Caldwell or Gaffney - Who would you rather have?

[RayClay]

Funny, I said the exact opposite thing in my previous post. When Gaffney runs downfield, he looks discombobulated. A number of times Brady went long to him and he looked completely inept in going up for the ball. Off his wrong foot, bad timing, etc. Whereas Caldwell seemed to have a sense of his body and the sideline on the deep throws.

Obviously I didn't see what you did but Gaffney had no training camp and we were pushing gabriel for the #1 receiver spot for a while.

Could have been a miscommunication. People keep talking like Gaffney had a bad season when he was hardly used due to lack of practice time until the last 2-4 games.

Does someone remember differently?

 

[RayClay]

He wasn't even active until 10/22 and I don't recall him dropping passes so the guy was trying to learn on the fly and was hardly even in games.

I don't know what people expected him to do with 5-10 minutes playing time. that's what I remember, he was hardly in games until the very end of the season.

Does someone remember differently?

 

[Born_a_Patriot]

Caldwell.....

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

Moss does not run routes well at all. I know people choked up Tom Walsh's comments in Borges' piece as sour grapes, but he did lay out specific examples where he had difficulty picking up new, more complicated routes.

Moss doesn't only run fly patterns, but he has never been able to run more complicated routes. Maybe I shouldn't have include curl routes in my more complicated routes, but he has always played in simple, vertical offenses where he was asked to use his straightline speed, jumping ability, and strength to fight for the ball.

Moss may not be Bethel or Tony Simmons, but he isn't Deion Branch either. He just a different type of receiver than typically fits into our offense. Just like there are LBs who fit in better in a 3-4 than others, some WRs fit into different offensive schemes than others.

Moss is not a perfect fit for the type offense we have run in recent years. We will revise it a bit to accomodate him, but there are certain offensive schemes that we will run that he will never fit into and other WRs will be needed to take up the slack.

Here's the ideas behind exploitation in this new offense:

Moss is the centerpiece of this new scheme. No, we are not going "bombs away" from the get-go. BB still likes to play the possession game, and keep his defense off the field as much as he can. Rather, the idea behind exploitation is we always have the capability to present this threat, and the threat is now ever-present, always valid, ever palpable. The point is, we can now always do this. We can always threaten it at the time(s) of our choosing. If the defense shows a predilection to cheat is certain circumstances, those circumstances then belong to us.

It will be an uncommon circumstance when both Moss and Stallworth are lined up on the same play. Except for certain circumstances, what would the purpose be? No, the forte of this WR corps, and by extension the offense itself, becomes the possibility to operate in waves, with no (or little) loss of efficiency or production. The ideas becomes literally to wear down the opposing defenses, not just simply overpowering them (I don't see that happening a lot), but by long possessions, confusing lineups, play-calling designed to at once succeed and demoralize, and the ever-present threat of the long one that will equalize things very quickly. With this offense we see the possibility (perhaps more than once in a game) of hesitancy...on defense, both upstairs and on the field.

Lots of people have mentioned Brady not having anything like this in his career. Likewise, neither has Coach.

You think this off season is horrendously long? Imagine how he feels about it!

 

[Grizzafted]

I'm curious to see what you would have said if Gaffney didn't do what he did against the Jets.

But he did. And out of the blue, he's miraculously a "gem," no question what so ever!

Your credibility couldn't be lower.

Jesus, so sensitive.

The guy is going to be cheap as hell, and I think he'll be a good possession reciever in our offense. He looked crisp in the Jets and SD games. I think he's the kind of guy who could get on a good page with Brady.

And actually I liked the signing the moment I heard about it. He had decent numbers in Houston, and I think his style of play meshes well with our offense. Quick, with good hands and a good sense of the field. I certainly don't think he's a 1 guy, or even a 2, but at 4 or 5 I do think he's a gem.

 

[JaredOfNazareth]

Caldwell is going to be the #2 guy when Stalworth pulls another hammy. J/K

Really the guy who WILL most likey get cut is Washington. He's a bad route runner, not a deep threat etc. etc. Like a poor mans Doug Gabriel.

Caldwell over Gaffney.

I can't get enough of this Welker love fest in here. LOL! Like he is on the field more than Caldwell. Quick Question. Who was better last season Marty Booker or Reche Caldwell? Whoever said Caldwell is right.

