Bill Polian vs. Scott Pioli - Which one is better?

[Nick25]

I guess they aren't going to sign any draft picks or free agents then?

The Colts can try to keep their team together for another year or two by restructuring numerous contracts, but they will have little or no opportunity to improve their team and/or plug holes. If they don't voluntarily make 2007 or 2008 a rebuilding year, they'll have to completely disassemble the team in 2009.

However, I do agree that they have to Franchise Freeny.

Im wondering where you get this information from? Manning, Wayne, Harrison, the core of their team, arent going anywhere for years. Stokely and Simon are likely to get cut or traded..Freeney will be resigned...they can let Rhodes go without it hurting them much...The offensive line is there with bow's on...and the defense for the most part is young. This "cap hell" you speak of is way over-hyped...as far as improving the team..well they just won the super bowl..how much better are they supposed to get? They're not an old team by any means, as long as they keep the squad relatively the same as they have now, there wont be any problems.

 

[bradmahn]

Polian..has built 3 different super bowl teams, one franchise that went to 4 straight super bowls (wont be duplicated in our lifetimes, and likely our childrens lifetimes, and so on, probably never) built up an expansion team into super bowl contention faster than anyone in history, and got the colts their ring this year. No comparison really, Polian is hands down the best GM in the league.

I know of the Colts, Bills, and... uh, who's the third Super Bowl team that he built? Umm...

Okay, so Wikipedia is BS, I know this, and is hardly a reliable source, but there is something that is curious in the entry for Polian:

"Polian was General Manger of the Panthers from 1994-1996. He tried to create the quickest Super Bowl winner in history, and nearly did so, building a team that went to the NFC Championship game in only its second year of existence. This feat led him to a promotion, becoming not just the GM, but the President of the Indianapolis Colts. Only after Polian left Charlotte was it discovered that his free agent moves nearly wrecked the team's future, and the Panthers collapsed into ignomy for several seasons thereafter."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Polian

Seeing as how I was 10 at the time and didn't understand the peculiar nuances of the NFL financial situation, can someone explain to me just what the free agent moves were? I'm assuming that it was a "mortgage the future for the present" move, but could someone 'clarify'? Doesn't seem like a solid way to build a franchise, or a move that the "best GM in the league" would make.

P.S. It also would appear that that system is also the one that Polian has used in Indy for the past 10 years, and will result in a huge cap crash.

 

[Nick25]

I know of the Colts, Bills, and... uh, who's the third Super Bowl team that he built? Umm...

Okay, so Wikipedia is BS, I know this, and is hardly a reliable source, but there is something that is curious in the entry for Polian:

"Polian was General Manger of the Panthers from 1994-1996. He tried to create the quickest Super Bowl winner in history, and nearly did so, building a team that went to the NFC Championship game in only its second year of existence. This feat led him to a promotion, becoming not just the GM, but the President of the Indianapolis Colts. Only after Polian left Charlotte was it discovered that his free agent moves nearly wrecked the team's future, and the Panthers collapsed into ignomy for several seasons thereafter."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Polian

Seeing as how I was 10 at the time and didn't understand the peculiar nuances of the NFL financial situation, can someone explain to me just what the free agent moves were? I'm assuming that it was a "mortgage the future for the present" move, but could someone 'clarify'? Doesn't seem like a solid way to build a franchise, or a move that the "best GM in the league" would make.

P.S. It also would appear that that system is also the one that Polian has used in Indy for the past 10 years, and will result in a huge cap crash.

I said he got them in "super bowl contention" I never said they got to the super bowl under Polian's tenure..they made the NFC championship in their second year..I fat fingered the 2 and shouldve been a 3.

The panther's werent complaining about Polian while he was there, or after he left...as for the colts, how can a system that sustained itself without a hitch for 10 years, a long time, and just reached its peak, super bowl win, be considered a failure?

