We Are TWO Players Away - Overpay In Trades For QB and WR.

[203Pat]

Those are Pro Bowl players! What are we even discussing here? Those aren't fringe players.

Barmore, in 2 of the games, completely destroyed O-lines, he was a one man wrecking crew versus Philly and the Jets.

I'm not going to get worked up on holds that happen every play especially when they're not egregious. Nor is a false start a huge thing when the player in question has a long history of not doing it. You're nitpicking.

Brandon Graham has made 1 pro bowl in his career. Josh Sweat has made one pro bowl in his career. Justin Houston hasn't made a pro bowl in 8 years and is now a situational pass rusher. Yannick Ngakoue has made one pro bowl in his career. Leonard Floyd has made zero pro bowls in his career. These guys are all borderline pro bowl players at their peak. That is what Uche is. Who called Uche a fringe player? He is a solid rotational/situational pass rusher who is comparable to all the guys mentioned above. He isn't great but he isn't bad. You acted like it was so special we had a guy who had 10 sacks one season. Lots of teams have those types of guys.

Yes 10 yard penalties on an offense that punts almost 80% of its drives are no big deal. Not like those are drive killers or anything. Do you even watch the NFL? I don't know what we are even doing here.

 

[BTTA]

At the moment, I have little interest in 2024. There seems to be little interest in 2023, other than hoping for a high draft choice and few of us homers.

I guess that we need a poll on who wants to just give up on this year and who wants to trade for players that might put us in contention to have 7-10 wins.

LET'S BE MORE CLEAR
Are you really saying that a NFL quality starting RT isn't available for a 1st round draft choice? What about a WR? What about a backup QB? If you think that players COULD be available, then the question IS NOT whether we can compete, but rather, on whether we are willing to pay the price.

Isn't the question really about "overpaying" and having no guarantee of success (as if there is ever a guarantee on a trade).

Mg, appreciate the effort at finding a path forward. I think, with the injuries on defense, the horse has left the barn on '23. I hope/wish I'm wrong.

 

[SammyBlueCat]

 

[Boomer B]

Pats o-line gave up a pressure on every 2nd snap against Dallas

Pats o-line is ranked 32 in pass protection in the NFL

You can’t come on here and seriously try to say we have a good line.

 

[h0c2000]

Patriots cap spend rank by QB position:
2019 14
2020 31
2021 30
2022 28
2023 30

This tells me all I need to know about how Bill values the QB position. He doesn't.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

Pats o-line gave up a pressure on every 2nd snap against Dallas

Pats o-line is ranked 32 in pass protection in the NFL

You can’t come on here and seriously try to say we have a good line.

i remember some posters saying this all the time in preseason "our o-line will be very good"...i don't need to say names, you guys will know

 

[upstater1]

Brandon Graham has made 1 pro bowl in his career. Josh Sweat has made one pro bowl in his career. Justin Houston hasn't made a pro bowl in 8 years and is now a situational pass rusher. Yannick Ngakoue has made one pro bowl in his career. Leonard Floyd has made zero pro bowls in his career. These guys are all borderline pro bowl players at their peak. That is what Uche is. Who called Uche a fringe player? He is a solid rotational/situational pass rusher who is comparable to all the guys mentioned above. He isn't great but he isn't bad. You acted like it was so special we had a guy who had 10 sacks one season. Lots of teams have those types of guys.

Yes 10 yard penalties on an offense that punts almost 80% of its drives are no big deal. Not like those are drive killers or anything. Do you even watch the NFL? I don't know what we are even doing here.

I listed Uche as a good player to have on your team. Guys that get 10+ sacks aren't on every single roster. Some of the players you're downgrading above are very long in the tooth, so what would you expect. Houston isn't what he used to be, apparently. OK... you're the one who listed him, not me.

I asked you for a list and you gave me a list of Pro Bowlers. Oh, except for Floyd, a guy averaging 10 sacks a year and who is well on his way to a 4th season averaging the same.

 

[upstater1]

Patriots cap spend rank by QB position:
2019 14
2020 31
2021 30
2022 28
2023 30

This tells me all I need to know about how Bill values the QB position. He doesn't.

This should be the absurdity thread now, from why didn't we trade for WRs who didn't want to come here and who got the top WR contracts from the teams they didn't want to go to, to should've traded for Old Man Stafford when the team was in the middle of rebuilding, after just letting BRADY! leave, to now criticism of how much Mac jones is getting paid when his salary is locked and slotted by the draft process!!!

The absurdity of the Belichick haters is well beyond what I would have imagined.

 

[203Pat]

I listed Uche as a good player to have on your team. Guys that get 10+ sacks aren't on every single roster. Some of the players you're downgrading above are very long in the tooth, so what would you expect. Houston isn't what he used to be, apparently. OK... you're the one who listed him, not me.

I asked you for a list and you gave me a list of Pro Bowlers. Oh, except for Floyd, a guy averaging 10 sacks a year and who is well on his way to a 4th season averaging the same.

The point is lots of teams have pass rushers who are in the ballpark of 10 sacks. Uche isn't some unique player we have that no one else does. Lots of teams have guys that pin their ears back on third down and go after the QB. That is basically what Uche has shown to be and he's fine in that role but I wouldn't say he's a guy we are going to build around.

