Assessing BB's drafting

[Fencer]

2006 and 2007 were the worst draft for any nfl team. Disregarding trades, the Pats have 1 player left from those drafts. That is terrible drafting.

David Thomas and Gostowski were good picks in 2006. Thomas was just a bad cut. O'Callaghan was a good pick too, actually, albeit at the JAG level. And Maroney had solid stats his first two years.

As for 2007 -- that was just a terrible draft class. The Patriots did better in it than most.

 

[TheSolderKing]

Then, when you add Price seemingly outplaying him in camp and exhibition games, I think the writing was on the wall for Mr. Tate.

this ....and, the new kickoff rule practically made Tate obsolete as a KR

this guy isn't telling Jokes he speaks the truth

 

[TheSolderKing]

BB's poor round has been rd 2. It is unfortunate, but overall he drafts extremely well. The Draft is a crap-shoot Luck is needed more than you know

 

[Fencer]

BB's poor round has been rd 2.

Matt Light, Sebastian Vollmer, Deion Branch, Patrick Chung, Brandon Spikes, ...

Actually, it's Round 3 that's been bad. Nobody out of that round has been better than a JAG starter, and there haven't been many of those. (Kaczur, Hobbs, and who else?) Round 4 has been far better in absolute terms (Asante, Gostowski, Green, one or two JAG starter RTs). Round 5 has been at least a little better just because of Koppen. Round 6 had that guy named Brady. Round 7 had Cassell and some JAG starters.

 

[DaBruinz]

He's been good, but not great. I'd still probably take him over anyone in the league, but that aura of "Belichick the Mastermind Talent Evaluator" has worn off with some poor drafts from 06-08 and some poor signings.

The drafts from 06-08 killed this team. To get virtually nothing out of Wheatley, Crable, Meriweather, Maroney, and Chad Jackson set the team back. 06-08 was a key period for this team to try to reload while it still had veteran talent.

I didn't bother reading once you included Meriweather and Maroney there. The Pats got 4 years out of Meriweather and 3 out of Maroney... Claiming that drafting them set the Patriots back is just stupid.

What you also totally discount is that 2007 was a horrible draft for the entire league, for all intents and purposes. So to act like only the Patriots were affected is just sillyness.

What people like yourself fail to acknowledge is that the Patriots have not had a losing season under Belichick despite those "poor" drafts. In fact, just 2 years after the "poor" 2008 draft the Pats went 14-2.

2006 -
Maroney - provided 3 slightly above average years in 4 for the Pats
Jackson - Bust
Thomas - Provided 2 seasons as the #2/#3 TE for the Pats. Has been a solid #2 for New Orleans.
Mills - Pats tried to stash him on the PS, but he was picked up by Minnesota as an F.U. to Belichick.
Gostkowski - Been a top 5 kicker in the league.
O'Callaghan - Basically a JAG. Concussions curtailed his stay with the Pats.
Mincey - didn't take TC seriously and "thought he'd be given a year to learn the system".
Stevenson - below average center..
LeKevin Smith - Was with the Pats for 3 years, 2 on the PS..
Willie Andrews - Spent 2 years as one of the top Gunners in the league.. His career was derailed by drugs, domestic abuse, and a gun charge..

2007 - Meriweather - 4 years with the team
The rest - nothing major
* - This draft provided Moss who gave them 3 good/great years and Welker who has also provided the Pats with 4 good/great years

2008 -
Mayo - Really came into his own last year. He picked up a lot of slack from the injury depleted Defensive Line.
Wheatley - got derailed by injuring his left wrist and never was the same.
Crable - Injured too much
O'Connell - Attitude. A McDaniels binky???
Wilhite - 3 solid years.
Slater - The guy everyone has loved to hate on. He's been a fixture on special teams and seems to have improved his skills somewhat as potentially a deep threat receiver..
Ruud - Injured and released..

The drafts weren't nearly as bad as people make them out to have been.. Were they great? Nope.