As for the "free agent" fiasco you're refering to, you got that off wikipedia? lol hmmm, yeah ok. The Panther's havent been in that kind of a pickle yet, since they've been in the league what..12 years? Polian built them into instant winners..and it couldnt be sustained because the orginization had only been aquiring draft picks for a few years..the veteran guys left or retired..and they were exposed for not having any developing talent..which is no fault of polians..because the team didnt have access to such talent..ie. past draft picks.

 

[bradmahn]

Polian..has built 3 different super bowl teams, one franchise that went to 4 straight super bowls (wont be duplicated in our lifetimes, and likely our childrens lifetimes, and so on, probably never) built up an expansion team into super bowl contention faster than anyone in history, and got the colts their ring this year. No comparison really, Polian is hands down the best GM in the league.

You explicitly said Super Bowl teams, not contenders or "in contention." You can say you made a mistake and no one is going to hunt you down, but don't make stuff up.

As for the "free agent" fiasco you're refering to, you got that off wikipedia? lol hmmm, yeah ok. The Panther's havent been in that kind of a pickle yet, since they've been in the league what..12 years? Polian built them into instant winners..and it couldnt be sustained because the orginization had only been aquiring draft picks for a few years..the veteran guys left or retired..and they were exposed for not having any developing talent..which is no fault of polians..because the team didnt have access to such talent..ie. past draft picks.

I don't know how you'd define a "pickle," but, the last season Polian was in Carolina, the Panthers went 7-9. After he left the Panthers went 4-12, 8-8, 7-9, 1-15, and 7-9 before making it to the Super Bowl in '03. Now, my question was about the free agency fiasco and how Polian led to the demise of the Panthers and their struggles to maintain any semblance of competition, but for you to deny that they had any sort of pickle in their 12 year existence to defend Polian does nothing but make you look like a revisionist homer who should keep his opinions to himself.

Also, I'm no franchise expert, but 3 years of drafts (one in which they were handed premier positions because of expansion) and free agency would appear plenty of time for the greatest GM in the NFL to build a team that would be competitive for at least 3 years after he left, and not collapse to a 1-15 season when, presumably, the contracts that Polian negotiated would be in their final years.

It appears to some that Mr. Polian can do no wrong.

 

[Nick25]

You explicitly said Super Bowl teams, not contenders or "in contention." You can say you made a mistake and no one is going to hunt you down, but don't make stuff up.



I don't know how you'd define a "pickle," but, the last season Polian was in Carolina, the Panthers went 7-9. After he left the Panthers went 4-12, 8-8, 7-9, 1-15, and 7-9 before making it to the Super Bowl in '03. Now, my question was about the free agency fiasco and how Polian led to the demise of the Panthers and their struggles to maintain any semblance of competition, but for you to deny that they had any sort of pickle in their 12 year existence to defend Polian does nothing but make you look like a revisionist homer who should keep his opinions to himself.

Also, I'm no franchise expert, but 3 years of drafts (one in which they were handed premier positions because of expansion) and free agency would appear plenty of time for the greatest GM in the NFL to build a team that would be competitive for at least 3 years after he left, and not collapse to a 1-15 season when, presumably, the contracts that Polian negotiated would be in their final years.

It appears to some that Mr. Polian can do no wrong.

I said I fat fingered the 3 and shouldve hit the two. Look down for a minute..see the 2? Now see the 3? Theyre about 1/16th of inch apart. And by all means do hunt me down, since you were 10 years old when the Polian was with the Panthers, you just a pup and I'll own you and your stupid little world son.

Now, with the rest of the bs contained in your post. Maybe you have a reading problem...the Panther's hit a peak with Polian..and made the NFC championship in their second year in the league with a team built exclusively by him...the team could not sustain itself due to the fact it had only been involved in the NFL draft for 2 years and was still in its infancy. What part about this is hard for you to grasp, educate yourself. 3 years? Starting from scratch, is plenty of time to build a dynasty in your eyes....lol yeah ok. Stupidest freakin' comment of the year...but relax..you still have time to 1 up yourself.

