Can our D improve by scheme/act of will?

Discussion in ' - Patriots Fan Forum' started by JSn, Nov 27, 2008.

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  1. JSn

    JSn Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    So I saw an article at the Herald today (by Karen G) in which Vince talks about the D. Some choice quotes:

    Vince Wilfork & Co. vow defense will stiffen -


    I like this attitude. Obviously, attitude isn't enough, but I wonder if Sunday will be the beginning of a new vibe on defense?

    My question to those of you who are long time fans with heads full of football memories: can a defense improve quickly, without "upgrades", through scheming, studying and force of will?

    I think we've seen it in our offense this year. The thing is, our D has ONE game to show progress. They might be able to be soft against Oakland or Seattle (maybe) but this Sunday they have to show something, some kind of spark. Is there precedent or is it simply the rare stuff of Disney movies I'm hoping for?
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2008
  2. Fanfrom1960

    Fanfrom1960 In the Starting Line-Up

    The Colts did (improve their D) late in the year they (having trouble typing it) won the super bowl.
  3. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

    Yes we can improve if we play more bump and run. I don't remember us bumping receivers at the line since 2004.
  4. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? Supporter

    No Jersey Selected

    Oddly enough, that was the year Crennel left. Do the Browns play more bump and run with their 3-4? The only Brows game I watched this season was v.s. the Giants and I didn't notice to be honest.
  5. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

    It is a lot harder to convert 3rd and long when your receivers are getting bumped.
    It is a lot easier to get interceptions because you screw up the QB's timing, and it also helps the pass rush because you slow their plays down.

    Basically bump and run dramatically improves pass defense and pass rush, IF you have the personnel to do it.

    Unfortunately since Law left we've had a bunch of less physical smurf corners.
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2008
  6. BionicPatriot

    BionicPatriot In the Starting Line-Up

    What you people fail to understand is we improved by leaps and bounds in 2005. Going into the playoffs, outside of that fluke Dolphin game, the Pats were a scary team. They were absolutely terrible and then they had something like the best 3 weeks stretch in franchise history. It was because they changed up the scheme. They found ways to bring pressure.

    It's a scheme problem. Yes we're just hurt, but we need to adjust our scheme. The whole falling back in coverage just doesn't cut it against the elite of the NFL. We need to bring more heat, and I imagine they'll start drawing some things up. I think they'll improve. How much is the question.

    Look, that 05 defense was worse than this defense. Duane Starks made anyone in this secondary a HOF. McGoo was on his last leg. If Bill turned that D around, I think hes more than earned our optimistic beliefs.
  7. RoughingthePasser

    RoughingthePasser Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    Good thread.
    We need some new guys to step it up and apply some heat. I think we'll be seeing some new stuff on D and that we'll be prepared.

    I'm just hoping we can minimize mistakes this Sunday against a great team. He need this win......
    and we'll beat the Jets if we play them again-GUARANTEED!
  8. Rob0729

    Rob0729 Supporter Supporter

    #12 Jersey

    I sure hope the Pats can shure up their defense. It has been a long. long time since a team won a Super Bowl without a very solid defense (at least come playoff time). Even the 2006 Colts' defense became fairly dominant during the playoffs after sucking for the entire regular season.

    The old saying that defenses win championships isn't just a saying.
  9. JSn

    JSn Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    How did they improve?
  10. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks Supporter Supporter

    We have historically improved heading into the stretch. That's the hallmark of a BB team. They coach and scheme better as their tapes of teams pile up and the players get better and work harder as the game reps pile up. Some years it isn't enough as injuries or fatigue mount. You need look no farther than the team that beat us last February or the one that won in 2006 and 2005 for evidence that improved scheme and act of will can combine to vastly improve any teams performance heading into the second season...
  11. Sicilian

    Sicilian Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Some say it was because they got back Bob Sanders. I think they played some below average offenses in the playoffs. The only good offensive team they played was the Pats and we were able to score on them. Other than that, who was it? Jacksonville, Baltimore, and Chicago (the Grossman year).

    They didn't so much improve as they got a bit of swagger from playing sub-par offenses.
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2008

    PATSYLICIOUS Pro Bowl Player

    #12 Jersey

    I didn't pay a whole lot of attention to the Colts defense that year, but I know they added Booger Mcfarland late that year. Again, not sure how much he influenced the improvement but sure looks like he had an impact. Plus Sanders missed much of the first half of the season.
  13. JSn

    JSn Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Found some good stuff from Troy Brown on the Defense in the "Felcher" mailbag. Hm.


