Back to back GOOD wins

[Brownfan80]

So, what are you trying to prove, that YOU are a troublemaker, as most know.

You have a serious problem that needs attention as soon as possible. It's called NEMitis..... go get it fixed.

Pointing out that you have a long history of anger issues is troublemaking? Sorry, I don't see it that way. History is what it is NEM, regardless of what you'd like to remember.

 

[pats1]

So, what are you trying to prove, that YOU are a troublemaker, as most know.

17,372 and every one of your posts gets better, NEM, I must say.

 

[tombonneau]

Thanks for derailing an otherwise good post, guys. In future, I would appreciate if you kept your schoolyard namecalling to PMs.

TIA.

Back to topic ... someone mentioned that all they need to do is look at game log and zone in on turnovers to see who won the game. This is pretty spot-on.

I would take it one step further and say there is about a 95% correlation to whoever wins the POTO battle (Points Off Turnovers) wins the game.

It is not enough to simply get more turnovers than the other team, you must capitalize on said turnovers. This is why the Pats were able to sneak by the Bears: even though they turned the ball over more, they were able to to more with their turnovers than Chicago did with theirs.

But yes, if Pats clean up the TOs, they have a solid chance for #4.

 

[Seneschal2]

I don't necessarily agree with NEM, but I think he has made some fair and arguable points - and those of you who disagree don't need to be taking it to such a personal place. Grow a little. You can disagree and not be jerks about it.

Patsox, I'm with you completely on maintaining peace and harmony but you know what? AJ starts an interesting and worthy topic and the very first response I read is this insulting garbage:

You need to get a grasp on reality because you certainly dont have it, as of now. You have played out your little game making people believe that you know more than you really know, far too long and people are now beginning to get wise to you.

---

This type of post deserves no support whatsoever. I'm offended just reading it.

And this guy has the nerve to call someone else a "troublemaker of the highest degree"?!

 

[SoonerPatriot]

I agree with aj. I don't think his "manic-depressive" comment is directed at ANYONE who criticizes, NEM. I think it's directed at those folks who tend to swing wildly with a pendulum off its rocker - good or bad. There have been more of those types the last 18 months or so, and they provide nothing but traffic and hysterical congestion on this site.

The problem with AJ and his ilk is that there is no room for middle ground with them. You either love EACH and EVERYTHING the team and organization does, or you hate each and everything they do. In fairness, NEM is the yin to his yang. Both are extremists.

For instance, I don't have a whole lot of issues with the play calling. I'm becoming pretty enthusiastic about Caldwell. Dillon has got his role and Maroney his.

The defense is gritty as hell. We're a little banged up, but Rodney will be back when it matters. The D-Line is second to none. LBs are solid, but a little thin now.

There are some things I don't like, for instance our turnover and penalty epidemic. Having been around a lot of coaches in my day, I've yet to meet one who would be content with turning the ball over 8 times in two weeks. I've yet to find one who is happy with a 10 penalty game. So in that sense, we have some real problems that probably should be dealt with before the playoffs.

We can't help the injuries. I believe BB did his best before the season to field the deepest team possible. I'm not sure if this is something that as fans, we should be doing a lot of hand wringing over.

This is pretty middle of the road viewpoint (something a lot of other members of this board shown me the value of recently). In AJ's book, if you think 5 turnovers and 10 penalties in a sloppy win over a 2-10 team is a problem, you're manic depressive.

 

[Ring 6]

Wow. I cant wait to get some time to respond to the posts in this thread. So much to respond back to. Hopefully soon.

 

[Ring 6]

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyJohnson
I consider the last 2 games GOOD wins for the Pats. I certainly don't expect the general opinion of this board to agree with this, but I seem to have a different critieria than the "manic-depressive crowd". (The manic depressive crowd is that group of fans who overreact positively to good days---runing the table talk was common a week ago--then overreact negatively to winning, if it isn't a dominant effort. My favorites are the post that CONCLUDE faliure in the playoffs based on a win they didn't like, and the 'if this didnt happen, we could have lost, or if we were playing someone else we would have lost)


Sorry, but that's a lot of crap. It is offensive to those who, while enjoying the win, are able to see both sides of the coin, the good with the bad. Calling them "manic depressive" is insulting to all of them, including myself. And, quite frankly I find it to be completely out of order, moreso coming from an, alleged, moderator of this forum. It is demeaning to many people who have views, and opinions, that although different than yours, are very welcome.