By the way kiddo, the majority of contracts in the NFL at that time were of the 3 year variety...but since you were just a squirt back then (and in spirit obviously still are) I'll let that one slide..their 1-15 came in 2001...5 years after Polian had been gone..and the blame for that falls on him? You must be stupid, stupid, stupid. Dismissed.

ps. By no means am I a "bill polian" homer..what kinda lame ass comment is that? How can you be a homer of a GM? I really dont care much about the man to be honest. Speaking of do no wrong though, talking to most pat's fan's that apparently sums up BB well...short of the last 2 years in the playoff's, and when he was wearing a Brown's uniform of course. Idiot.

 

[Trenchwarfare]

.Also, Belichick is the chief decision maker on the Patriots and by league policy, the team does not have to let him leave for another team even if he is made GM.

Only true is he is under contract. Kraft does not believe in holding people back. He allowed Pioli to interview with the Giants - he didn't have to allow it - but Pioli declined to interview.

 

[bradmahn]

I said I fat fingered the 3 and shouldve hit the two. Look down for a minute..see the 2? Now see the 3? Theyre about 1/16th of inch apart. And by all means do hunt me down, since you were 10 years old when the Polian was with the Panthers, you just a pup and I'll own you and your stupid little world son.

Now, with the rest of the bs contained in your post. Maybe you have a reading problem...the Panther's hit a peak with Polian..and made the NFC championship in their second year in the league with a team built exclusively by him...the team could not sustain itself due to the fact it had only been involved in the NFL draft for 2 years and was still in its infancy. What part about this is hard for you to grasp, educate yourself. 3 years? Starting from scratch, is plenty of time to build a dynasty in your eyes....lol yeah ok. Stupidest freakin' comment of the year...but relax..you still have time to 1 up yourself.

By the way kiddo, the majority of contracts in the NFL at that time were of the 3 year variety...but since you were just a squirt back then (and in spirit obviously still are) I'll let that one slide..their 1-15 came in 2001...5 years after Polian had been gone..and the blame for that falls on him? You must be stupid, stupid, stupid. Dismissed.

Come on, "old man" (see, we can all be immature and act as if we are better than each other because of age, and, if you are such a smart man, that would make me 19 right now, and pretty damn capable of kicking your ass and "owning your stupid little world," but I'm above making e-threats to someone I've never met and know nothing about, other than that he thinks Wild Bill Polian is the man), you said you "fat fingered it" and "should have said 2" but you still made the claim that you said contenders and not Super Bowl teams, which was false. You continue to make excuses by "correcting" the miniscule and ignoring the obvious.

"I said he got them in "super bowl contention" I never said they got to the super bowl under Polian's tenure..they made the NFC championship in their second year..I fat fingered the 2 and shouldve been a 3."

You claim you said something that does not appear in any of your posts. If you just said you "fat fingered the 2 and shouldve been a 3" when talking about Super Bowl teams I would have dropped it and all would have been well, but you reworded your original post to make it seem as if you didn't make a mistake, and that is where I had the problem.

"I don't know how you'd define a "pickle," but, the last season Polian was in Carolina, the Panthers went 7-9. After he left the Panthers went 4-12, 8-8, 7-9, 1-15, and 7-9 before making it to the Super Bowl in '03. Now, my question was about the free agency fiasco and how Polian led to the demise of the Panthers and their struggles to maintain any semblance of competition, but for you to deny that they had any sort of pickle in their 12 year existence to defend Polian does nothing but make you look like a revisionist homer who should keep his opinions to himself."

Now, just because Polian "had nothing to do with the 1-15 season because NFL contracts were of the three year variety and he was 5 years removed from the job" (which, I will admit, I did not know, and if what you say is true, does mean that he isn't completely at fault) it doesn't change the fact that you said they were never in a pickle in their existence as a franchise.

