results.
i.e. Lets go get Joey Harrington because he has started 50 NFL games. To me he is the last guy we want becuase his experience PROVES HE IS BAD.
Show me someone with experience that PROVES THEY ARE GOOD, and I'm all over it, otherwise give me the guy with no experience, good or bad.

You alleded to a lot of retread QBs being successful. I do not think you will find that. We are talking about EXPERIENCED QBs who were out of work, found work and succeeded.
I am positive that there are MANY, MANY more who never played before and had success when they first did, ala, Brady, Warner, Roehtliesberger, to name a few.

Read my subsequent posts. I'm not in favor of bringing a street veteran in at this juncture to take over for Cassel, it's much too late for that. This discussion began over whether having a veteran backup on the roster for a Super Bowl-ready team was an important insurance policy. It's a policy BB has endorsed in the past, but that he didn't employ this season because (A.) the right player wasn't available, or (B). he's wanted Cassel in that role all along, as you suggest. I hope you are right and that things pan out. It's just a remarkably unprecedented situation.

 

[emoney_33]

Read my subsequent posts. I'm not in favor of bringing a street veteran in at this juncture to take over for Cassel, it's much too late for that. This discussion began over whether having a veteran backup on the roster for a Super Bowl-ready team was an important insurance policy. It's a policy BB has endorsed in the past, but that he didn't employ this season because (A.) the right player wasn't available, or (B). he's wanted Cassel in that role all along, as you suggest. I hope you are right and that things pan out. It's just a remarkably unprecedented situation.

99 Warner and 01 Brady say it's not "remarkably unprecedented"

 

[Tunescribe]

99 Warner and 01 Brady say it's not "remarkably unprecedented"

Really? Seems to me, Brady got quite a bit of experience starting in college, and Warner started for college and Arena Football League teams. I'd say Cassel's having not started a football game since high school is pretty damn REMARKABLY UNPRECEDENTED.

 

[Ring 6]

Read my subsequent posts. I'm not in favor of bringing a street veteran in at this juncture to take over for Cassel, it's much too late for that. This discussion began over whether having a veteran backup on the roster for a Super Bowl-ready team was an important insurance policy. It's a policy BB has endorsed in the past, but that he didn't employ this season because (A.) the right player wasn't available, or (B). he's wanted Cassel in that role all along, as you suggest. I hope you are right and that things pan out. It's just a remarkably unprecedented situation.

Well, that is exactly the point I was trying to make.
BB has made a decision about who he wants at QB if Brady goes down.
He didnt make it yesterday, he has made it over the past 4 years.

BB CHOSE to NOT have the type of QB you are talking about, and CHOSE Cassel insteade.

Regardless of timing, Cassel is a better option for BB. Who would you have acquired that BB didnt?

 

[Ring 6]

The original post basically states that Cassell is starting because he is the backup and the starter is out, and that the front office tries to get the best backups possible. It is essentially re-stating the definition of "backup". It is also true for every other backup on the team. While it is technically correct, I'm not sure it adds anything to the already blowy conversation about the QB situation.

Well, there has been a lot of commentary on this board suggesting that BB has slept through the backup QB decision-making process, and NOW he needs to do something.
My point is that he has been doing something all along, and his HANDPICKED successor to Brady is Matt Cassel.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I personally am not among those calling for a veteran backup to be brought in NOW. It's too late for that. But there must be something to the practice of having one on the active roster as BB has in years past with Testaverde, Flutie, Huard, Miller, etc. I would assume if the right veteran candidate had been available for that specific role, BB would have him on the team.

It was dependent on the situation. Flutie, Testaverde and Miller were available. All were good attitude, savvy, team players. At the time Brady had just lost his OC and a young and inexperienced in-house OC was stepping into the breach. His #2 backup at that juncture was Rohan Davey...or Rohan Davey and an rookie 7th rounder who hadn't played in college. Each eas added as much to be a mentor and sounding board as anything. They couldn't run the offense either... They were there to be emergency backups for in game use. Had they lost the starter longer either the develomental backup would have been coached up or they'd have brought in another candidate to take over long term.

Huard priced himself off the roster at a time when cap space was at a premium. A career backup who had 1 more career single digits TD than INT when we acquired him and who had 1 incomplete attempt in two seasons here. He also didn't have an attempt in his next two seasons and while he did well filling in for a concussed QB with a powerhouse offense two years ago at 33 he's thrown 1 more pick than TD for them in the last 12 games he's appeared in...

There was no veteran leadership backup the first half of 2006 or at all in 2008 because Brady and Cassel and the OC didn't need that any longer. Now with Brady down they do need depth to backup the backup. But that's in hindsight. Except for Gruden nobody carries 4 QB's into the season. And he only does that because he doesn't really have a viable starter. Garcia is hurt again - he's always hurt. And yet they cut Simms - a guy they drafted with 4 years and starter experience in their system - so go figure.

BTW at the end of the day starting in college or the arena league or being named the MVP of NFL Europe really has little or nothing to do with your success in the NFL... Playing against burger flippers... That people can't grasp that is why teams and fans keep making the same costly mistakes in judgement.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Some of you guys confuse me...