 

[LesPaul]

I didn't bother reading once you included Meriweather and Maroney there. The Pats got 4 years out of Meriweather and 3 out of Maroney... Claiming that drafting them set the Patriots back is just stupid.

What you also totally discount is that 2007 was a horrible draft for the entire league, for all intents and purposes. So to act like only the Patriots were affected is just sillyness.

What people like yourself fail to acknowledge is that the Patriots have not had a losing season under Belichick despite those "poor" drafts. In fact, just 2 years after the "poor" 2008 draft the Pats went 14-2.

2006 -
Maroney - provided 3 slightly above average years in 4 for the Pats
Jackson - Bust
Thomas - Provided 2 seasons as the #2/#3 TE for the Pats. Has been a solid #2 for New Orleans.
Mills - Pats tried to stash him on the PS, but he was picked up by Minnesota as an F.U. to Belichick.
Gostkowski - Been a top 5 kicker in the league.
O'Callaghan - Basically a JAG. Concussions curtailed his stay with the Pats.
Mincey - didn't take TC seriously and "thought he'd be given a year to learn the system".
Stevenson - below average center..
LeKevin Smith - Was with the Pats for 3 years, 2 on the PS..
Willie Andrews - Spent 2 years as one of the top Gunners in the league.. His career was derailed by drugs, domestic abuse, and a gun charge..

2007 - Meriweather - 4 years with the team
The rest - nothing major
* - This draft provided Moss who gave them 3 good/great years and Welker who has also provided the Pats with 4 good/great years

2008 -
Mayo - Really came into his own last year. He picked up a lot of slack from the injury depleted Defensive Line.
Wheatley - got derailed by injuring his left wrist and never was the same.
Crable - Injured too much
O'Connell - Attitude. A McDaniels binky???
Wilhite - 3 solid years.
Slater - The guy everyone has loved to hate on. He's been a fixture on special teams and seems to have improved his skills somewhat as potentially a deep threat receiver..
Ruud - Injured and released..

The drafts weren't nearly as bad as people make them out to have been.. Were they great? Nope.

Thinking they were good draft picks shows a total lack of intelligence

 

[LesPaul]

David Thomas and Gostowski were good picks in 2006. Thomas was just a bad cut. O'Callaghan was a good pick too, actually, albeit at the JAG level. And Maroney had solid stats his first two years.

As for 2007 -- that was just a terrible draft class. The Patriots did better in it than most.

Only having one player still on your team after 2 drafts and 19 players drafted is atrocius and embaressing.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

No I really wasn't trying to argue anything with you, simply pointing out that he played a position that was particularly deep this year which probably hastened his departure as much as anything else. I mean if he was drafted by the Rams he probably makes that team this year right? I was just pointing out that consistent quality teams like the Pats etc. will have more "misses" due to the quality of their rosters.

Let's not forget the change in the KO rules that—regardless of your opinion of his KO skills—could not have helped him, either.

 

[patchick]

Given that the Pats pick late in the round every year, I think they've done a tremendous job of finding young impact players.

Consider that six Patriots drafted since 2004 received Pro Bowl or All-Pro honors last year. Looking at the other teams with comparable draft position over that period, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia and Indianapolis COMBINED tallied two.

IMO BB's achilles heel has been evaluating college WRs. That's one position where PatsFans community favorites frequently -- though certainly not always -- fared better than Pats picks. (Happily, Taylor Price is looking like a better choice than board consensus pick Mardy Gilyard, who was just waived.) Oh, and of course the reluctance to draft OLBs, but that's a whole story in itself.

 

[Rob0729]

Only having one player still on your team after 2 drafts and 19 players drafted is atrocius and embaressing.

That's not true when you take into effect that six of the nine players selected in 2007 were drafted in the sixth and seventh round. For a team that went 18-1 that year, few sixth or seventh rounders are going to stick around. On most teams, sixth and seventh rounders don't stick around in the league for more than a year or two, maybe three.