IF YOU DONT SEE THIS OVERALL TONE OF THIS BOARD AS MANIC-DEPRESSIVE (WHICH IS WHAT I SAID, NOT THAT INDIVIDUALS ARE) YOU ARENT PAYING ATTENTION. THE OVERALL TONE IS TOO POSITIVE OR TOO NEGATIVE, SWINGING WILDLY FROM GAME TO GAME.

My critieria in calling these good wins is very simple. Over the first 9 weeks of the season, we went 6-3, and lost 3 games that in past years it would have seemed we should have won. The #1 characteristic of the Champion Pats teams was making plays in the clutch, and KNOWING HOW TO WIN. After the 6-3 start the primary thing I felt this team lacked was that it hadn't learned how to win. Every team, every season needs to learn that. Some start closer than others because of returning core players who do know how to win, but every year has turnover to every team.
Lost on the media is that a TEAM is the sum of its parts. I bristle every time I hear "professional analysts" rate a team by naming their 3 best players, and conclude that is why they will win. Nothing could be further from the truth. The 20th-22nd best player (worst 3 starters) ultimatley has more to do with determining championships than the 3 best. (And by that I mean the gap between how good your 20-22nd is vs the other team) "Knowing how to win" isn't a function of your best players, it is a function of your 53 man roster.

These last 2 weeks, the Patriots have shown me that this version now seems to have learned how to win. When it comes down to Championships, the ability to win close games, regardless of the quality of the opponent correlates much more to success than blowing people out.

We see it every year. When the Pats are in the playoffs, we look at the opponent and one of the first analyses is have they beaten anyone good. i never remember ANYONE critiquing an opponent for ONLY beating team X by 7 points.

Other random thoughts.
Amazing that we criticize play calling when we score 28 points. That same criticism comes along with criticism of how plays are set up by the previous calls. To me, if you add up all of the play calls in the game, and they total 28 points, you did a good job. I could care less about the plays that didnt work so well if they set up others that got us 28 points. (and it would have been more without the turnovers)

You stilldont get it, and never will, because you let personalities get in the way of common sense. Sure, we scored 28 points, sure we won, but it came down to a couple of minutes at the end of the first half and a couple of minutes at the end of the fourth quarter... and we were constantly in a position where one mistake, one more mistake by our offense would have caused us to be in deeper than we were. And, that has happened far too often.

NEM, YOU CONTRADICT YOURSELF HERE. YOU CONSTATNLY TALK ABOUT HOW PLAYS ARE AFFECTED BY WHAT IS CALLED BEFORE, ONLY IN A NEGATIVE SENSE, BUT TOTALLY IGNORE THAT GOOD PLAYS HAVE BEEN SET UP BY THE ONES THAT CAME BEFORE AS WELL.
BOTTOMLINE, IF YOU TELL AN HC HIS OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR IS GOING TO CALL A GAME THAT RESULTS IN 28 POINTS AND A WIN, THE HC WILL NOT NEED TO ASK A SINGLE QUESTION BEFORE SAYING HE WILL TAKE THAT EVERY TIME.


Youjust dont get it. No one is complaing about homw many points we score, or if we win...it is that, on many occasions, games should not have been as close as they were , when one error could have meant defeat instead of a win... and that play calling had most of the reason we were in a slow cooker far too many times.You need to get a grasp on reality because you certainly dont have it, as of now. You have played out your little game making people believe that you know more than you really know, far too long and people are now beginning to get wise to you.

YOU HAVE BEEN SAYING THROUGH 3 SB TITLES THIS SAME TIRED LINE. I COULD CARE LESS IF THE WINS WERE EASIER, ONLY THAT THEY ARE WINS.
YOU WILL HAVE TO EXPLAIN THE LAST PART TO ME. HOW DO I MAKE PEOPLE BELIEVE I KNOW MORE THAN I DO IF I DONT KNOW IT. AM I A SVENGALI? WHO EXACTLY IS 'GETTING WISE' TO THIS FACT YOU JUST MADE UP?


I have read doom and gloom posts about how the D played this week. We allowed ONE TOUCHDOWN. That makes 14 in 12 games.
Somehow those doom and gloom posters point to our own turnovers as a reason for our imminent failure, yet give our defense no credit for forcing 5. Personally, I am fine with allowing less than 3 ypc to the other RB, having the other QB pass for 300 yards, but getting 3 picks, a fumble on a sack and allowing ONE TOUCHDOWN.

For the most part, people in here have given lots of credit to the defense, including myself. But, facts are, in the last game, Mike Martz completely outguessed or DC, time after time... and that happens to be a straight fact..and why shold nt posters say so...IT HAPPENED. PERIOD.


