Bill Polian vs. Scott Pioli - Which one is better?

[Hoodie23]

Who hired Dungy? And no, he has nothing to do with the Panther's woe's later on after he had already left, I've proven this in a plethera of ways...such as his players werent there on the team, the same thing happend in jacksonville, etc. Im afraid simply stating "he was at fault" doesnt come close to qualifying as a rebuttle, and is futile at this point. GG.

You may have a point but simply saying the players he signed werent there is also futile. If all the veteran signings he made didn't leave behind alot of dead money then you'd be right but I highly doubt it. If that didn't leave them cap strapped, please explain to me what did?

 

[Nick25]

You may have a point but simply saying the players he signed werent there is also futile. If all the veteran signings he made didn't leave behind alot of dead money then you'd be right but I highly doubt it. If that didn't leave them cap strapped, please explain to me what did?

You fail to remember the way the Panther's roster was built, primarily through the expansion draft. Team's werent going to allow young players with high potential be exposed to being drafted...they would however allow veteran guy's who were nearing the end of their prime years go unprotected. The Panther's were built up by taking player's that other team's deemed expendable enough for one reason or another.

They also had to rely on free agency. The Panthers wanted to compete straight away...so they may have had to throw money at guys to get them to come to an expansion team. I dont see anything wrong with that.

The panther's did the best with what they had at the time..they put a quality product on the feild..and had some problems later on, due to the circumstances. You couldnt have found anyone to do a better job than polian, not even close.

And I highly doubt they were in cap hell if they were able to sign Reggie White, Eric Swann, and Lee Woodall in 1999, the owner just has a fetish with going after high priced free agent who are past their prime or nearing it to fill gap's..as that trend continued well after Polian was gone. He did after all hire George Seifert as well..and in that 1-15 season under Seifert...it was after they released Steve Beurlien and chose to rely on Chris Wienke..I guess this can be blamed on Polian..even though he was with Indianapolis at the time.

 

[Hoodie23]

You fail to remember the way the Panther's roster was built, primarily through the expansion draft. Team's werent going to allow young players with high potential be exposed to being drafted...they would however allow veteran guy's who were nearing the end of their prime years go unprotected. The Panther's were built up by taking player's that other team's deemed expendable enough for one reason or another.

The panther's did the best with what they had at the time..they put a quality product on the feild..and had some problems later on, due to the circumstances. You couldnt have found anyone to do a better job than polian, not even close.

Yes I could and all I'd have to do is look down south in Jacksonville, who were better for a longer time, got more of their stars through the draft and faced their cap struggles far later then the Panthers. Look at the Jaguars stars on those teams. Brunell-trade, Taylor-draft, Boselli-draft, Brakens-draft, Darius-draft. I'm not sure who they took in expansion draft but if it was Jimmy Smith and McCardell, that sure worked out a hell of a whole lot better then anyone the Panthers took in the expansion draft.

 

[Nick25]

Yes I could and all I'd have to do is look down south in Jacksonville, who were better for a longer time, got more of their stars through the draft and faced their cap struggles far later then the Panthers. Look at the Jaguars stars on those teams. Brunell-trade, Taylor-draft, Boselli-draft, Brakens-draft, Darius-draft. I'm not sure who they took in expansion draft but if it was Jimmy Smith and McCardell, that sure worked out a hell of a whole lot better then anyone the Panthers took in the expansion draft.

And yet they went 14-2 in 1999 and have made the playoff's once since, and the Panthers have been to a super bowl?

The panthers won 26 games in the 3 years under Polian..the jaguars won 24 in the same stretch..who did better in the expansion draft again? Remember what I said about 3 year contracts?

The Jaguar's suffered the same collapse as the panthers..for the same reason..it only took them a couple of years longer.

Anyways...this is just blatant fan-boism..I understand your ass hurt that a team built by Polian shredded your teams 18 point lead...I know it must sting..oh well..cry more.

 

[Hoodie23]

And yet they went 14-2 in 1999 and have made the playoff's once since, and the Panthers have been to a super bowl?

The panthers won 26 games in the 3 years under Polian..the jaguars won 24 in the same stretch..who did better in the expansion draft again? Remember what I said about 3 year contracts?

The Jaguar's suffered the same collapse as the panthers..for the same reason..it only took them a couple of years longer.

Anyways...this is just blatant fan-boism..I understand your ass hurt that a team built by Polian shredded your teams 18 point lead...I know it must sting..oh well..cry more.

Well you guys kept kept swinging in the dark and eventually you landed a punch, good job. Now we're ting about what happened since 99? What does Polian have to do with the Panthers team that made the superbowl besides the fact that you're shifting the argument to a differant time then what we were originally discussing, to make it more convenient for you. Face it, the Jaguars, since their first year to 99 before the cap caught up with them, were more successful then the Panthers under your precious Polian. The Panthers did better the expansion draft, reached the championship game and fell appart. The Jaguars built a team in a smarter way and lasted till 99.

