Branch or Stallworth

[BradyFTW!]

A couple other things to consider:

• Fells has $2,000,000 guaranteed; Shiancoe has $400k guaranteed.
  
  
• In terms of cap space it would actually cost the Pats more to cut Fells than to keep him (over $590k).
  
  
• When both were available the Pats signed Fells, not Shiancoe.
  
  
• Shiancoe was only signed after Fells was injured and Scaife did not work out.
  
  
• While the difference in signing bonuses does not appear to be that great, have the Patriots ever released a player that was given that much of a signing bonus or that much in guaranteed money in his first training camp with the team?
  

I still believe that if both are healthy then Fells will not be cut while Shiancoe makes the team. Fells going on PUP or IR? That's a different story.

If the Patriots don't have room for Fells on the roster, I'd assume that they would just IR him, then make him compete with Ballard next season.

 

[BradyManny]

While the difference in signing bonuses does not appear to be that great, have the Patriots ever released a player that was given that much of a signing bonus or that much in guaranteed money in his first training camp with the team?

[/LIST]


I still believe that if both are healthy then Fells will not be cut while Shiancoe makes the team. Fells going on PUP or IR? That's a different story.

All fair points - though I still don't know where the other $1 mill guaranteed is on that Fells deal, let me know if you have a link on that.

I'd say it's highly unlikely that Fells is cut, so ultimately I agree with all you say. But I'd also say it's likely that Shiancoe makes the team, at this point. Fells might've been the Patriots preference, and I think age and potential was the reason why, but Shiancoe has a decent history of production.

 

[mgteich]

Welker, Gronkowski, Hernandez, Lloyd, Gaffney and a RB, that's 6. Branch or Stallworth would be the #7 target if either were active. More likely, Edelman would be the #7 target since he would be active.

Neither. No other team wants Branch. The Pats can call him up and he'll be ready in a week if they need him midseason. Until then, he's the #6 receiving option in an offense that really only uses 4.5.

 

[patsfan-1982]

the fact that Stallworth only had like 12 rec the last 6 games of the 2007 season and has only had 41 rec in the 5 years since leveing the pats tells me hes a long shot to make the pats or any NFL team

 

[Linda_The_Pats_Fan (She was NEM)]

I think that Josh McDaniels wants to, and will, repeat the record breaking 2007 season when he had Welker, Moss, Stallworth and Gaffney and I believe that he will do it especially with Lloyd in place of Moss.

They have the talent to put up points in unbelievable record numbers and hopefully will utilize that talent and not handcuff themselves by attempting to establish a running game....

They have an adequate enough of a running game that, if used properly at the right times, will do just enough to keep opposing defenses honest..


And, an all out passing attack will make the running game more effective, too.

But, this team will live, or die, with the passing game. Show it early, show it often and go for the jugular from the getgo.

To do anything else is a recipe for failure and I believe that McDaniels knows it.

 

[JR4]

the fact that Stallworth only had like 12 rec the last 6 games of the 2007 season and has only had 41 rec in the 5 years since leveing the pats tells me hes a long shot to make the pats or any NFL team

Don't you think how well he performs this year in training camp may count
for something? He has been performing and Branch has been sitting.
Stats are not the bottom line. They need to be put into context.
(for example: Washington, Browns only 22 games played in two years as well as other factors contributed to low stats you stated)
With Brady he has averaged 15+yds/catch if you want stats. He is a legit deep threat. If needed.

 

[RayClay]

Sad to say it, but I think Branch is a goner. He seemed to get older as the season went on last year.

There's a way to avoid that? Don't hold out on me now.

 

[Joker]

They Froze Ted's Head!!! They Froze Ted Williams Head!!

 

[JoeSixPat]

Good discussion here!

The way I look at it, while Branch and Stallworth play two different roles - with Stallworth providing depth at the #1 behind Lloyd - it could still come down to a decision between the two

They've actually got a lot of depth at Branch's skill set - the short to mid range pass.

Between Welker and Gronk and Hernandez, and even the RBs as pass catching options, I'm not sure how many more passes there are.

And that's just the short pass options.

Having some addition depth to stretch the field - even with Stallworth and Lloyd on the field at the same time - could be interesting.

All this is predicated on both Branch and Stallworth playing to expectation - but in that scenario I pick depth at last year's weak link - and one that is currently dependent on Lloyd alone - the Deep Game.

 

[patfanken]

If the Patriots don't have room for Fells on the roster, I'd assume that they would just IR him, then make him compete with Ballard next season.

Actually in an idea world the Pats go with 4 TE's next year with Fells the Hernandez back up, while a healthy Ballard backs up Gronk. Both have similar, but lesser skills than the starters

 

[MoLewisrocks]

All fair points - though I still don't know where the other $1 mill guaranteed is on that Fells deal, let me know if you have a link on that.

I'd say it's highly unlikely that Fells is cut, so ultimately I agree with all you say. But I'd also say it's likely that Shiancoe makes the team, at this point. Fells might've been the Patriots preference, and I think age and potential was the reason why, but Shiancoe has a decent history of production.

Per Rotoworld, and Jason has his dead cap if currently cut at $2M. Has his dead cap next offseason at $666K. So that likely means its his 2012 salary that is guaranteed in addition to his $1M signing bonus.