    PATSYLICIOUS Pro Bowl Player

    #12 Jersey

    They went against Herm Edwards in the first round, which goes along with your point. They lucked out bigtime not having to face SD that year and the NFC was trash.
  15. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks Supporter Supporter

    In that case getting Sanders back was huge but Dungy also did a heck of a job coaching up his youngsters over the course of a season. He also had the good furtune of us not getting Rodney back in time from a late season injury, facing a team with Reche Caldwell as it's #1 in the AFCC and then matching up against a seriously dysfunctional offense in Chicago. There is often a little luck of the draw involved.
  16. Rob0729

    Rob0729 Supporter Supporter

    #12 Jersey

    They shutdown KC and Baltimore two weeks in a row and then shut down the Bears in the Super Bowl. I hate the Colts as much as anyone, but you gotta give them credit. They held the Chiefs to 8 points after everone thought that Larry Johnson would run all over them. They held the Ravens to 6 points the next week which was key since they couldn't do anything on offense except score field goals. They held the Bears to 10 offensive points in the Super Bowl. The defense only faultered in the Pats game giving up 27 offensive points. Unfortunately, the Pats defense played even worse in the second half.

    The Colts improved because they shured up their run defense which was one of the world in league history in the regular season.
  17. Rob0729

    Rob0729 Supporter Supporter

    #12 Jersey

    They did totally shut down the Chiefs with Larry Johnson (although I think Herm gave up on the run too quickly) and the Ravens. They held both teams to single digits in scoring. Let's give the Colts a little credit. Even against a bad offense, holding them to less than 10 points is pretty good.
  18. stinkypete

    stinkypete In the Starting Line-Up

    #24 Jersey

    What nobody has mentioned is the potential return of Adalius Thomas bolstering the pass rush. The defense began tanking as soon as he went down with his injury. He was having a monster year before that injury, and if he can return somewhat to form we should see increased pressure on the quarterback.

    The 2005 defense came together in a big way late in the season, improving from a bottom 5 unit to a top 5 unit over the month of December. Some of that was the return of Bruschi, some of that was the emergence of JAG or young defensive backs within the system. Our defensive backs have looked awful thus far, but I haven't lost faith that Wilhite and Lewis Sanders can at least help settle things down if they can stay healthy for the rest of the season.
  19. BelizePats

    BelizePats Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    From a defensive standpoint the results have been mixed at best. I have been waiting on some type of scheme change for a while now but it has not materialized and I find this unwillingness to adjust, troubling. When Pees decided to pressure Farve in the Jets game, the results were immediate and highly effective. Then they stopped and Farve was able to sustain an 8 minute drive towards the end of the game. Other than this 1 scenario I have a hard time thinking of another situation where a significant ingame adjustment was made?
    What I do know is that our secondary, as it is currently constituted, cannot succeed playing 8-10 yards off the line. This scenario has been consistently exploited by our opponents offensive coordinators. Particularly on third and long!!!!
    Our D line has demonstrated that they cannot get sustained pressure on the QB. When you combine this with little to no blitzing and the secondary giving large cushions to the receivers on third and long, you have the answer as to why our 3rd down D has been so poor. I think our defensive coaches have been a part of the problem by not being willing to adjust. For whatever reason, Pees seems very slow to make changes to the game plan during the game. The defensive coaching philosophy seems to be very static and this has surprised me this year as much as Cassels success on offense. And I can't help but wonder what exactly has Dom Capers role been this year?
    It is perplexing to say the least!!!
    I think that the D can improve.
  20. BionicPatriot

    BionicPatriot In the Starting Line-Up

    Troy Brown said it best.

    This secondary is not so bad we can't afford to send anyone else. Like Brown said sending 3 isn't going to stop anybody. You know why he knows? Because back in his days when guys like McGinest and Vrabel would get after you, you made mistakes. Hell Troy Brown can tell you this by playing behind them!

    Bill deserves heat on this one. It's no mystery that when we pressure Favre we dominated them that quarter. When we didn't, he killed us. Even in the Colts game. Peyton Manning was able to get 18 points in just 25 minutes, this defense never came close to touching him all night. Bottomline is we need to scheme for more blitzing, and ocne we do that this D will go where ever it goes. Maybe it's only a top 15 unit, but that's better than this unit currently. Any improvement is good improvement, and I hope facing a team that like getting their QB hit a lot in Pittsburgh we unleash some of this.
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