Some of you say Matt is the best QB for the job because he has been in the system for four years but if I told you that someone like Kerry Collins or Byron Leftwich were available you would pass on it?

Matt has been with the system for 4 years but I would still take a proven QB who has started in the league with experience against many of the other teams than a guy who has stood on the sidelines and was last a starter when he was 17 years old.

If you have talent then you have talent,if you don't then you don't - You either can throw the ball on target or you throw wailing passes that get intercepted regardless of how familiar you are with the team - its in the arm and the accuracy of the player not just what the playbook says or how familiar you are with the system,I don't think Cassel has IT and he has something to prove to all of Pats Nation in the upcoming weeks and games.

The next few games should show if Cassel is a leader type of QB or is he a lifetime NFL follower who is only subject to emergency or garbage time QB play time.

 

[Tunescribe]

Well, that is exactly the point I was trying to make.
BB has made a decision about who he wants at QB if Brady goes down.
He didnt make it yesterday, he has made it over the past 4 years.

BB CHOSE to NOT have the type of QB you are talking about, and CHOSE Cassel insteade.

Regardless of timing, Cassel is a better option for BB. Who would you have acquired that BB didnt?

I don't know what suitable veterans might've been on the radar screen last spring. Have you ever stopped to consider that other factors might have been involved? I'm just hoping the decision to keep Cassel as No. 1 backup (at $540k) was not a gamble heavily influenced by financial considerations and possibly a false sense of security over Tom's injury free string of consecutive starts. I'm not suggesting that BB handled this wrong, just that with an entire season now suddenly in Cassel's hands, it looks more and more like a risky move. Only time will tell.

 

[ALP]

I think no matter who steps out there, the Pats are done. 9-7 at best. Good luck making a wild card now. KARMA is catching up with the Pats.

Lol...i cant imagine how many other teams' fans are going to need to go to the ER when the pats make the playoffs...

 

[Ring 6]

Some of you guys confuse me...

Some of you say Matt is the best QB for the job because he has been in the system for four years but if I told you that someone like Kerry Collins or Byron Leftwich were available you would pass on it?

Matt has been with the system for 4 years but I would still take a proven QB who has started in the league with experience against many of the other teams than a guy who has stood on the sidelines and was last a starter when he was 17 years old.

If you have talent then you have talent,if you don't then you don't - You either can throw the ball on target or you throw wailing passes that get intercepted regardless of how familiar you are with the team - its in the arm and the accuracy of the player not just what the playbook says or how familiar you are with the system,I don't think Cassel has IT and he has something to prove to all of Pats Nation in the upcoming weeks and games.

The next few games should show if Cassel is a leader type of QB or is he a lifetime NFL follower who is only subject to emergency or garbage time QB play time.

What I am saying is I would rather have Cassel, WHO BB HAS CHOSEN FOR THE JOB OVER THE LAST 4 YEARS, than to bring in someone like Leftwch who BB has decided that Cassel is better than (by his personel decisions) just because he has experience playing bad QB.

That is just the part of this I do not get. Why do you want someone with experience when the experience is playing bad football rather than good.

Here is an example. You are looking for a department manager. you can either promote your guy who you have groomed to be the replacement, or hire from outside by hiring the expereinced guy who is out of a job and was fired by oyur competitor. What is the value of that experience?

 

[Ring 6]

I don't know what suitable veterans might've been on the radar screen last spring. Have you ever stopped to consider that other factors might have been involved? I'm just hoping the decision to keep Cassel as No. 1 backup (at $540k) was not a gamble heavily influenced by financial considerations and possibly a false sense of security over Tom's injury free string of consecutive starts. I'm not suggesting that BB handled this wrong, just that with an entire season now suddenly in Cassel's hands, it looks more and more like a risky move. Only time will tell.

Of course there are a lot of factors. The money factor is inconsequential to me because we had the money, still have cap room, and spent heavily on other backups as well.
The end result to me is that BB wanted Cassel as his backup QB, and starter if Brady went down, over EVERYONE ELSE HE COULD HAVE GOTTEN.
Bill Belichick believed while building his roster that there was not a better option out there that gave the team a better chance to win if Tom Brady got hurt than Matt Cassel. That is as factual as factual gets.
I also think we know BB well enough to know he didn't mangle the decision by forgetting that Brady could get hurt just because he hadn't yet.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Some of you guys confuse me...

Some of you say Matt is the best QB for the job because he has been in the system for four years but if I told you that someone like Kerry Collins or Byron Leftwich were available you would pass on it?

Matt has been with the system for 4 years but I would still take a proven QB who has started in the league with experience against many of the other teams than a guy who has stood on the sidelines and was last a starter when he was 17 years old.

If you have talent then you have talent,if you don't then you don't - You either can throw the ball on target or you throw wailing passes that get intercepted regardless of how familiar you are with the team - its in the arm and the accuracy of the player not just what the playbook says or how familiar you are with the system,I don't think Cassel has IT and he has something to prove to all of Pats Nation in the upcoming weeks and games.

The next few games should show if Cassel is a leader type of QB or is he a lifetime NFL follower who is only subject to emergency or garbage time QB play time.