See, you did blow me away with your knowledge of contractual length in the NFL in the late 1990s, but you do nothing for your awesome display of intellect when you consider one of the worst records in the history of the NFL not a pickle for a management team. And your choice of words when referring to the fact that I was 10 in the late 90s just makes you look like a ****.

ps. I didn't say you were a "Bill Polian 'homer'" because that would be ******ed, but if you are a Colts fan then it would not be unreasonable to assume that you would stick up for your GM. And to ignore certain areas of contention because he is your GM, or to falsify information, would make you a homer (and not of him, if I really do have to clarify myself, but of the Colts).

 

[bradmahn]

And if I was trying to have the last word, I would do this. Stupid. Stupid. Stupid. Idiot. Dismissed.

 

[pats1]

Have you forgotten you are a moderator? Moderators are not supposed to be making accusations or starting trouble? In my experience, those who throw the TROLL word around or boldly state that the Colts were 'handed' a SuperBowl are trying to cause a confrontation. I don't recall anywhere I have been gloating - unless it is in response to a poster challenging me that the Colts suck. I belong to several boards, and have belonged here for over a year. I had to reregister because you folks changed the passwords and messed up my other account. It was easier to reregister than to wait ( several times) for a new password.

For someone who has been here less than a month, I advise you not to talk about things you have absolutely no idea about.

 

[Rob0729]

Only true is he is under contract. Kraft does not believe in holding people back. He allowed Pioli to interview with the Giants - he didn't have to allow it - but Pioli declined to interview.

Kraft won't allow Belichick to leave without compensation if he is under contract. In fact, he never said he would let Pioli leave without compensation. Allowing Pioli to interview doesn't mean he was going to allow him to leave without compensation.

 

[Nick25]

Come on, "old man" (see, we can all be immature and act as if we are better than each other because of age, and, if you are such a smart man, that would make me 19 right now, and pretty damn capable of kicking your ass and "owning your stupid little world," but I'm above making e-threats to someone I've never met and know nothing about, other than that he thinks Wild Bill Polian is the man), you said you "fat fingered it" and "should have said 2" but you still made the claim that you said contenders and not Super Bowl teams, which was false. You continue to make excuses by "correcting" the miniscule and ignoring the obvious.

"I said he got them in "super bowl contention" I never said they got to the super bowl under Polian's tenure..they made the NFC championship in their second year..I fat fingered the 2 and shouldve been a 3."

You claim you said something that does not appear in any of your posts. If you just said you "fat fingered the 2 and shouldve been a 3" when talking about Super Bowl teams I would have dropped it and all would have been well, but you reworded your original post to make it seem as if you didn't make a mistake, and that is where I had the problem.

"I don't know how you'd define a "pickle," but, the last season Polian was in Carolina, the Panthers went 7-9. After he left the Panthers went 4-12, 8-8, 7-9, 1-15, and 7-9 before making it to the Super Bowl in '03. Now, my question was about the free agency fiasco and how Polian led to the demise of the Panthers and their struggles to maintain any semblance of competition, but for you to deny that they had any sort of pickle in their 12 year existence to defend Polian does nothing but make you look like a revisionist homer who should keep his opinions to himself."

Now, just because Polian "had nothing to do with the 1-15 season because NFL contracts were of the three year variety and he was 5 years removed from the job" (which, I will admit, I did not know, and if what you say is true, does mean that he isn't completely at fault) it doesn't change the fact that you said they were never in a pickle in their existence as a franchise.

See, you did blow me away with your knowledge of contractual length in the NFL in the late 1990s, but you do nothing for your awesome display of intellect when you consider one of the worst records in the history of the NFL not a pickle for a management team. And your choice of words when referring to the fact that I was 10 in the late 90s just makes you look like a ****.

ps. I didn't say you were a "Bill Polian 'homer'" because that would be ******ed, but if you are a Colts fan then it would not be unreasonable to assume that you would stick up for your GM. And to ignore certain areas of contention because he is your GM, or to falsify information, would make you a homer (and not of him, if I really do have to clarify myself, but of the Colts).

