so when does a player become not defenseless?
After the game,
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Already quoted it for you from the rule book.
Once he completes the catch and has had time to protect himself as a runner.
(2) A receiver attempting to catch a pass; or who has completed a catch and has not had time to protect himself or has not clearly become a runner. If the receiver/runner is capable of avoiding or warding off the impending contact of an opponent, he is no longer a defenseless player;
Sounds like he was attempting it and had time to defend himself
so he wasn't defenseless
I'm pretty certain that WAS called a penalty.
Whats the solution? There have to be judgment calls.
Did you miss the "If the receiver/runner is capable of avoiding or warding off the impending contact of an opponent, he is no longer a defenseless player;" Nowhere in that statement does it require completing a catch. He was certainly capable of defending himself, in fact the replay showed him look STRAIGHT AT Browner coming in. He decided to still try to haul in the pass rather than brace for impact/move. I admire that, but it means he WASNT a defenseless receiver. Otherwise, we'd see the flag come out on every screen pass...
..Q. Tedy, huge fan! ... Also, what are your thoughts on the Brandon Browner hit? Should these personal foul calls be reviewable? -- Bert (Washington, D.C.)
On Browner's hit, I know it took away a touchdown, but I've seen less called. The shoulder was to the head or neck area and that's what the rule says. I don't know an officiating crew that wouldn't have called that one. I don't like the rule, like everyone else, because it looked like Browner made an effort. But if the head or neck area is threatened, the officials' player-safety training kicks into effect.
What does everyone think about the 'helmet to helmet' penalty on Browner that negated a McCourty pick six?
Even after the win, I'm still livid that they called this back. I mean, Browner made a clean, hard hit that resulted in a game changing pick six, the ref has the nerve to give the Chargers a 'get out of jail' card. I'm so frustrated by this.
I still wouldn't agree with the call if they called it a hit on a defenseless receiver but that would be an easier sell.
Even with this play being called back, our defense came up HUGE tonight.
Go Pats.
The problem I have is the NFL assigning Leavy to do THIS game....he almost guarantees an intergalactic eff up in every big game he refs. It's HISTORY and don't try to sell me on the notion that Goodell DOESN'T know it. He does. Leavy ALSO reffed the Jets game. Weird , eh? Funny how close THAT games was despite the almost non existent Jet secondary. Keep your eyes open for a Goodelian end run in the playoffs starring Boger, Triplette or,if a road game, Leavy again.
Sounds like he was attempting it and had time to defend himself
so he wasn't defenseless
Yeah, the "defenseless" argument is a crock. You just aren't granted an unlimited amount of time to bobble a ball, particularly when you are staring down the defender the entire time.
If someone wants to say that the hit was illegal under any circumstance, so be it. I don't agree with it, but at least it's an argument worth making.
I think this is they key. He didn't have to continue to try to catch the ball, he could have instead went to protect himself. He had an adequate enough time to stop juggling the ball and brace for impact.
For reference in this thread, here's the defenseless player rule since that has at least a chance of being legitimately applied to the Browner play. (I do think a H2H call was indefensible):
2 is just the definition of defenselessBy those rules Browner violated (2), (b-1) and possibly the launching rule (b-3i). All he had to do to avoid the penalty was hit him just a little lower. Browner had all the chance he needed to do that.
LOL @ people insisting on last word
It was a clean hit and a bad call.
neither helmet was involved, the neck was not part of the hit, and the pass catcher had time to avoid the hit......textbook
2 is just the definition of defenseless
B1 describes the hit
He did not launch
I wasn't sure on the launch either. Joker's picture clearly showed Browner with at least one foot on the ground at contact. The picture also clearly showed Browner's shoulder making contact with the face mask, enough to spin it around a little. That's more like the face area than the neck area, and should leave no doubt that the hit was too high.
I think we can all agree that we want Browner to continue to provide hits like that for the team, but I'll be pretty upset if he takes a dumb penalty at the wrong time in the playoffs. He could have provided just as great a hit by hitting him in the chest and avoided the penalty.