3/19/2012: Signed a three-year, $5.25 million contract. The deal contains $2 million guaranteed, including a $1 million signing bonus. Another $1.75 million is available through incentives. 2012: $1 million, 2013: $1.25 million, 2014: $1.75 million, 2015: Free Agent

I think whatever ailed him (reports were he was dealing with an existing condition) turned out to be more problematic than they ever anticipated. I wouldn't be surprised to find out down the line that he had a procedure done (given he hasn't been sighted anywhere since camp started). But since he is on PUP and Shiancoe is here it's likely that is how they will go into the season. At this point they would lose cap to cut him and the $2M is sunk cost against he's under contract for 2 more seasons (during which he can be pressed to take a haircut on base salary recouping some of that cash and cap). Absent familiarity with the system he might not be as viable going forward, but he has that with Josh. So for now he's likely mid season depth and 2013 would open with he and Ballard competing for the #3 TE position and if Welker is gone maybe it's more likely they carry 4.

 

[pencilneckgeek]

Stallworth. He's a better backup for Lloyd than Branch, whereas Edelman is a better backup to Welker, and Gaffney is a better 3rd receiver than Branch. We won't be going with 4 WR, as our 2nd and 3rd best receivers are TEs. Stallworth also has more special teams utility and seems to be less likely to break down over the course of a season. The only situation where I'd rather have Branch is if Gaffney were to go down, but then we'd still have plenty of offensive options with Gronk, Hernandez, and Edelman - who needs the reps, since he'll be our starting slot receiver next year. Now where's that duck and cover smiley?

 

[Ring 6]

Stallworth > Branch RIGHT NOW! Branch will be a cut beileve it ot not!

I have no clue what people see in Stallworth. He has barely been able to hang on to an NFL job since 2007.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Stallworth. He's a better backup for Lloyd than Branch, whereas Edelman is a better backup to Welker, and Gaffney is a better 3rd receiver than Branch. We won't be going with 4 WR, as our 2nd and 3rd best receivers are TEs. Stallworth also has more special teams utility and seems to be less likely to break down over the course of a season. The only situation where I'd rather have Branch is if Gaffney were to go down, but then we'd still have plenty of offensive options with Gronk, Hernandez, and Edelman - who needs the reps, since he'll be our starting slot receiver next year. Now where's that duck and cover smiley?

Stallworth has no more special teams utility than Branch. He hasn't played ST since his first 3 seasons and even then he didn't do much. As for Donte being less likely to break down, part of his problem throughout his career was his hammies were always an issue.

 

[mgteich]

You suggest a 2013 haircut on base salary. In the end, that means that his other choice is to be an UFA. I expect that someone will be willing to pay Fells $1M per year.

Per Rotoworld, and Jason has his dead cap if currently cut at $2M. Has his dead cap next offseason at $666K. So that likely means its his 2012 salary that is guaranteed in addition to his $1M signing bonus.

I think whatever ailed him (reports were he was dealing with an existing condition) turned out to be more problematic than they ever anticipated. I wouldn't be surprised to find out down the line that he had a procedure done (given he hasn't been sighted anywhere since camp started). But since he is on PUP and Shiancoe is here it's likely that is how they will go into the season. At this point they would lose cap to cut him and the $2M is sunk cost against he's under contract for 2 more seasons (during which he can be pressed to take a haircut on base salary recouping some of that cash and cap). Absent familiarity with the system he might not be as viable going forward, but he has that with Josh. So for now he's likely mid season depth and 2013 would open with he and Ballard competing for the #3 TE position and if Welker is gone maybe it's more likely they carry 4.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

You suggest a 2013 haircut on base salary. In the end, that means that his other choice is to be an UFA. I expect that someone will be willing to pay Fells $1M per year.

I don't know, if this team walks away after losing a season of production...not a slam dunk others are falling over themselves to sign a player. Besides while you dislike the option, most of those discussions occur after optimum time for hitting FA happens...

 

[Ron Sellers]

All off season I have been of the opinion that Branch had a much better chance of making the team than Stallworth does, based on comparing the production of the two players in recent years and considering his chemistry and being on the same page with Brady - a vital factor to being a positive part of this offense.

The caveat to that would be if in August we saw the speed and quickness of the December/January Deion Branch rather than the speed and quickness of the September Deion Branch. If that was the case then he's as good as gone, but include me in as part of the camp that believes he slowed down in large part due to overuse (due to the failure of Ochocinco).

However, PatFanKen has me rethinking my viewpoint. Branch or Stallworth will rarely be on the field, unless there is an injury. They would represent the 6th option in the passing game; as WR#4 they would only be getting about four or five snaps per game, if that. If Lloyd gets hurt, who becomes more important to the roster, Stallworth or Branch? I would think the answer would be Stallworth (although Gaffney might be moved over there as well), but I don't think we want to put Branch out there again.

Because WR#4 will get so few snaps per game, it's less about who is the better WR#4 and more about who is more important in case of injury.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Branch may have slowed down a bit but there has never been a receiver on this team that has been so in sync with Brady as Branch has been in his career.

Stallworth IMO would be a bad choice to keep between the two.

If there is a situation to complete a long pass to win a game I think Branch would be the guy Brady looks for and trusts more than Stallworth.

 

[patfanken]

You know when you think about it, its to the credit of Pats fans that we can have such a spirited 12 page debate on who might be the last WR on the roster. Imagine if you posted at thread over at JI on who is going to be cut between Patrick Turner and Eron Riley You'd probably get about 10 posts with half of them asking "who are those guys?"

Take a bow, guys. We are either very good and knowledgeable fans.....or have way too much time on our hands.

 

[Rob0729]

Stallworth will win the job if he can prove he can be a reliable and productive kick returner. Otherwise, I think Branch will win the job. Although, I wouldn't be surprised that both get cut if Edelman shows his worth and/or someone comes available that Belichick and McDaniels want. I don't think either Branch or Stallworth are irreplaceable. In fact, I think if the right player is available, both are easily replaceable.