WE ALLOWED ONE TOUCHDOWN. IF ITS ALL ABOUT OC'S MARTZ WAS THE FAILURE ON SUNDAY, BECAUSE HE GOT ONE TD.

A curious question: It was mentioned many times during the game how the Lions have spent all season losing close games. If a team loses a lot of close games, why is it expected that you blow them out? Why wasnt a close win pretty much what was expected? There are very few blowouts in the NFL. If you wish to judge your team by their blowouts, go ahead, but you probably should root for the Colts from September to December, then shift over to the Pats in January.

Who did they lose these close games too? Teams far lesser than the Patriots, and they also LOST to the Cardinals.

WHY DOES THAT MATTER? MY POINT IS THAT LOSING A LOT OF GAMES DOESNT MEAN YOU DO OR SHOULD LOSE THEM BY A LOT. IF YOU LOSE TO A 2-10 TEAM YOU ARE DOING WORSE THAN EVERYONE ELSE, IF YOU BEAT THEM YOU ARE DOING WHAT EVERYONE ELSE DOES AND HOW MUCH YOU BEAT THEM BY IS PRETTY MEANINGLESS.

You are not quite as correct as you seem to think you are, and you are denegrating the opinons of a lot of people in here..... than you DOCTOR.

PUZZLING AGAIN. YOU IMPLY I THINK I AM MORE CORRECT THAN OTHER PEOPLE THINK THEY ARE WITH THEIR OPINIONS. HOW DO I DENGRATE ANYONES OPINION? THIS IS YOUR MOST TIRED LINE. WHEN YOU HAVE NO ANSWER YOU TELL PEOPLE THEY DONT ACCEPT OTHER PEOPLES OPINION. I NEVER DID THAT, I GAVE MINE, BUT APPARENTLY YOU DONT ACCEPT MINE. VERY ODD.

 

[Ring 6]

The players themselves feel they came out with "no energy" and "no emotion" at home against the worst team in the NFL, played "terribly" in an "embarrassing" performance, but escaped with a win. The fan is not only a cheerleader, but must analyze what he sees and react honestly. This attempt to pigeon-hole fans who offer legitimate criticism as "mentally unstable" is irresponsible. The sky IS NOT falling. The mistakes are correctable. All the more reason to discuss them.

I am not pigeon holing anyone, I am talking, as I made clear about the overall tone of the board.
I have no problem with talking about good and bad. I have a problem with extremes, especially when they change week to week.
I can see and discuss and accept every negative of that game. But the positives outweighed the negatives because it resulted in a win. My biggest issue is when CONCLUSIONS are drawn, such as when Kevin Jones gained 30 yards on a screen it proved we cant win a championship.

 

[Ring 6]

I agree with aj. I don't think his "manic-depressive" comment is directed at ANYONE who criticizes, NEM. I think it's directed at those folks who tend to swing wildly with a pendulum off its rocker - good or bad. There have been more of those types the last 18 months or so, and they provide nothing but traffic and hysterical congestion on this site.

Im not even sure its the same people, but the naysayers dominate the board when there is anything to complain about, and the positive people dominate when things go well for a week or 2.
There may be no manic depressive posters on the board, but the board as a whole is bipolar.

 

[Ring 6]

The ones who blindly blame McDaniels for everything, like you, yes.

Good comeback.
I keep wondering who all of these people are that agree with NEM. He keeps citing them, but I havent figured out who they are. Perhaps we could have a roll call?
I am sure my opinions offend anyone who agrees with NEM point of view. Please let me know who I am offending.

 

[Ring 6]

The problem with AJ and his ilk is that there is no room for middle ground with them. You either love EACH and EVERYTHING the team and organization does, or you hate each and everything they do. In fairness, NEM is the yin to his yang. Both are extremists.

For instance, I don't have a whole lot of issues with the play calling. I'm becoming pretty enthusiastic about Caldwell. Dillon has got his role and Maroney his.

The defense is gritty as hell. We're a little banged up, but Rodney will be back when it matters. The D-Line is second to none. LBs are solid, but a little thin now.

There are some things I don't like, for instance our turnover and penalty epidemic. Having been around a lot of coaches in my day, I've yet to meet one who would be content with turning the ball over 8 times in two weeks. I've yet to find one who is happy with a 10 penalty game. So in that sense, we have some real problems that probably should be dealt with before the playoffs.

We can't help the injuries. I believe BB did his best before the season to field the deepest team possible. I'm not sure if this is something that as fans, we should be doing a lot of hand wringing over.