Polian..has built 2 different super bowl teams, one franchise that went to 4 straight super bowls (wont be duplicated in our lifetimes, and likely our childrens lifetimes, and so on, probably never) built up an expansion team into super bowl contention faster than anyone in history, and got the colts their ring this year. No comparison really, Polian is hands down the best GM in the league.


This is the exact post I made that you're refering to, only with the 3 changed to a 2, which I admited was a typo. Now see how much sense it makes. Polian has been the GM for 3 NFL teams..Bills, Colts, and Panthers...why in the hell would I go out of my way to say..."built up an expansion team into super bowl contention faster than anyone in history" if I had intended to claim he had gotten all 3 of his team's to the super bowl..I clearly indicated that he had gotten the Panthers into "super bowl contention" not to the super bowl, fool. You seriously need to take a night course and improve your reading comprehension skills before getting yourself into semantic debates on the internet.

A 1-15 season is bad....but when its sandwiched between two 7-9 seasons..I'd hardly call it a "pickle"..its more like "wheres the beef". It wasnt there...they suffered a severe drop off due to lack of draft pick's to suplement their franchise. It was a bad year..but to blame this on Polian and not on other circumstances in attempt to discredit him is idiotic. We can see the same drop off in the jackonsville franchise for the same reason. In 1999 they went 14-2, in the subsequent 5 year's they went 7-9, 6-10, 6-10, 5-11, 9-7. Not much different than the Panthers..other than the 1-15 season..which comes 5 year's after Polian was out the door. 1 year is plenty of time in this age in the NFL for a team to go from last in their division to first..to blame a team's downfall in a season based on what happend 5 year's ago is again...the dumbest statement I've heard regarding football in quite some time. I repeat, educated yourself.

And I never made an e-threat to anyone short cake...you were trying to flame..and I just let it be known thats just not gonna fly and gave you some free tooth whitening for your effort. Deal with it.

 

[bradmahn]

You're pretty funny for someone who obviously thinks so highly of himself. Now, "educated yourself" and reread what I posted and the problems that I had with your post(s).

Now, in my first post I asked who the third team was, and then asked a question regarding an entry on Polian in Wikipedia (a site I did discredit as not always being reliable). I did not attack you, nor did I make any e-threats. I provided some background as to why I was not one of our generations most profound Polian scholars (which, obviously in your great age and wisdom, you are), explaining that I was 10 at the time he switched teams. You found it necessary to insult me because of my age (something I can't readily change, let me know if, in your infinite wisdom, you discover a method to do so). That's pretty mature.

Also, in your response to my post you said "And by all means do hunt me down, since you were 10 years old when the Polian was with the Panthers, you just a pup and I'll own you and your stupid little world son." Nowhere did I say that I would ever hunt you down, in fact I said that no one would do that if you just admitted you were wrong. You perceived this as some threat and proceeded to claim you would "own my little world." Who's making the e-threats now?

And it isn't out of the question to suggest that the poor free agent acquisitions, poor draft picks, and questionable personality/character issues of the players that Polian drafted while with the Panthers all had nothing to do with their subsequent decline into NFL obscurity. And now, if we will completely ignore the 1-15 season, the 4-12 one that occurred within two years after he departed is not justifiably written off because he wasn't with the team. Those were his players that fell apart and lost 12 games.

This doesn't have to be an attack on you, I didn't intend for it to be, but if you want to continue calling me short cake and the like we can easily do so.

 

[Nick25]

And it isn't out of the question to suggest that the poor free agent acquisitions, poor draft picks, and questionable personality/character issues of the players that Polian drafted while with the Panthers all had nothing to do with their subsequent decline into NFL obscurity. And now, if we will completely ignore the 1-15 season, the 4-12 one that occurred within two years after he departed is not justifiably written off because he wasn't with the team. Those were his players that fell apart and lost 12 games.

