Caldwell or Gaffney - Who would you rather have?

[RayClay]

Gaffney runs very smoothly while Caldwell is choppy.

Big advantage for a receiver. I think they really lucked out with Gaffney.

 

[Seymour93]

To say that they were two of the biggest passes of his life is a HUGE exageration.

Are you kidding? Caldwell started 14 games in 4 years for the Chargers. That team hasn't gone deep in the playoffs since the mid 90's. The AFCCG was the biggest game of his life and he blew it.

Gaffney was signed during the bye week. He was on the roster for 11 weeks, did great for 2 and then was mediocre for the 3rd play-off game.

Gaffney had a little over two months to become an established WR on this team. Caldwell, meanwhile, signed in March... meaning he had six months to work with Brady and the offense before the season started in September.

BTW, why is it that you are using Caldwell being placed in the #1 receiver role by default as something to hold AGAINST Caldwell. If anything, that should give him the benefit of the doubt. Because he was never brought in to be the #1 receiver. He was brought in to be the #2 behind Branch.

What was Caldwell's competition? Troy Brown, Doug Gabriel, Chad Jackson, Bam Childress, and Jonathan Smith. Caldwell wins by default.

 

[RayClay]

Really? All I said was that Caldwell stepped up. Since you forgot, without Caldwell's late grab, we lose that San Diego game.



No, actually, what matters most is consistency. Gaffney was non-existent for much of the regular season and had 2 nice games where we also got some good running out of Dillon and Maroney against the Jets and where Faulk was a factor against the Bolts.

When did Gaffney step up against the Colts later in the game? Why wasn't HE the one Brady was going to on the last play of the game? You don't think that if he had won so much confidence from Brady, that he'd be the one Brady was going to? Not Watson.

Caldwell definitely outplayed him in training camp, I'll give you that. Gaffney was invisible.

 

[Rob0729]

I still think it is amazing that some fans hate Caldwell based solely on two dropped balls. Brady made stupid critical mistakes in each of our last two playoff losses (the interception pass to Bailey and then the one to Marlin Jackson) yet he gets absolutely no backlash, but his mistake was costlier than either of Caldwell's dropped passes. Troy Brown made a stupid and costly pass interference penalty and no one calls him out for it. Heath Evans stupidly was the 12th man in the huddle and no one mentions him. Both Vrabel and Bruschi gave up big plays to Dallas Clark and Seymour had a horrible game and they don't get blamed. Dillon gets spent by pretty much halftime so we have absolutely no running game in the second half because Faulk and Maroney are injured and no one blames him. Maroney muffs a hand off just outside the goalline and no one talks about his choke.

There were a lot of Patriots players who "choked" in the AFC Championship game. I can think of at least a half dozen bonehead moves or "choke" type moves that were just as bad as either of Caldwell's dropped balls. We scored at TD on the next play on one of Caldwell's dropped ball. Why is that drop worse than Maroney muffing the snap where we were lucky enough that Mankins could recover it?

 

[PatsMyBoyz!]

In the past, the Pats' philosophy of spreading the ball around was largely a consequence of necessity. They didn't have much in the way of true game breakers, so the offense was designed to spread the largess, spread the risk, so as to keep opposing defenses from keying one one or two players, and whoever they might have been in the lineup, they were most assuredly mortal.

This year's WR corps promises to be different, giving Brady weapons he has never had before. The name of the game will be exploitation. When you've got the horses, you ride them.

I have no idea, really, whether Caldwell or Gaffney stays, or if indeed either one does, but one thing is readily obvious - this season will feature a new and improved high octane game plan. When you have a Lamborghini ready to go, you don't want to pick up your date in a Volkswagen Rabbit.

Exactly. Barring injury,I don't see either one playing any signifigant role so which one stays or goes (if indeed that's the case),isn't worth most of the press it gets. Last year they were basically the only game in town so anything they did or didn't do became critical. This year I can't say I have any intense preference regarding which one should stay or go,though ideally I'd like to keep both around and see which one sticks better,both for back up and going forward into 08.
I think they both have value,it's just that their roles have been signifigantly reduced.And with an improved defense,the days of blowing a 21-3 lead should be over and a dropped pass or 2 won't seal the Pats fate again.

 

[Rob0729]

I think Caldwell's and/or Gaffney's roles will be reduced, but I think people are seriously underestimating what their roles will be in this offense. I seriously doubt we will move to a primarily vertical offense. It doesn't play to Brady's strengths. That means there will be times when Moss and/or Stallworth will have reduced roles in the offense. There is no guarantees both will be fulltime starters. We will have a lot of situations where we will need two or three possession type receivers on the field and that means either Caldwell or Gaffney or both could get a lionshare of the playing time in an individual game or even start.