 

[RIpats88]

I would go WR and OL first. But OL is def #1.

If Mac still looks bad then you can bring in a journeyman. Or even just draft a QB

Not sure another QB makes this team look much better at all. The OL can't run or pass block and the receivers have no separation.

Greg bedard was on yesterday. And he said even as a Mac doubter he's not sure what any QB can do with this situation.

He thinks the poor OL and receivers is making Mac feel like he "needs" to make a play. So he's trying to do stuff he's not physically capable of.

Whereas if you had an OL that could pass block and could get the run game going Mac can play to his steengths.

I mean bill won in 2016 with Jimmy G and Brissett....BUT that was a Superbowl winning roster. He won with Matt Cassell...BUT that was a roster that went 16-0 the year before

So roster talent does matter.

 

[upstater1]

The point is lots of teams have pass rushers who are in the ballpark of 10 sacks. Uche isn't some unique player we have that no one else does. Lots of teams have guys that pin their ears back on third down and go after the QB. That is basically what Uche has shown to be and he's fine in that role but I wouldn't say he's a guy we are going to build around.

A. I was listing good players the Patriots have drafted.
B. Most of the guys who had 10+ sacks last year are considered the best DLs in the entire league.

There are not that many of these guys. Not at all.

 

[mgteich]

.

So roster talent does matter.

So, Jackson is really an upgrade over Wade?

 

[203Pat]

A. I was listing good players the Patriots have drafted.
B. Most of the guys who had 10+ sacks last year are considered the best DLs in the entire league.

There are not that many of these guys. Not at all.

None of those guys I mentioned are considered the best in the league and they all had 10+ sacks last year. Besides I don’t think Bill is going to re-sign Uche anyways.

 

[Thelonious]

As I said I understand why you take the position you do.
You set the greatest of all time in your profession? I doubt it.
And it took “honesty and courage” for you to admit you couldn’t get the job done any more, so you feel better about yourself by taking shots at Belechick.

Go **** yourself.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Tom Curran said yesterday that Strange's knee injury apparently needs surgery but he's trying to play through it. So it makes sense to take that into consideration when it comes to evaluating him. That, and their ground game has been significantly better when he's been out there, especially as it relates to Stevenson.

Maybe if we hadn't spent a 1st round pick on a guard in 2022 and actually addressed the offensive tackle position in the 2023 draft class we wouldn't be in this crappy situation with regards to the offensive line. Or maybe if BB had used some of that 5th highest cap space in the NFL for a good free agent tackle things would be different. But they're not.

All I can say is I was never excited about the Strange pick as you can always find decent guards in the middle rounds but this just seems to be BB's pattern recently. He has just not been very good in the draft. Wynn was a 1st round pick in 2018 but was for the most part disappointing and an utter joke in his 5th year with the Patriots. Isn't it time that Kraft finally took the GM duties away from BB?

At this point unless there's some hidden gem left in free agency, or recently waived, which is doubtful, trade appears to be the only way to shore up the lackluster OL for this seaon.

 

[Ring 6]

Go **** yourself.

Classy response.

 

[mgteich]

A bit more health and the OL will be OK, but OK isn't enough with Jones as our QB.

So, we need help on OL, WR and/or QB.

If there is a bit of health on Defense, I think the focus is almost totally on the Offense. Ja Jones coming back is enough to make us at least top 10 defense again.

 

[upstater1]

None of those guys I mentioned are considered the best in the league and they all had 10+ sacks last year. Besides I don’t think Bill is going to re-sign Uche anyways.

At one point, some of those guys were considered among the best. Houston in particular. There are only 10-15 who get 10+ sacks every year. To act like this a common thing is absurd. Most NFL teams did not have a guy like that last year.

 

[upstater1]

Maybe if we hadn't spent a 1st round pick on a guard in 2022 and actually addressed the offensive tackle position in the 2023 draft class we wouldn't be in this crappy situation with regards to the offensive line. Or maybe if BB had used some of that 5th highest cap space in the NFL for a good free agent tackle things would be different. But they're not.

The 2 biggest tackles in FAs this year have been colossal flops hated by their new teams (Brown and McGlinchey). Worse, teams are on the hook for $87m for those signings.

Who are the tackles he should've signed?

I didn't like the Strange pick either, but in retrospect, that was a poor draft. All the guys we were looking at otherwise haven't done well (Kaiir Elam, Dax Hill, Devin Lloyd). The first 6 WRs taken in the draft last year look like busts, especially Treylon Burks.

As for this year's draft, which tackle would you have taken and at what point in the draft? Would you have taken Broderick Jones over Gonzalez? Jones couldn't crack the Steelers starting lineup.

Look at this redraft done after the season: Redrafting 2022 NFL Draft: Brock Purdy goes in middle of Round 1, Sauce Gardner taken No. 1 overall

You not only see Jack Jones there as a 1st round value, but a lot of players made the top 32 from the later rounds. The important thing is to come up with good players, much more important than focusing on the busts.

 

[VectorPrime]

Wrong. We’re actually three players away from being a great team. Those players being 2014 Tom Brady, 1990 Jerry Rice, and 2011 Joe Thomas.