Branch or Stallworth

[Claremonster]

I like Branch better sorry.
We drafted Stallworth in 2002, 1st round, and I was a big fan. Apparently someone was mystified by the Name.

But he always did very well in training camp. Stallworth looks great in training camp, and always made the 4th spot or 3rd.
Problem is during a real game he could never get it together. When Payton came in, in 2006, he evaluated him will Brees and quickly traded him to the
Egals.
I trust him as a backup, but I just don't trust his game play anymore. At least with Branch you know what your getting,even if he can't get open sometimes.

Branch is made of glass. Stallworth can run over people...

 

[DejaBLue]

I think if all things are even...it's Branch with the chemistry edge with Brady.
Either way it's a secondary level of WR, so for BB it's probably a toss up.

 

[supafly]

Do either of these guys have any value outside of NE?

I.e. if both were cut and latched on to another team, what would be the estimated production? Would they be 25-35 catch guys elsewhere or would they be 55-65 catch guys?

I believe that they would certainly be "25-35 catch guys" on another team.

There are likely a lot of teams that could use a 4th/5th/even 6th WR option on their teams, depending upon how many they keep, and who may/may not decide to take a chance on either one of them.

One way or another though, they'd be competing for lesser snaps that any of the 1-2-3 WR's and 1-2 TE's on just about every team, but they could possibly fill out someone's depth chart at WR, sure.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I believe that they would certainly be "25-35 catch guys" on another team.

There are likely a lot of teams that could use a 4th/5th/even 6th WR option on their teams, depending upon how many they keep, and who may/may not decide to take a chance on either one of them.

One way or another though, they'd be competing for lesser snaps that any of the 1-2-3 WR's and 1-2 TE's on just about every team, but they could possibly fill out someone's depth chart at WR, sure.

35 is Stallworth's career average. He's only topped it 4 times (including once barely) in 9 years and the last time he did was 5 year ago. Branch on the other hand has only been in that range twice in 11 years and both times played half a season. Although in one of those half seasons he was a post season MVP... Branch had 51 receptions last season on a team with the most prolific pass catcher in the game and a TE duo for the ages competing for targets. Stallworth was out produced on really bad teams including by guys I've never heard of. On more talented teams he was a 4th or 5th WR and 5th or 6th option at best.

Some fans here seem to think that somehow they will get the reincarnation of 2007 26 year old Donte Stallworth, who still wasn't in poor old Deion's league as recently as last season. He may still have some speed, but then he always did. If Lloyd goes down Stallworth's speed won't compensate. I'd imagine in that instance they would revert to last year's plan with Gaffney taking the Ocho role and making a lot more out of it and Branch taking back his previous role which Gaffney is likely the frontrunner for. The beauty of those two is they can run any route on the tree and sub for anyone in the unit, including Welker in a pinch... Would they command the attention? Probably not, but that works to their (savvy) advantage short term not to mention Brady's.

A couple of observers of late have noted that Stallworth struggles to get off the jam, and struggles locating throws tight coverage, and for an outside/deep WR in an up tempo offense that is generally the kiss of death. Lloyd has a little pre 2008 Moss in him in his ability to deke coverage and compete for throws into tight coverage. If that guy is out I don't think you replace him, you adapt and adjust in his absence. Both Gaffney and Branch are adaptable, and capable of contributing to the overall scheme even when they aren't priority targets.

 

[patchick]

35 is Stallworth's career average. He's only topped it 4 times (including once barely) in 9 years and the last time he did was 5 year ago. Branch on the other hand has only been in that range twice in 11 years and both times played half a season. Although in one of those half seasons he was a post season MVP... Branch had 51 receptions last season on a team with the most prolific pass catcher in the game and a TE duo for the ages competing for targets. Stallworth was out produced on really bad teams including by guys I've never heard of. On more talented teams he was a 4th or 5th WR and 5th or 6th option at best.

There's no question that Deion has been the better NFL receiver by a wide margin. If the Deion who BEGAN last season is an option, IMO he wins this competition going away.