Why do you want to sign a failed experience? Why do you want to sign a guy with no experience in fitting this kind of system? When did Leftwich throw on target or show leadership? Collins failures extend beyond the field of play and he's signed to backup the headcase in Tennessee poorly as it is...

 

[Tunescribe]

BTW at the end of the day starting in college or the arena league or being named the MVP of NFL Europe really has little or nothing to do with your success in the NFL... Playing against burger flippers... That people can't grasp that is why teams and fans keep making the same costly mistakes in judgement.

It doesn't correlate apples to apples, but the development process inherent to performing under game conditions at whatever level is something most players will tell you can't be fully simulated in practice.

 

[JSn]

Here is an example. You are looking for a department manager. you can either promote your guy who you have groomed to be the replacement, or hire from outside by hiring the expereinced guy who is out of a job and was fired by your competitor. What is the value of that experience?

That's an excellent analogy.
To add to that, this guys been groomed, been an understudy to the best QB in the NFL and there is no real game-tape on the guy to be of any use in trying to take the guy on.

Get a quarterback with a mediocre record and plenty of game-tape who doesn't know the system... that's asking for trouble. Bill likes using mystery as a weapon and now he's got the equivalent of a mystery bazooka. Cassel has as much chance of turning into a bigtime QB as any rookie out there this year, not just based on how his coaches have felt all along, but based on his last three years in the league's premiere football school, the New England Patriots.

He played no garbage time Sunday and they won it. **Has everyone forgotten that Tom accounts for NO positives in that game? When Cassel took over, the Defense was on the field as Moss had just given up a fumble. It irritates me that this isn't mentioned anywhere.


**I'm not bashing Tom, just pointing out a fact.

 

[arrellbee]

Matt Cassel is not our Qb because BB forgot he needed someone if Brady got hurt. He is not our QB because BB just gambled that Brady wouldn't get hurt. He is not our QB because BB while splitting hairs, and bringing in as much competition as humnaly possible for all other 51 rosters spots, just thought 2nd and 3rd QB was a spot to put a mascot or someone you just kinda like.
Matt Cassel is our starting QB now because Bll Belichick has decided, OVER THE LAST FOURS YEARS, that he is the best option out there.

Hi Andy. That would seem to sum it up.

I'm not quite sure what you are expecting.
A QB who is available today is either unwanted or expendable.
I don't really care about experience when the experience has produced poor results.
i.e. Lets go get Joey Harrington because he has started 50 NFL games. To me he is the last guy we want becuase his experience PROVES HE IS BAD.
Show me someone with experience that PROVES THEY ARE GOOD, and I'm all over it, otherwise give me the guy with no experience, good or bad.

You alleded to a lot of retread QBs being successful. I do not think you will find that. We are talking about EXPERIENCED QBs who were out of work, found work and succeeded.
I am positive that there are MANY, MANY more who never played before and had success when they first did, ala, Brady, Warner, Roehtliesberger, to name a few.

Bold typeface is my emphasis on Andy's comment. I think it is so much to the point.

I am especially horrified with any thought of folks who think Culpepper wouldn't be an absolute disaster. The guy doesn't run an offensive scheme - he just goes out there and 'plays' QB. Ugh.

If Belichick brings in a 'veteran' (retread), it seems like we could figure that it is somebody whom Belichick thinks might have been capable but not coached very well or used optimally. I have no idea which QB out there (if any) that might be. We might find out.

 

[neuronet]

Matt Cassel is not our Qb because BB forgot he needed someone if Brady got hurt. He is not our QB because BB just gambled that Brady wouldn't get hurt. He is not our QB because BB while splitting hairs, and bringing in as much competition as humnaly possible for all other 51 rosters spots, just thought 2nd and 3rd QB was a spot to put a mascot or someone you just kinda like.
Matt Cassel is our starting QB now because Bll Belichick has decided, OVER THE LAST FOURS YEARS, that he is the best option out there.

:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

Head of nail hit.

 

[CheerforTom]

Lol...i cant imagine how many other teams' fans are going to need to go to the ER when the pats make the playoffs...

Forget the playoffs, can you imagine the reactions if Cassel throws 3 TDs next weekend? There'll be mass suicides.

 

[patfanken]

I think AJ has a good point. I think we all forget that a QB not only has to be talented, he has to be a good fit for THIS system. Drew Bledsoe for all his faults was a very good QB, but not for THIS system. So when BB was looking for a back up that was a key question. Someone like Cullpepper might sound like a good fit, but Cullpepper is more like Bledsoe in style than Brady and that would be a problem

Three additional points. 1. I know Cassell looked like crap this preseason, but that pass from the GL, was not only a laser, but it was incredibly CLUTCH. It showed us all the potential that we hope will become a consistent feature of his game. 2. That being said, I hope we all understand when we see a few games this year when Cassell bombs, just like Brady did in Denver and Miami in 2001. 3. I have no problem, and fully expect BB to bring in a vet QB to back up Cassell. T Rattay would be my favorite, mostly because of the perfect symmetry it would bring, but no matter who we bring in, it would be 4-6 weeks before any vet other than John Huard could be game ready.