This is pretty middle of the road viewpoint (something a lot of other members of this board shown me the value of recently). In AJ's book, if you think 5 turnovers and 10 penalties in a sloppy win over a 2-10 team is a problem, you're manic depressive.

Sooner,
I think you overexxagerate my position.
I dont think you love or hate everything they do.
I think you love or hate the cumullation of what they do.
Therefore, if overall they are right most of the time, they fall on the love side if they are wrong most of the time they fall on the hate side.
Idont expect BB to be right 100% of the time. It is a COMPETITVE GAME. For every decision you make, you have an opponent trying to make it wrong one.
If you are right 51% of the time you are good.
IMO, BB is right more than any coach in the NFL.
Because of that I have an extremely high level of confidence that he will correct what is wrong more often than any other HC.
I never expect everything to be perfect, not close to it. But if alot more is good than bad, I expect it to continue to get better, and I donwplay the bad, and focus on the good.

On the other, for example, when Pete Carroll was the HC, I thought he was bad. Most of my opinion focussed on the negative, because things were going to and did get worse.

Overall its about winning. If we 'win' 51% of the plays in every game and go 13-3, I am much happier than if we 'win' 90% of the plays in half the games, kill bad teams, but lose 7 games in a year. I absolutely believe that there are only 2 results of a game, win or lose, and how you got there is not a foreshadowing of the next game. My God, its the NFL and you can be incompetant in one phase on a given day then be dominant in it another day, even against a better opponent.
Show me some examples of close wins against bad teams being a trend of losing to better teams, and I'll listen but in 30 years of being an NFL fan, Ive seen zero evidence of it.

Finally, I tend to be extremely positive about the Pats over the last few years, not because I am a homer and wish it to be so, but because I am blessed with my favorite team being coached by THE coach whose philosophy, approach, style, etc are as close to what Ithink it should be as any Ive ever seen. How can I not have high hopes, when I agree almost 100% philosopichally with the way the team is being run.

If our HC was Tony Dungy, or Pete Carroll, or Mike Martz, or Herman Edwards, to name a few, I would be among the most outspoken NEGATIVE posters on the board. Not necessarily because of results, but because I disagree with the big picture, and would see success as fleeting, while with BB I see success as permanent, because it is based in the proper foudation.

 

[Ring 6]

Why bother. You are right in everything you ever post. You say so yourself. But whats the difference, we are all right in what we all post or else we wouldnt take the time to polst it. Except for all the manic depressives out here.

Someday, when I grow up, I hope to be just like you. That is, of course, if I ever get out of this manic depressive state that I am in.

Thanks for pointing out I am always right. I never knew I was, thats why I have never said so. You however are expert on it because whenever anyone disagrees with you, you clear it all up by telling them you are always right.

I think at your age growing up isnt in the cards.

Sorry if I struck a nerve with manic-depressive, it was only a term to describe the up and down nature of the board, not a diagnosis.

If I were to diagnose, for you I'd lean toward paranoia over manic-depressive.

 

[Ring 6]

It's called the "silent MAJORITY."

Now I am truly confused. You keep telling us many people post the same opinion as you.
I ask who they are, and you say they are silent.
If they are silent, how could youknow they are a majority.

We certainly disagree a lot, but I must admit you are much, much better than me at talking in circles.

 

[Flying Fungi]

I look at it very objectively.

If this were a movie, Harrison Ford would play you in 'Arizona Jones And The Search For Objectivity'.

Forget 'Fan Of The Year'.

You are a shoe-in for 'Senile Crank Of The Year'.

Someone needs to take your internet away.

 

[Brownfan80]

Now I am truly confused. You keep telling us many people post the same opinion as you.
I ask who they are, and you say they are silent.
If they are silent, how could youknow they are a majority.

We certainly disagree a lot, but I must admit you are much, much better than me at talking in circles.

If we had a 'clapping wildly and applauding' smiley, I'd use it here.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Sorry, but that's a lot of crap. It is offensive to those who, while enjoying the win, are able to see both sides of the coin, the good with the bad. Calling them "manic depressive" is insulting to all of them, including myself. And, quite frankly I find it to be completely out of order, moreso coming from an, alleged, moderator of this forum. It is demeaning to many people who have views, and opinions, that although different than yours, are very welcome.
-----
You stilldont get it, and never will, because you let personalities get in the way of common sense. Sure, we scored 28 points, sure we won, but it came down to a couple of minutes at the end of the first half and a couple of minutes at the end of the fourth quarter... and we were constantly in a position where one mistake, one more mistake by our offense would have caused us to be in deeper than we were. And, that has happened far too often.