Brady is a surgeon, not a gunslinger. That means he will work better against a lot of defense with guys who can go over the middle and run more complicated routes. Neither are Moss' or Stallworth's forte.

 

[tombonneau]

I think Caldwell's and/or Gaffney's roles will be reduced, but I think people are seriously underestimating what their roles will be in this offense. I seriously doubt we will move to a primarily vertical offense. It doesn't play to Brady's strengths. That means there will be times when Moss and/or Stallworth will have reduced roles in the offense. There is no guarantees both will be fulltime starters. We will have a lot of situations where we will need two or three possession type receivers on the field and that means either Caldwell or Gaffney or both could get a lionshare of the playing time in an individual game or even start.

Brady is a surgeon, not a gunslinger. That means he will work better against a lot of defense with guys who can go over the middle and run more complicated routes. Neither are Moss' or Stallworth's forte.

I posted stats earlier of what WR4 #s look like for the top passing teams in the league, as well as for NE. The upside of our WR4 is about 25 catches, or roughly 1.5 game.

I really don't see that deviating much barring a major injury.

As far as Caldwell or Gaffney starting with a healthy Moss, Stallworth, and Welker, I can't imagine a game plan that would call for that.

If a team stinks at covering the middle of the field, I'm pretty sure BB would opt to have Moss or Stallworth run an inside slant over Caldwell or Gaffney.

Just bc they are fast vertical threats doesn't mean they can't run a slant. They are first round talented NFL WRs. We aren't talking about Bethel Johnson here.

 

[jbb9s]

Can someone explain to me how Caldwell gets beat out by Gaffney for a roster spot? What has Gaffney ever done for the duration of his entire career with the exception of 3 playoff games ? (albeit great games). His best year in receptions is 55 (with a 8.9 YPC avg - ugly) and only went over 500 yds in a season once since '02.

Caldwell was our #1 last year and dropped one lousy pass that Brady should have quick snapped and gotten to him 5 seconds earlier. I really believe that drop (AFCCG of course) is causing people to overlook his serviceable career and a projected solid #4 for cheap money who is already in sync with the system. What about the bomb he caught one on one with Jammer that iced the second biggest upset win in this dynasty? He isn't good at running 40 yd flags with Moss or Stallworth but thats the point - its not needed of him. Whats needed of him is to catch 12 yards passes and move the chains when Stallworth's hammy gets strained in week 4. Sorry for the rant - just think the fans are leaving a serviceable guy high and dry.

 

[PatsMyBoyz!]

I still think it is amazing that some fans hate Caldwell based solely on two dropped balls. Brady made stupid critical mistakes in each of our last two playoff losses (the interception pass to Bailey and then the one to Marlin Jackson) yet he gets absolutely no backlash, but his mistake was costlier than either of Caldwell's dropped passes. Troy Brown made a stupid and costly pass interference penalty and no one calls him out for it. Heath Evans stupidly was the 12th man in the huddle and no one mentions him. Both Vrabel and Bruschi gave up big plays to Dallas Clark and Seymour had a horrible game and they don't get blamed. Dillon gets spent by pretty much halftime so we have absolutely no running game in the second half because Faulk and Maroney are injured and no one blames him. Maroney muffs a hand off just outside the goalline and no one talks about his choke.

There were a lot of Patriots players who "choked" in the AFC Championship game. I can think of at least a half dozen bonehead moves or "choke" type moves that were just as bad as either of Caldwell's dropped balls. We scored at TD on the next play on one of Caldwell's dropped ball. Why is that drop worse than Maroney muffing the snap where we were lucky enough that Mankins could recover it?

Plenty of blame to go around that night,no doubt about it. Caldwell's drops/a late game INT wouldn't have made that vast a difference had all other phases of the game been 100% functional. A lot of factors contributed to that loss besides Caldwell. He was simply a good receiver who got placed into an elite role,a role for which he maybe wasn't completely suited,and the rest of the team just didn't play well enough to compensate for it that night.

 

[zippo59]

Tough choice, but I would probably go with Caldwell. I love what Gaffney did in the playoffs but Caldwell was the more consistent performer for the year. But if we are only keeping one, they will have to battle it out in camp.

 

[Rob0729]

I posted stats earlier of what WR4 #s look like for the top passing teams in the league, as well as for NE. The upside of our WR4 is about 25 catches, or roughly 1.5 game.