Moss
Stalworth
Caldwell
Welker
Whoever
Whoever

Troy Brown may even make it.

 

[satz]

what no one is talking about is the coverage they faced.
Cadwell always got the safety and #1 corner and Gaffney the # 3 corner.Against the jets he got the # 3 guy who was out for a hammy the last week. He got first 3 throws by brady each for 10 yrd as this guy was 10 yards from him.Justin miller came him and kinda slowed him down but still he was the # 3 and below corner.

Against SD same thing the #2 and #3 guys were on him most of the game as watson and cadwell got the top 2 guys with safety hanging their side.

I think its mad to judge them when they were not facing the coverage and quality of coverage .

in the reg season under #1 CB teams cadwell produced vs gaffney played #3 corner /nickels to make a few more yards than cadwell in playoff.How can you even prefer gaffney .Beats me.

 

[upstater1]

He wasn't even active until 10/22 and I don't recall him dropping passes so the guy was trying to learn on the fly and was hardly even in games.

I don't know what people expected him to do with 5-10 minutes playing time. that's what I remember, he was hardly in games until the very end of the season.

Does someone remember differently?

I very definitel remember differently. They were sending Gaffney on fly patterns for the second half of the season. Maybe they didn't do it often. He was definitely playing the Andre Davis role for a while there. Brady threw some beautiful throws, but was criticized for not having the touch for long passes. I put the blame squarely on Gaffney. I distinctly recall Gaffney blowing three or four beautiful long throws over a span of about 5 or 6 games. I sarted watching for it after the first or second time he looked inept in adjusting his body to the ball.

 

[JoeSixPat]

This was relevant before all our WR signings... now the debate is all about who is fighting for the spots 4-6 on the roster.

 

[RayClay]

I very definitel remember differently. They were sending Gaffney on fly patterns for the second half of the season. Maybe they didn't do it often. He was definitely playing the Andre Davis role for a while there. Brady threw some beautiful throws, but was criticized for not having the touch for long passes. I put the blame squarely on Gaffney. I distinctly recall Gaffney blowing three or four beautiful long throws over a span of about 5 or 6 games. I sarted watching for it after the first or second time he looked inept in adjusting his body to the ball.

Same with Chad Jackson. Long passes take timing and that comes with playing time.

I can't imagine a player having to be worked in during a playoff run doing much better when it counted, but I guess that's just me.

 

[tombonneau]

what no one is talking about is the coverage they faced.
Cadwell always got the safety and #1 corner and Gaffney the # 3 corner.Against the jets he got the # 3 guy who was out for a hammy the last week. He got first 3 throws by brady each for 10 yrd as this guy was 10 yards from him.Justin miller came him and kinda slowed him down but still he was the # 3 and below corner.

Against SD same thing the #2 and #3 guys were on him most of the game as watson and cadwell got the top 2 guys with safety hanging their side.

I think its mad to judge them when they were not facing the coverage and quality of coverage .

in the reg season under #1 CB teams cadwell produced vs gaffney played #3 corner /nickels to make a few more yards than cadwell in playoff.How can you even prefer gaffney .Beats me.

That's the same coverage Gaffney will draw next season, so it's fine by me.

But I'm still just amazed at how many Pats fans praise the mediocrity of Caldwell's 2006 season. I guess I'm just not as impressed with an average WR collecting stats by default.

 

[JackBauer]

Count me as one who is incredulous anyone could pick Gaffney over Caldwell. Absolutely mind-boggling.

And, Tom, if you consider that Caldwell is nothing more than a #3 at best, his 2006 season was superb, not mediocre. Try and wrap your head around that concept.

 

[stcjones]

Gaffney didn't have all TC, preseason, and the early part of the regular season to get used to the offense. And he wasn't thrown into the #1 WR role either. He stepped up big time in the playoffs, while Caldwell choked when it counted most.

AMEN....great post

 

[JackBauer]

AMEN....great post

Are you serious?

 

[DaBruinz]

Caldwell definitely outplayed him in training camp, I'll give you that. Gaffney was invisible.

Gaffney was non-existent for many of the 11 games that he played in during the regular season. Why do you and others pretend like he was a factor then.

Gaffney had 2 good games the entire year. And they happened to be in the play-offs against the Jets and Chargers. But to discount Caldwell during that time is pretty ridiculous.