Youjust dont get it. No one is complaing about homw many points we score, or if we win...it is that, on many occasions, games should not have been as close as they were , when one error could have meant defeat instead of a win... and that play calling had most of the reason we were in a slow cooker far too many times.You need to get a grasp on reality because you certainly dont have it, as of now. You have played out your little game making people believe that you know more than you really know, far too long and people are now beginning to get wise to you.
-----
For the most part, people in here have given lots of credit to the defense, including myself. But, facts are, in the last game, Mike Martz completely outguessed or DC, time after time... and that happens to be a straight fact..and why shold nt posters say so...IT HAPPENED. PERIOD.
-----
Who did they lose these close games too? Teams far lesser than the Patriots, and they also LOST to the Cardinals.

You are not quite as correct as you seem to think you are, and you are denegrating the opinons of a lot of people in here..... than you DOCTOR.

Edit: BTW, ANY win is a GOOD win.

You are so full of sh!t with that comment it is actually funny. You are the troublemaker, you are the instigator and you lok to start every time you decide to post in this forum. You can take it, ans shove it, because to me, you are nothing, absolutely nothing. You have given me grief day after day, and quite frankly, I have had it with your crap and l;your freaking lies...Go back to the other site you are one troublemaker and instigator of the highest kind... Have a nice day. You dont know shi!t aboiut me and you never will, and quite frankly, Iam twice the human being, twice the intellect, and twice the football fan that yuo willever be. You are NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING. Get lost, you dont even deserve to be here. NOTHING, aBSOLUTELY noitthin BUT AN INSTIGATOR OF TROUBLE..GO BACK TO THE OTHER S SITE WHER YOU CAN SPOUT ALL THE VULGARITIES YOU WANT..You are invisible now, youdont exist.
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One last thing, because youpick and choose what you want ...when did i ever say i make drive charts? stop putting words into my mouth that werent said..I SAID I CHART THE GAMES...do ytou see the word DRIVE in there? Now you have done it again, interpreted something WRONG, as usual, and made a case outy of it. STOP THE LIES, YOU ARE LTHE FREAKIN LIAR, NOT ME...Get it tt right or just shut the hell up with your LIES...thats all you do is LIE...and you make it sound like fact. YOU LIE ALLTHE TIME...
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Once again you dont have a clue what you are talking about or what I said. In fact, every person who knows me, from the Vine, sees me charting every play of every game, with notes and comments.... but you know better, whenin fact you are nothing but a big mouth with no knowlege at all.
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Again, you have no knowledge about what you are saying, as usual. I have been involved in more debate, anbd discussion, over the yerars than you even have a clue about. You are so full of crap it is actually funny at times. You havent got a clue as to what agressive or abusive behavior is, and yuou are one of the ones that throws it out like no one else. Why dont you just go back to your other little forum where you can be obscene, vulgar and everyone thinkis it is cool. I, and most long time posters over here think quite the opposite. Your kind are the kind that always looks to blame others for what you instigated.

Yourhe instigator in almost everything thaty starts the trouble here. You follow me around, from site to site, and in your little covert manner, you just can 't help but mention the name NEM. Quite frankly I feel kind of nice about that, knowing that I bug you so much that you cant control yourself and you feel the need to come here and post all the crap that you do.

It is kind of a nice warm fuzzy feeling that you give me, knowing that it bothers you so much that you cant containyourself, both here, and over at the other place....

But, as time goes by, I wil have been here long before you, and I willbe here longf after you become a part of history.

Preach all you want, spread your vile lies, and false rumors about me, most people know you for what you are, a troublemaker of the highest degree.

Am I outspoken? You bet your ass I am. Do I believe I am right in most things that I post? You are damned right I believe it, no different than anyone else who posts something here because that is what a forum is all about, to post something that you believe to be true, and then to debate and discuss it... only its not me that initiates the name calling, contrary to what you would like to believe, and most people know it.... including Ian.

I respond in kind, and believe me, in your case, I really dont have to waste my time....But I felt that you needed a little come downing, because, quite frankly, you arent even close to my knowledge, and understanding of this game.... once again, contrary to what you think, or believe.

I just get amused reading your personal attack garbage, which you love to throw around, in such a covert manner.

One of these days you may grow up, but I doubt it. Have a nice evening.

Respond away Nemmy, I'm sure your ignorance will continue to amuse me and others. I really appreciate your effort to share your keen insight into the game - too bad you need to hijack other's threads to respond to them.