I really don't see that deviating much barring a major injury.

As far as Caldwell or Gaffney starting with a healthy Moss, Stallworth, and Welker, I can't imagine a game plan that would call for that.

If a team stinks at covering the middle of the field, I'm pretty sure BB would opt to have Moss or Stallworth run an inside slant over Caldwell or Gaffney.

Just bc they are fast vertical threats doesn't mean they can't run a slant. They are first round talented NFL WRs. We aren't talking about Bethel Johnson here.

Why would you trust Moss more than Gaffney or Caldwell on the inside slants? Moss doesn't run over the middle that much and doesn't have the greatest success when he does. Moss is far more effective as an outside runner. Why would run him over players who are better at inside running than he is?

Moss is pretty much a one trick pony. Prior to 2004. He was amazing at that one trick and hopefully he is again, but you cannot trust that after being in the league for nearly 10 years that he is sudden;y going to be something he hasn't been his entire career. He might be able to do it in limited situations, but to expect him to be a guy who is going to run a slant route over the middle or even more complicated curl, crossing, and cutback routes overnight is expecting far too much.

There are a lot of things that we like to do in this offense that neither Moss nor Stallworth can or at least have done in the past. We will need some diversity in this offense. I can see either Gaffney or Caldwell potentially starting when we face a secondary like the Tampa 2 where they are designed to not give up the big play, but can give up a lot of 4-7 yard passes during the game.

 

[upstater1]

Gaffney runs very smoothly while Caldwell is choppy.

Big advantage for a receiver. I think they really lucked out with Gaffney.

Funny, I said the exact opposite thing in my previous post. When Gaffney runs downfield, he looks discombobulated. A number of times Brady went long to him and he looked completely inept in going up for the ball. Off his wrong foot, bad timing, etc. Whereas Caldwell seemed to have a sense of his body and the sideline on the deep throws.

 

[PatsMyBoyz!]

I think Caldwell's and/or Gaffney's roles will be reduced, but I think people are seriously underestimating what their roles will be in this offense. I seriously doubt we will move to a primarily vertical offense. It doesn't play to Brady's strengths. That means there will be times when Moss and/or Stallworth will have reduced roles in the offense. There is no guarantees both will be fulltime starters. We will have a lot of situations where we will need two or three possession type receivers on the field and that means either Caldwell or Gaffney or both could get a lionshare of the playing time in an individual game or even start.

Brady is a surgeon, not a gunslinger. That means he will work better against a lot of defense with guys who can go over the middle and run more complicated routes. Neither are Moss' or Stallworth's forte.

By reduced I meant they will no longer be the only game in town,and therefore they'll be able to play more to their best abilities, thanks in good part to the addition of Moss and Stallworth. That's why ideally I hope we manage to keep both,at least through this year. They'll contribute heavily to making our offensive attack multi-faceted and balanced once again.

 

[tombonneau]

Why would you trust Moss more than Gaffney or Caldwell on the inside slants? Moss doesn't run over the middle that much and doesn't have the greatest success when he does. Moss is far more effective as an outside runner. Why would run him over players who are better at inside running than he is?

Moss is pretty much a one trick pony. Prior to 2004. He was amazing at that one trick and hopefully he is again, but you cannot trust that after being in the league for nearly 10 years that he is sudden;y going to be something he hasn't been his entire career. He might be able to do it in limited situations, but to expect him to be a guy who is going to run a slant route over the middle or even more complicated curl, crossing, and cutback routes overnight is expecting far too much.

This is nothing specific to you, but for some reason, folks seem to think all Randy Moss can do is run a fly pattern, jump up and catch the ball. Just because he excels at that and that is what makes the highlight reels does nto mean that is his only game.

I mean, are you really suggesting that Randy Moss cannot run a simple curl route? As much as he isn't the brilliant tactician of a route runner as Rice or Harrison (who is?) it's not like he's Bethel Johnson or Tony Simmons either.

And as far as the person who disparaged Gaffney by saying what has he done his previous high was only 53 catches? Caldwell's career high before playing a full 16 games with NE was 28.

 

[Kdo5]

Gaffney didnt do anything too extrordinary in the playoffs. He had lots of catches. He had one great TD catch and a few other very nice catches but most of the balls he caught were balls that I'd expect any decent reciever to catch. Throw most all of those balls to Caldwell and he would have caught them no problem.