My question is whether he has recovered to that point, or whether injury has left him the Deion who ENDED last season -- the one who caught only 6 passes over the last 5 games and who looked like he was running, painfully, through molasses. Early camp reports haven't been encouraging, alas.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I don't think Deion was injured so much as worn down last season. He was on the field for a majority of snaps. Reports from mini camp and OTA's were that he looked like the Deion of 2010 and early 2011. Reports from 6 days of TC are that he's seeing limited reps, and for a vet his age who knows the offense and the QB inside out that isn't surprising.

 

[mgteich]

Would either Branch or Stallworth be active absent injuries?

 

[patchick]

I don't think Deion was injured so much as worn down last season. He was on the field for a majority of snaps. Reports from mini camp and OTA's were that he looked like the Deion of 2010 and early 2011. Reports from 6 days of TC are that he's seeing limited reps, and for a vet his age who knows the offense and the QB inside out that isn't surprising.

I certainly hope that's true. Honestly, I hate the thought of cutting EITHER of them -- it seems like the WR/TE roster right now has not just talent but a great attitude and esprit de corps. Branch and Stallworth both have reputations as A+ teammates.

 

[bagwell368]

I don't think Deion was injured so much as worn down last season. He was on the field for a majority of snaps. Reports from mini camp and OTA's were that he looked like the Deion of 2010 and early 2011. Reports from 6 days of TC are that he's seeing limited reps, and for a vet his age who knows the offense and the QB inside out that isn't surprising.

I just reread about 30 posts over the last month on this topic. The reports on Branch are mixed, the most severe by Bedard in early June:

Deion Branch "continues to be unimpressive" in OTAs. "The guy catches everything but his burst is diminishing," adds Bedard. If not for Branch's mind-meld rapport with Tom Brady, it's unlikely he would have been re-signed after fading drastically down the stretch last season. Jabar Gaffney, spending most of his practice time behind Wes Welker in the slot, could begin eating into Branch's reps.

The last two days Branch has been dinged which doesn't help.

===========================================

BB favors the old vets many times, but the battle is not just Branch vs Stallworth. One also has to figure out the depth at all WR positions, and Branch seems like someone that would never be used at the X, and barely at the Z given the roster. While Branch knows all the positions he's behind the guys I listed at each position:

X (Lloyd, Stallworth, Gaffney, Slater); (forget Welker, Edelman and Branch here)
Y (Welker, Gaffney, AH, Branch, Edelman); (Stallworth and Slater don't fit)
Z (Gaffney, AH, Stallworth, Branch, Slater); (Welker and Edelman out)

When it's 5 wide, it's the starters at the three positions above + Gronk, AH.

If Stallworth continues to impress as he has and shows some more useable utility on ST then Branch - then BB going with Branch would seem to be putting his comfort ahead of the inputs.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

May have missed it but Branch seemed "invisible" at Friday's session. Love The Twig but even Tedy Bruschi finally got too old to run with the big dogs. His best chance to make it is a horrific rash of camp injuries to the other WRs.

 

[RIpats88]

I feel like Branch may have been worn out by the end of last season...he wasnt meant to play the amount of snaps he did last year. The only reason he did was because we really had no better option...behind him was Ochocinco who was worthless and Tiquan underwood.

I mean think about it. last year he was our #2 WR and this year he's fighting for a roster spot. shows the difference in talent level

now, playing limited snaps, maybe he can be much more effective...whomever gets the role is NOT going to be playing much at all unless injuries crop up...because as I see it..your 1,2,3 are already set in stone with Welker,Lloyd,gaffney.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I just reread about 30 posts over the last month on this topic. The reports on Branch are mixed, the most severe by Bedard in early June:

Deion Branch "continues to be unimpressive" in OTAs. "The guy catches everything but his burst is diminishing," adds Bedard. If not for Branch's mind-meld rapport with Tom Brady, it's unlikely he would have been re-signed after fading drastically down the stretch last season. Jabar Gaffney, spending most of his practice time behind Wes Welker in the slot, could begin eating into Branch's reps.

The last two days Branch has been dinged which doesn't help.

