Brian Waters Cap Question

[naF staP]

My source shows that Brian Waters Cap space for 2013 is $2.25 million. If he doesn't come back (he wont) will that money move to next season and free up another $2.25 million for this season? How does that work? When will it go away?

 

[Joker]

what is your source?

the cap page we've been using doesn't even show Waters on it for 2013...

Miguel's UNOFFICIAL 2013 Patriots Salary Cap Information Page

the Jet fan person who we use also doesn't list Waters either..

» Over the Cap- New England Patriots 2013 Salary Cap Page

are you thinking about Fanene instead?

 

[Brady6]

what is your source?

the cap page we've been using doesn't even show Waters on it for 2013...

Miguel's UNOFFICIAL 2013 Patriots Salary Cap Information Page

the Jet fan person who we use also doesn't list Waters either..

» Over the Cap- New England Patriots 2013 Salary Cap Page

are you thinking about Fanene instead?

I saw it on ESPN. But figured it wasn't update.

 

[naF staP]

New England Patriots - 2013 Cap Hits

 

[Rob0729]

what is your source?

the cap page we've been using doesn't even show Waters on it for 2013...

Miguel's UNOFFICIAL 2013 Patriots Salary Cap Information Page

the Jet fan person who we use also doesn't list Waters either..

» Over the Cap- New England Patriots 2013 Salary Cap Page

are you thinking about Fanene instead?

Miguel is back? Good to hear! Welcome back Miguel if you are reading.

I appreciate Jason over at NYJetsCap.com, but I feel a little dirty getting my Patriots cap information on a Jets fan run board no matter how good his numbers are and how he breaks the trend and is an actual intelligent and rational Jets fan.

 

[Patsrock]

His contract tolled to 2013. Thus until Pats release him counts against cap.

Boston.com

 

[Joker]

Waters 2012 cap hit was tolled to 2013 when he failed to report last season...it doesn't count against the Pats 2013 cap unless he somehow has a change of heart.

personally, I'm not comfortable discussing cap ramifications...normally we leave that up to MoLewisRocks but he's been in absentia for some reason since the last part of February....hopefully that is just temporary...I'd hazard a guess that Deus would know the complete story here also.

 

[Rob0729]

Waters 2012 cap hit was tolled to 2013 when he failed to report last season...it doesn't count against the Pats 2013 cap unless he somehow has a change of heart.

Yeah, he is still on reserve did not report until the Pats take him off or he officially retires. His salary will not be activated unless the Pats' choose to take him off that status.

 

[supafly]

His contract tolled to 2013. Thus until Pats release him counts against cap.


Boston.com

That isn't correct. You are just confused because his contract tolled over to 2013 since he never reported. He didn't get an additional year of play credited to his contract, that's all that they're saying.

Waters 2012 cap hit was tolled to 2013 when he failed to report last season...it doesn't count against the Pats 2013 cap unless he somehow has a change of heart.

Right. They simply put him on the "did not report" list and therefore his cap hit is absolutely irrelevant.

I guarantee they wouldn't be paying an extra 2.5 million against the cap for no good reason. They do not get charged that money if he's put on the list.

EDIT: Sorry, saw that rob answered that already.

 

[Patsrock]

Yeah, he is still on reserve did not report until the Pats take him off or he officially retires. His salary will not be activated unless the Pats' choose to take him off that status.

But don't those list reset on new league year?

 

[Rob0729]

But don't those list reset on new league year?

Pretty sure the Pats have to activate him for it to reset. It is an unofficial retirement until he returns or sends in his papers. The Pats just retain his rights right now, but aren't on the hook for his cap money.

 

[Sciz]

If he shows up, then he's still under contract and the Pats would have to either let him play or release him. If he doesn't show up, then his contract will toll another year.

 

[Patsrock]

Pretty sure the Pats have to activate him for it to reset. It is an unofficial retirement until he returns or sends in his papers. The Pats just retain his rights right now, but aren't on the hook for his cap money.