I prefer Caldwell based on a 19 game season rather than Gaffney based on a 3 game season. Gaffney must have been sleeping all the way up to the playoffs and finally woke up to actually do something. And Gaffney only had two great games, the Indy game he did nothing aside from one impressive TD.

 

[jbb9s]

And as far as the person who disparaged Gaffney by saying what has he done his previous high was only 53 catches? Caldwell's career high before playing a full 16 games with NE was 28.

Last year's stats don't count when making the case for who is making the team?

 

[tombonneau]

Gaffney didnt do anything too extrordinary in the playoffs. He had lots of catches. He had one great TD catch and a few other very nice catches but most of the balls he caught were balls that I'd expect any decent reciever to catch. Throw most all of those balls to Caldwell and he would have caught them no problem.

I prefer Caldwell based on a 19 game season rather than Gaffney based on a 3 game season. Gaffney must have been sleeping all the way up to the playoffs and finally woke up to actually do something. And Gaffney only had two great games, the Indy game he did nothing aside from one impressive TD.

My argument is the same, only extend it to the whole 16 game season for Caldwell. Any average NFL WR (e.g. Gaffney) would have done the same thing in Caldwell's shoes.

All things being equal, give me the guy who doesn't drop the ball TWICE when completely wide open in the AFCC.

 

[Deus Irae]

My argument is the same, only extend it to the whole 16 game season for Caldwell. Any average NFL WR (e.g. Gaffney) would have done the same thing in Caldwell's shoes.

All things being equal, give me the guy who doesn't drop the ball TWICE when completely wide open in the AFCC.

For those who've never actually played sports before, let me clue you in on something. Sometimes the easiest plays are the ones that get you messed up. Gedman blowing a passed ball on a routine pitch, Buckner missing a slow roller between his legs, things like this gave the Mets the series in '86.

Brady brain-locking instead of quick-snapping and firing the ball out to Caldwell immediately, Brady throwing the ball to the wrong receiver, a player becoming the 12th man in the huddle and another player making a stupid penalty, Caldwell dropping the gift pass. This happens to even the best of players. Sadly, for Caldwell, the worst nightmare then came true. A repeat situation where you have time to play "don't screw it up" over and over in your head and then screw it up because you are overthinking it.

Chris Webber calling a timeout when the team didn't have one. Larry Bird famously missing a certain dunk attempt. These things happen. Or, to put it another way, even Tim Duncan misses layups now and then.

 

[Rob0729]

This is nothing specific to you, but for some reason, folks seem to think all Randy Moss can do is run a fly pattern, jump up and catch the ball. Just because he excels at that and that is what makes the highlight reels does nto mean that is his only game.

I mean, are you really suggesting that Randy Moss cannot run a simple curl route? As much as he isn't the brilliant tactician of a route runner as Rice or Harrison (who is?) it's not like he's Bethel Johnson or Tony Simmons either.

And as far as the person who disparaged Gaffney by saying what has he done his previous high was only 53 catches? Caldwell's career high before playing a full 16 games with NE was 28.

Moss does not run routes well at all. I know people choked up Tom Walsh's comments in Borges' piece as sour grapes, but he did lay out specific examples where he had difficulty picking up new, more complicated routes.

Moss doesn't only run fly patterns, but he has never been able to run more complicated routes. Maybe I shouldn't have include curl routes in my more complicated routes, but he has always played in simple, vertical offenses where he was asked to use his straightline speed, jumping ability, and strength to fight for the ball.

Moss may not be Bethel or Tony Simmons, but he isn't Deion Branch either. He just a different type of receiver than typically fits into our offense. Just like there are LBs who fit in better in a 3-4 than others, some WRs fit into different offensive schemes than others.

Moss is not a perfect fit for the type offense we have run in recent years. We will revise it a bit to accomodate him, but there are certain offensive schemes that we will run that he will never fit into and other WRs will be needed to take up the slack.

 

[Rob0729]

My argument is the same, only extend it to the whole 16 game season for Caldwell. Any average NFL WR (e.g. Gaffney) would have done the same thing in Caldwell's shoes.

All things being equal, give me the guy who doesn't drop the ball TWICE when completely wide open in the AFCC.

Maroney fumble the ball three yards from the goalline (only shear luck of the bounce of the ball turned that from total disaster into a TD) and carried the ball 8 times for 13 yards the rest of the game for an impressive 1.6 YPC. By your arguement about dropping the ball twice, Maroney should be cut too.

A lot of players played miserably in the AFC Championship game and some of them were far worse than Caldwell. Yet, Caldwell is the only guy getting penalized for it in the eyes of some of the fans.