===========================================

BB favors the old vets many times, but the battle is not just Branch vs Stallworth. One also has to figure out the depth at all WR positions, and Branch seems like someone that would never be used at the X, and barely at the Z given the roster. While Branch knows all the positions he's behind the guys I listed at each position:

X (Lloyd, Stallworth, Gaffney, Slater); (forget Welker, Edelman and Branch here)
Y (Welker, Gaffney, AH, Branch, Edelman); (Stallworth and Slater don't fit)
Z (Gaffney, AH, Stallworth, Branch, Slater); (Welker and Edelman out)

When it's 5 wide, it's the starters at the three positions above + Gronk, AH.

If Stallworth continues to impress as he has and shows some more useable utility on ST then Branch - then BB going with Branch would seem to be putting his comfort ahead of the inputs.

His burst is diminishing is a little too broad an assessment for me. Diminishing as compared to what, early last season, 2010, 2003, the tail end of 2011? Bedard was also convinced back in June that Jones was a raw situational player at best this season, now he's the second coming. I just think that Branch doesn't need the work or the risk and he could play in September if he showed up late like a certain OG is being allowed to. Stallworth, Lloyd, Gaffney, Edleman all need reps with Tom to establish or re-establish sympatico. Branch came back in cold in 2010 and had it. And I think you forgot that your depth chart is based on your opinion...

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

His burst is diminishing is a little too broad an assessment for me. Diminishing as compared to what, early last season, 2010, 2003, the tail end of 2011? Bedard was also convinced back in June that Jones was a raw situational player at best this season, now he's the second coming. I just think that Branch doesn't need the work or the risk and he could play in September if he showed up late like a certain OG is being allowed to. Stallworth, Lloyd, Gaffney, Edleman all need reps with Tom to establish or re-establish sympatico. Branch came back in cold in 2010 and had it. And I think you forgot that your depth chart is based on your opinion...

That's probably the best explanation why we see The Twig get so few reps.
There's a tradition of BB allowing certain aged vets to miss camp. Roman Phifer.

 

[bagwell368]

His burst is diminishing is a little too broad an assessment for me. Diminishing as compared to what, early last season, 2010, 2003, the tail end of 2011? Bedard was also convinced back in June that Jones was a raw situational player at best this season, now he's the second coming. I just think that Branch doesn't need the work or the risk and he could play in September if he showed up late like a certain OG is being allowed to. Stallworth, Lloyd, Gaffney, Edleman all need reps with Tom to establish or re-establish sympatico. Branch came back in cold in 2010 and had it. And I think you forgot that your depth chart is based on your opinion...

Do you think Jones displayed his entire bag of tricks on Day 1? Maybe he learned more, maybe he was told to go through a progression. Unless you were there you don't know that Bedard's evalution was wrong? All you can do to try and make your case is claim Bedard was wrong in hindsight. Fail.

In addition, as I mentioned, there were other assessments from other sources that were down on Branch.

Edelman and Gaffney have both been mentioned as having a very good connection with Brady so far. Even more promising is Lloyd hit the ground running and Brady and Lloyd have been effusive in praise for the other. I don't think short of injuries any of those guys should be worried about.

I didn't forget how utterly lame Branch was as last season wore on, or his age right now - the oldest of an old group - when making my lists - nor his lack of anything like top end speed needed at either FL or SE.

 

[Sean Pa Patriot]

i love deion branch, Tom Brady loves deion branch... but he might have lost a step... and Stallworth from all reports is working his tail off and may be another one who can stretch the field... i voted stallworth, but somehow i hope branch is on the team.... but you cant have them all and welker gaf and lloyd are all making it...

 

[UK_Pat37]

It's a toughie but I voted Stallworth because I think he has another dimension and I think Branch has lost a step. I really wouldn't complain with either it don't think there's room for both.

Here's a situation. If Ebert wows coaches through preseason, could you dispose of both? Gotta argue a trio of Lloyd, Welker and Gaffney would do us fine, with the younger guns like Edelman and Ebert in their wake.

 

[fgssand]

It appears that we have Lloyd, Welker & Gaffney the top three. Edelman and Slater make it due to youth and special teams.

I think branch gets the nod as the one guy you want to see come in off the bench or for a game or three due to injury, is the guy that can step in and click with Brady right away. Stallworth is not that guy, Deion Branch is.

In spite of the fact that Stallworth would be the best choice to replace lloyd if injury happens, Deion is a big game player that can back up all positions - the thought of a rested, fresh Deion is just what this team may need.