I'll just focus on this part of your thread, since the other few paragraphs seem to consister of "wahhh you flamed me first" and has nothing to do with football, so Im gonna ignore it.

Heres a link to 1995 Carolina Panthers stats:http://www.jt-sw.com/football/pro/stats.nsf/Annual/1995-car

Heres the 2001 stats:http://www.jt-sw.com/football/pro/stats.nsf/Annual/2001-car

Considering they had a different head coach, no QB on the 1995 team took a snap for the 2001 team. No player from the 1995 team made a pass reception or a rushing attempt on the 2001 team, and nobody from the 1995 team made a sack on the 2001 team, (at least from what I see, I skimmed them quick so I may have missed a player or two, sue me) And maybe a few were still on the team, but just didnt play in 1995 so they werent able to record any stats, I cant be bothered to go through rosters atm. I think its safe to say the team Polian built doesnt even have a hand in the 2001 1-15 record, since obviously very very few of those players were even still with the team. Consider yourself corrected. As I said, 3 year contracts. And since this seems to be the ONLY argument for why Polian isnt a good NFL GM...well I think that pretty much castrates your argument.

PS. Even comparing the stats for 1997 (polians last year in Carolina) to the 2001 stats looks like you're examining two entirely different teams..litteraly.

http://www.jt-sw.com/football/pro/stats.nsf/Annual/1997-car

So again..what point was it you were trying to make?

And considering he took a team who in his first year as President went 3-13..then turned them around to a 13-3 record the next..by making the right draft picks..taking manning..then passing on ricky williams, picked reggie wayne instead of going for the defense, then to build the defense drafted guys like freeney and bob sanders...Its obvious why Indy chose to give him the job based on his success in carolina...and he proved them right.

 

[CheerforTom]

One is famous for complaining about everything that doesn't go his way to the media and NFL. One is sought after by aspiring NFL clubs who want to take the next step to a championship level.

That's all it takes for me, gentlemen.

 

[Hoodie23]

First of all about the Panthers, I didn't know one NFC title game appearance makes you a superbowl contender. The Colts and Pats have been superbowl contenders, but the Panthers were a one hit wonder who were missrable for years thanks to Polian's cap attrocities. the Buffalo teams were great and after all is said and done (I'm not sure who Polian drafted exactly) they may have about 5-6 players in the HOF but where's the hardware? Also, who was in the AFC during those years? The Chiefs had some nice teams but were coached by Marty in the playoffs. Marino and Elway were there but their teams were misserably soft. The Oilers were perhaps the only impressive competition to speak of.

All that being said, there is no argument here. Piolli helped build a dynasty in an era where it's virtualy impossible, and that is pretty much all that needs to be said.

 

[Hoodie23]

I'll just focus on this part of your thread, since the other few paragraphs seem to consister of "wahhh you flamed me first" and has nothing to do with football, so Im gonna ignore it.

Heres a link to 1995 Carolina Panthers stats:http://www.jt-sw.com/football/pro/stats.nsf/Annual/1995-car

Heres the 2001 stats:http://www.jt-sw.com/football/pro/stats.nsf/Annual/2001-car

Considering they had a different head coach, no QB on the 1995 team took a snap for the 2001 team. No player from the 1995 team made a pass reception or a rushing attempt on the 2001 team, and nobody from the 1995 team made a sack on the 2001 team, (at least from what I see, I skimmed them quick so I may have missed a player or two, sue me) And maybe a few were still on the team, but just didnt play in 1995 so they werent able to record any stats, I cant be bothered to go through rosters atm. I think its safe to say the team Polian built doesnt even have a hand in the 2001 1-15 record, since obviously very very few of those players were even still with the team. Consider yourself corrected. As I said, 3 year contracts. And since this seems to be the ONLY argument for why Polian isnt a good NFL GM...well I think that pretty much castrates your argument.