The 2006 draft was a bad draft, but the 2007 draft wasn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be. In that draft only three players really had a real chance of making the team and contributing and one of those players did. Also, one sixth rounder (Mike Richardson) contributed for a few years and is still in the league (He is on the Colts).

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Only having one player still on your team after 2 drafts and 19 players drafted is atrocius and embaressing.

As I have said before, and I guess I will have to keep saying for a very long time: the 2007 team was already one of the most talented teams in NFL history, AND the Pats had EIGHT picks in the last three rounds of a relatively weak draft class. How were those players supposed to crack the roster?

Now 2006 was a disappointment, but even there you can't really look at any of those picks, except maybe Garrett Mills, and ask "WTF were they thinking?"

 

[mrscruff]

Come on, the Patriots actually made a "profit" on Le Kevin Smith in the 2006 draft.

2006 compensatory pick 206 and 2010 7th rounder (pick 231) traded for pick 158 in the 2010 draft.

 

[patfanken]

Posting this again. Until somebody here makes a evaluation supported by actually looking at more than just the Patriots, I'll consider this definitive:



Cold, Hard Football Facts.com: Insider

This is the DEFINITIVE post. Why because it tallies the results on the FIELD. Anyone can play would have and could have after the fact. What skill does it take to be a Monday morning QB. Its impossible to evaluate a draft WITHOUT considering the existing talent on the team, the general quality of the overall draft, and BOTH the round and placement IN the round where the pick was taken

The Cold Hard Football article puts out there pretty simply the Pats have gotten the BEST results out of their draft over the last decade by most of the objective parameters- Starters, all pros - active on the roster etc. But most importantly in WINS - 8 straight 10+ win seasons COULDN'T have been accomplished WITHOUT good overall drafting.

As Fencer pointed out, BB has added 46 NEW players from the 2007 team and STILL they have maintained a level of excellence that has turned so many of us into nitpicking spoiled brats. Sure BB has had his share of misses. Lots of them. But when you compare them to the rest of the league, his record stands among the best. No matter how you want to measure it.

 

[unoriginal]

The 2006 draft was a bad draft, but the 2007 draft wasn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be. In that draft only three players really had a real chance of making the team and contributing and one of those players did. Also, one sixth rounder (Mike Richardson) contributed for a few years and is still in the league (He is on the Colts).

Also Corey Hilliard, who is the swing tackle for the Lions.

 

[p8ryts]

I think people need to quit worrying about the Patriots drafting acumen and focus on their team building.

This team is completely turned over from the super bowl years with the exception of the QB and they went 11-5 without him one year.

As Andy points out they have even rebuilt from the 2007 team.

This team has the potential to compete for another 10 years. You can't say the same things about to many other teams.

We are very fortunate.

 

[jmt57]

Thinking they were good draft picks shows a total lack of intelligence

Only having one player still on your team after 2 drafts and 19 players drafted is atrocius and embaressing.

Unless you have stats for all 32 NFL teams over the course of several years to put these numbers into context then they are meaningless. For example one could complain about a baseball player making an out two out of every three times he bats, but in reality that percentage turns out to lead the league in batting that year.

 

[bagwell368]

Only having one player still on your team after 2 drafts and 19 players drafted is atrocius and embaressing.

Micro focus? Try looking at the entire body of work.

 

[condon84]

Just three*(Stephen Gostkowski,*Jerod Mayo, and*Matthew Slater) remaining from the 26 players they drafted from 2006-08.

Our draft has been much better the past two years. However, we went through a tough stretch there, definitely below BB standards.

 

[rufcut]

This is the DEFINITIVE post. Why because it tallies the results on the FIELD.

Absolutely. The results on the field is the only thing that matters.

I keep reading how terrible the Patriots drafts are. I have to conclude that this means they are below average. (Duh, right?)