 

[Nick25]

Well you guys kept kept swinging in the dark and eventually you landed a punch, good job. Now we're ting about what happened since 99? What does Polian have to do with the Panthers team that made the superbowl besides the fact that you're shifting the argument to a differant time then what we were originally discussing, to make it more convenient for you. Face it, the Jaguars, since their first year to 99 before the cap caught up with them, were more successful then the Panthers under your precious Polian. The Panthers did better the expansion draft, reached the championship game and fell appart. The Jaguars built a team in a smarter way and lasted till 99.

"The panthers won 26 games in the 3 years under Polian..the jaguars won 24 in the same stretch..who did better in the expansion draft again? Remember what I said about 3 year contracts?"

Your argument=dead...like the pats dynasty.

 

[bradmahn]

Jimmy Johnson also had a 1-15 season..I guess that makes him a terrible coach and makes his 3 super bowl titles all for not..since thats all it takes to discredit someone in the NFL in your eyes. (which btw..is the exact number of super bowl wins BB has, which other coaches have suprassed) And moreover Tom Landry is mostly responsible for that 1-15 season under Johnson.

Polian wasnt brought there to build a franchise that could sustain itself for a decade..he was brought there to build the franchise into competition as fast as possible. Thats what the owner was shooting for when the team was in its infancy, thats what Polian delivered, and surpased expectations. Which led to his new position with the colts (which was a promotion), where he also succeeded.

BB was taking over a team built by BP that had already reached a super bowl. How can even someone as idiotic as you compare that to building an expansion team from ground up? You're a ******.

And Polian's team won the super bowl this year..and BB's did not..Ill take the latter, and not the former.

I kept it short and sweet here...because you havent pulled a decent point out of your ass yet.

Alright, buddy, I was trying to be polite, but I give up. You are nothing but a moron. Okay, to pick out some points in this past thread that are the antithesis of what you have been posting since the onset of this "debate":

Bill Parcells receives the credit for building the Patriots team that Belichick took over in 2000, despite the fact that Parcells (a) wasn't the main personnel man when he was with the Patriots and (b) HAD BEEN GONE SINCE THE END OF THE '96 SEASON. At this time, as you have mentioned in so many other posts when it is beneficial to your argument, contracts were for three years.

Now, Jimmy Johnson's 1-15 team was in his first season and, as you mentioned, with players that were there from the previous regime (which is the regime at fault in this case). If, in this case, you credit Landry with that 1-15 season, who receives the blame for the 4-12 season of the Panthers the year after Polian left?

And, Polian's faults would also be forgiven if he was the creator of 3 Super Bowl winning teams.

I hate to pull this crap, but for a douche like you I will.

"Polian wasnt brought there to build a franchise that could sustain itself for a decade..he was brought there to build the franchise into competition as fast as possible. Thats what the owner was shooting for when the team was in its infancy, thats what Polian delivered, and surpased expectations."

Were you there? Do you know that that is all that Polian was brought in to do?

Just because teams are able to throw money at free agents does not mean that they are not in cap hell, just look at the Washington Redskins, who have had to struggle to make room for signings, yet still throw money at all the big free agents. You yourself said that the owner of the Panthers wanted to do just that, so cap situation would not hinder him either way if he could sign them to a deal it would be done, regardless of the repercussions (which a GM like Polian is supposed to guard against, yet still fails to do so in Carolina and in Indy).

Hey, it's cool, just ignore the parts of posts that are valid arguments against your opinion, like this one:

"Well, '95 aside, many players he drafted were on that '01 team, which, according to your logic, would make him at least partly responsible. I feel that, because a good deal of the star players Polian drafted flamed out for various reasons, and were not on the '01 team, that would also make him responsible. He was supposed to create a core group of guys who could sustain that team, and the players he chose were alcoholics, "murderers," and had other character issues that impeded their play on the field and led to their release (creating serious problems for the franchise)."

That would still give him blame for the '01 season, and the others that followed his departure.

As to whether or not the Panthers or Jags were better in their first 3 seasons in the league; it doesn't surprise me that a Colts fan would measure the success of a franchise in terms of regular season wins. Not only did the Jags also get to the Championship game in their second season, but they also returned to the postseason the following season. And the season after that. And the one after that. I'd say they did the better job in building an expansion team, not the Panthers.

You cannot participate in a debate of this nature without resorting to ad hominem attacks. And it is comments like this that make me question the high level of intelligence that you so wondrously feel you possess.

"Again, how stupid can you be anyways?"

Anyways? Anyways isn't a word, I believe the word you are trying to use here is anyway, but even so, why the hell would you use it here? You are an ass who is pretty full of himself for no apparent reasons.

Now you can pick apart what you would like from this post, and address the points that you can "easily" refute, and ignore the others. And then say something about my intelligence.