PS. Even comparing the stats for 1997 (polians last year in Carolina) to the 2001 stats looks like you're examining two entirely different teams..litteraly.

http://www.jt-sw.com/football/pro/stats.nsf/Annual/1997-car

So again..what point was it you were trying to make?

And considering he took a team who in his first year as President went 3-13..then turned them around to a 13-3 record the next..by making the right draft picks..taking manning..then passing on ricky williams, picked reggie wayne instead of going for the defense, then to build the defense drafted guys like freeney and bob sanders...Its obvious why Indy chose to give him the job based on his success in carolina...and he proved them right.

Dungy had nothing to do with this defensive turnaround? Also, Polian has everything to do with what happened in Carolina. His dealings in free agency left the team cap strapped for years and as for the Manning pick, Matt Millen would have made that pick. Now Brady on the other hand nobody else knew about.

 

[bradmahn]

I'll just focus on this part of your thread, since the other few paragraphs seem to consister of "wahhh you flamed me first" and has nothing to do with football, so Im gonna ignore it.

Heres a link to 1995 Carolina Panthers stats:http://www.jt-sw.com/football/pro/stats.nsf/Annual/1995-car

Heres the 2001 stats:http://www.jt-sw.com/football/pro/stats.nsf/Annual/2001-car

Considering they had a different head coach, no QB on the 1995 team took a snap for the 2001 team. No player from the 1995 team made a pass reception or a rushing attempt on the 2001 team, and nobody from the 1995 team made a sack on the 2001 team, (at least from what I see, I skimmed them quick so I may have missed a player or two, sue me) And maybe a few were still on the team, but just didnt play in 1995 so they werent able to record any stats, I cant be bothered to go through rosters atm. I think its safe to say the team Polian built doesnt even have a hand in the 2001 1-15 record, since obviously very very few of those players were even still with the team. Consider yourself corrected. As I said, 3 year contracts. And since this seems to be the ONLY argument for why Polian isnt a good NFL GM...well I think that pretty much castrates your argument.

PS. Even comparing the stats for 1997 (polians last year in Carolina) to the 2001 stats looks like you're examining two entirely different teams..litteraly.

http://www.jt-sw.com/football/pro/stats.nsf/Annual/1997-car

So again..what point was it you were trying to make?

And considering he took a team who in his first year as President went 3-13..then turned them around to a 13-3 record the next..by making the right draft picks..taking manning..then passing on ricky williams, picked reggie wayne instead of going for the defense, then to build the defense drafted guys like freeney and bob sanders...Its obvious why Indy chose to give him the job based on his success in carolina...and he proved them right.

Here is where you and I, among many other things, disagree. You see it that, because none of Polian's 1995 picks were significant impediments to the 1-15 team (the fourth year after his departure, which, btw, would be the year after all the three year contracts he negotiated in '97 would have ended), that absolves any and all blame that may be accredited to him. Well, '95 aside, many players he drafted were on that '01 team, which, according to your logic, would make him at least partly responsible. I feel that, because a good deal of the star players Polian drafted flamed out for various reasons, and were not on the '01 team, that would also make him responsible. He was supposed to create a core group of guys who could sustain that team, and the players he chose were alcoholics, "murderers," and had other character issues that impeded their play on the field and led to their release (creating serious problems for the franchise).

Okay, enough of the 1-15 season, you still fail to address the 4-12 season that the Panthers had the season after Polian left, a 4-12 season with players that Polian drafted, signed and decided would be best for the franchise and its future.

Pioli has (along with BB) built teams that are year in and year out Super Bowl contenders. He has been the personnel man for 3 Super Bowl champions (three in four, a feat that will probably never be achieved again). He has been on losing teams, but never with the authority that he has in New England, where he has had one sub-.500 team. He is also one of the top cap managers in all the NFL, where Polian has to scramble to provide room just for signing draft picks, let alone free agents.