 

[DaBruinz]

Do you not see the problem here? If it was a half decent comparison then Gaffney would have had to have left the Pats during this offseason and subsequently gone to a mediocre team with a 38 year old starting QB. Obviously the Pats value Gaffney differently than how they evaluated Wiggins's services some five years ago.

I understood that before you started with your falsehoods about Wiggins. YOU were the one who claimed Wiggins didn't get a chance claiming he made the decision to move on when it was the Pats who made the decision. NOW, you are back-pedaling to try and turn it into your favor.

 

[stcjones]

Yeah let's blame Brady instead.

I'll take Gaffney's one superb TD grab over Caldwell's two drops. In the one playoff game Caldwell stepped up for, against SD, Gaffney still outperformed him...

Against SD...

Gaffney - 10 catches, 103 yards, 1 TD
Caldwell - 7 catches, 80 yards, 1 TD

Again great post....at least Gaffney HAD the one TD catch against Indy, while Reche was busy pooping his drawers.......and OUTPERFORMED him in the SD game as well.......No offense to Caldwell,.....he played way OVER his ability last year and did a good job for us during the regular season.....he just didn't CONSISTENTLY do enough for us (and really gagged when it counted most) during the clutch moments........I don't see Reche making this team at this point......one man's opinion

 

[JackBauer]

Again great post....at least Gaffney HAD the one TD catch against Indy, while Reche was busy pooping his drawers.......and OUTPERFORMED him in the SD game as well.......No offense to Caldwell,.....he played way OVER his ability last year and did a good job for us during the regular season.....he just didn't CONSISTENTLY do enough for us (and really gagged when it counted most) during the clutch moments........I don't see Reche making this team at this point......one man's opinion

Caldwell didn't consistently do enough for the Pats, but Gaffney did?

I can come to no other conclusion than you don't understand the definition of consistency.

 

[DaBruinz]

No, I honestly have no idea what Wiggins has to do with it. He had a decent game in the Snow Bowl due to inclement conditions. That's hardly the same as a WR who caught on mid-season hitting his stride in prime time and having a huge playoff run.

If you honestly feel comfortable with Brady throwing to Caldwell in the clutch after that abortion of a game in Indy, be my guest.

Fool me once ......

Gaffney signed with the Pats during week 6 of 17. I guess you could call that "mid-season". Also, Gaffney had only 2 good games. The Play-offs against the Chargers and Jets.

And, again, I point out to EVERYONE, that if Gaffney was SO DAMN GOOD, why was it that the Pats weren't trying to go to him late with the game on the line? Why were they going to WATSON and CALDWELL?

 

[tombonneau]

Count me as one who is incredulous anyone could pick Gaffney over Caldwell. Absolutely mind-boggling.

And, Tom, if you consider that Caldwell is nothing more than a #3 at best, his 2006 season was superb, not mediocre. Try and wrap your head around that concept.

I disagree. I think Caldwell is of the talent that he can be an average #2 WR. Same as Gaffney. So the stats he put up do not impress me. They are the same stats that I think any #2 WR could put up if they became the primary WR of a good offense.

He's be a fine #2 WR for the Texans or Browns or Titans or Niners or any other marginal NFL team that isn't playing in big time games.

However, on the NE Patriots, a team that has many big games a year, and several playoff games, I'd rather not have the guy who has proven on the biggest stage to be a non-gamer.

All things being equal, Gaffney and Caldwell both look about the same in camp, good but not great, and it's coming down to one of them, if you don't think that Caldwell's performance in the AFCC is going to factor in to the decision-making process, you are naive.

BB already has a proven track record of holding players accountable for one single play. There is the Gabriel fumble (yes, I know, there was probably more to it than that) and then there was the time he flat out cut a STer for essentially missing a tackle.

I also clearly recall an interview with him, I'm sure he's said it a ton, that a lot of time football comes down to 6-7 plays a game, and whether or not you win those single invidual plays can be the difference between winning and losing. You could have won the other 100 plays, but if you lose those other 7, you lose the game.

Just look at the Denver playoff game, classic example.

To that end, I think BB wants big time players who will win those plays. Caldwell made one of those plays in SD. He didn't make two of them in Indy. IMO, that factors into the decision-making process.