Or he just shows up and reports and Pats have to activate him or release him. In other words Pats have to keep 2.25m in cap space to be accommodate him or release players.

 

[Miguel]

The only way I can get my numbers for the Patriots to be close to what the media is reporting is not to include Brian Waters' cap number so that it was I have been doing.

 

[Rob0729]

Or he just shows up and reports and Pats have to activate him or release him. In other words Pats have to keep 2.25m in cap space to be accommodate him or release players.

They don't have to keep the money available, but they will have to cut him if he shows up if they don't have the cap room. Unless they can trade him within the grace period that would have to decide to activate him. I am pretty sure they will have a week or two decide if they want to activate him if he shows up.

But the Pats always keep at least $2-3 million open in cap space. They keep it in case they need it and that money can be carried over into next year if they don't need it. Most teams do this.

I seriously doubt the Pats will keep $2.25 million of cap space reserved for Waters just in case he decides to show up. Personally, I think the NFL has heard the last of Waters. At 36, the chances of him making a comeback are remote at best.

 

[mgteich]

I have a few questions/comments with regard to the cap and your page.

A) Hasn't the cap been raised an extra $.9M?

B) I think that Deaderick is too high a cap hit on your page.

C) Larsen has been cut.

D) Your sheet and Jason's differ insignificantly with regard to the cap hits for Gronkowski, Hightower and Cannon ($26K to $50K).

E) Will we get an official league number on Tuesday or Wednesday?

The only way I can get my numbers for the Patriots to be close to what the media is reporting is not to include Brian Waters' cap number so that it was I have been doing.

 

[DaBruinz]

My understanding is that the Base Salary Cap for each team this season is $123 Million. The extra 900K that was mentioned by some is for additional benefits. Something that we don't normally see as fans..

EDIT:

I notice that no one is mentioning Tony Fiametta. Wasn't he only given a 1 year exemption? Or does he stay exempt until he reports again?

Also, I noticed that you don't have Kyle Hix with any dead money. I thought he got some signing bonus money when he signed with the Pats last year.

I believe that Jeremy Ebert was signed to a futures contract.
http://bostonherald.com/sports/patriots_nfl/blitz/2013/01/source_jeremy_ebert_signs_future_contract

 

[Miguel]

I have a few questions/comments with regard to the cap and your page.

B) I think that Deaderick is too high a cap hit on your page.

Fixed

C) Larsen has been cut.

Had him twice on the webpage but not on the Excel workbook

D) Your sheet and Jason's differ insignificantly with regard to the cap hits for Gronkowski, Hightower and Cannon ($26K to $50K).

My numbers for Cannon match. Had transposed some numbers for Hightower. Working on figuring out why my Gronk numbers differ from Jason's.

I have them as
Salary 630,000
2010 Signing Bonus Proration 440,000
2012 Signing Bonus Proration 1,600,000
2015 Option Bonus Proration
Roster Bonus
Offseason Workout Bonus 30,000
Totals 2,700,000

Jason has another $50,000 of signing bonus proration. If one includes the 50K, then Gronk's number matches what Field Yates reported in

Patriots roster by cap charge - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

I just cannot find a reason for the 50K proration.

E) Will we get an official league number on Tuesday or Wednesday?

Doubt it.

 

[Miguel]

I notice that no one is mentioning Tony Fiametta. Wasn't he only given a 1 year exemption? Or does he stay exempt until he reports again?

Not including him until I see that he is no longer exempt.

Also, I noticed that you don't have Kyle Hix with any dead money. I thought he got some signing bonus money when he signed with the Pats last year.

Fixed.

I believe that Jeremy Ebert was signed to a futures contract.
http://bostonherald.com/sports/patriots_nfl/blitz/2013/01/source_jeremy_ebert_signs_future_contract

Have to add him and the other non-top 51 players onto the page.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

Nothing much to add other than welcome back Miguel!