I suppose it all depends on what you consider more important, being second best (assuming the Super Bowl loser is the second best team in the conference) four years in a row, or being the top team in three. I'd prefer the latter.

 

[Nick25]

Here is where you and I, among many other things, disagree. You see it that, because none of Polian's 1995 picks were significant impediments to the 1-15 team (the fourth year after his departure, which, btw, would be the year after all the three year contracts he negotiated in '97 would have ended), that absolves any and all blame that may be accredited to him. Well, '95 aside, many players he drafted were on that '01 team, which, according to your logic, would make him at least partly responsible. I feel that, because a good deal of the star players Polian drafted flamed out for various reasons, and were not on the '01 team, that would also make him responsible. He was supposed to create a core group of guys who could sustain that team, and the players he chose were alcoholics, "murderers," and had other character issues that impeded their play on the field and led to their release (creating serious problems for the franchise).

Okay, enough of the 1-15 season, you still fail to address the 4-12 season that the Panthers had the season after Polian left, a 4-12 season with players that Polian drafted, signed and decided would be best for the franchise and its future.

Pioli has (along with BB) built teams that are year in and year out Super Bowl contenders. He has been the personnel man for 3 Super Bowl champions (three in four, a feat that will probably never be achieved again). He has been on losing teams, but never with the authority that he has in New England, where he has had one sub-.500 team. He is also one of the top cap managers in all the NFL, where Polian has to scramble to provide room just for signing draft picks, let alone free agents.

I suppose it all depends on what you consider more important, being second best (assuming the Super Bowl loser is the second best team in the conference) four years in a row, or being the top team in three. I'd prefer the latter.

Jimmy Johnson also had a 1-15 season..I guess that makes him a terrible coach and makes his 3 super bowl titles all for not..since thats all it takes to discredit someone in the NFL in your eyes. (which btw..is the exact number of super bowl wins BB has, which other coaches have suprassed) And moreover Tom Landry is mostly responsible for that 1-15 season under Johnson.

Polian wasnt brought there to build a franchise that could sustain itself for a decade..he was brought there to build the franchise into competition as fast as possible. Thats what the owner was shooting for when the team was in its infancy, thats what Polian delivered, and surpased expectations. Which led to his new position with the colts (which was a promotion), where he also succeeded.

BB was taking over a team built by BP that had already reached a super bowl. How can even someone as idiotic as you compare that to building an expansion team from ground up? You're a ******.

And Polian's team won the super bowl this year..and BB's did not..Ill take the latter, and not the former.

I kept it short and sweet here...because you havent pulled a decent point out of your ass yet.

 

[Nick25]

Dungy had nothing to do with this defensive turnaround? Also, Polian has everything to do with what happened in Carolina. His dealings in free agency left the team cap strapped for years and as for the Manning pick, Matt Millen would have made that pick. Now Brady on the other hand nobody else knew about.

Who hired Dungy? And no, he has nothing to do with the Panther's woe's later on after he had already left, I've proven this in a plethera of ways...such as his players werent there on the team, the same thing happend in jacksonville, etc. Im afraid simply stating "he was at fault" doesnt come close to qualifying as a rebuttle, and is futile at this point. GG.

 

[Nick25]

Here is where you and I, among many other things, disagree. You see it that, because none of Polian's 1995 picks were significant impediments to the 1-15 team (the fourth year after his departure, which, btw, would be the year after all the three year contracts he negotiated in '97 would have ended), that absolves any and all blame that may be accredited to him.

By the way, yes that does absolve him of any blame. It fell on the next GM to sustain the progress Polian had started off with, and they failed in that. Besides..its an expansion team, which has been pointed out at length. Also one that made the NFC championship in its second year in the league. To expect Polian to do anything more would be expecting him to build an expansion team that made it to the super bowl in 3 years time going against teams that have exsisted for 60x as long. Again, how stupid can you be anyways?