So would one of you folks that thinks they are terrible name 16 teams that have gotten better results from their drafts?

 

[convertedpatsfan]

He's been good, but not great. I'd still probably take him over anyone in the league, but that aura of "Belichick the Mastermind Talent Evaluator" has worn off with some poor drafts from 06-08 and some poor signings.

The drafts from 06-08 killed this team. To get virtually nothing out of Wheatley, Crable, Meriweather, Maroney, and Chad Jackson set the team back. 06-08 was a key period for this team to try to reload while it still had veteran talent. Guys like Vrabel, Bruschi, Harrison were nearing the end but you figured they still had a few more years left and the young kids could develop under them and eventually take over. But it didn't happen. None of those guys adequately filled the shoes of the guys that left/retired/were dealt, and this team was left with a significant talent drain, especially on defense. The only good player they came away with was Mayo, who was a top ten pick. Even the 2009 draft which at first looked pretty promising has turned out to be pretty disappointing. We all had higher hopes for Brace, Butler, and Tate. Chung and Vollmer were good pickups, but Brace, Butler, and Tate all look like pretty bad misses, especially when you see Mike Wallace went a pick after Tate.

When you go back an look at those drafts, you're just left with so many what-ifs and what could have been. What if instead of Maroney and Chad Jackson they came away with Maurice Jones Drew and Greg Jennings or Brandon Marshall? What if they took Jon Beason, David Harris, or Lamar Woodley in 07 instead of Meriweather? What if we took Wallace instead of Tate in 08? Of course hindsight is 20/20, but the talent was there. Bill just missed out on it.

You can say that Bill has no one to blame but himself -- after all he is the one who tried to replace Asante with Fernando Bryant and Delthea O'Neal then followed it up with Wheatley/Wilhite/Butler in the draft before finally getting McCourty. He is the one that traded Seymour -- one of the cornerstones of our defense and one of the best defensive lineman in all of football -- and never really replaced him over a two year period until he traded for Haynesworth this off-season. And he is the one who has only drafted a linebacker once in the first round during his tenure in NE and never drafted pass rusher in the first or even developed one from the draft.

But even so, not many people have been better than Bill when it comes to drafting. He's had his share of bad picks, and the law of averages really caught up with the Pats later in the decade after they killed it in the draft earlier in the decade. He's the best in the business at collecting draft picks and turning current picks into higher picks the following year.

The only complaints that I've had are the reluctance to trade up and grab an elite player every once in a while and the lack of drafting/developing the front 7. Not saying he should do it every year, but when you have so many draft assets year in and year out, sometimes you've got to cash them and go up and get your Demarcus Ware type of OLB or Richard Seymour type of DL. I also think Bill has been far too passive in rebuilding the front 7. Besides Mayo and Wilfork, Bill has not invested heavily enough in the front 7 and it's showed in recent years. The linebacking corps and the defensive line have both lacked playmakers and the pass rush has been subpar. Imagine they went Beason in 07 and Mayo in 08? You'd be set at LB for at least the next 5-7 years while also giving them time to learn under a veteran like Bruschi.

Bill has been so good in the first round throughout his tenure in New England that you wonder why he hasn't traded up a bit more. A lot of people are afraid of trading up and giving up the assets and then being saddled with a bust. But with BB's track record in the first round, I'd say it's 90-10 or 80-20 at the worst that you're going to get a great football player.

2008 is the perfect example. Look at all the trash around Jerod Mayo -- Gholston, Harvey, Chris Williams, Gosder Cherilus, Leodis McKelvin, etc. But Bill identified Mayo and took him, and he has been by far the best defensive player taken in that draft. Better than Chris Long, Dorsey, Sedrick Ellis, Gholston, Rivers, etc. It makes you wonder why he doesn't trade up more because the odds heavily favor him hitting big on the guy he drafts.

I don't deny that the 2006 to 2008 drafts were pretty awful. I just don't understand how 2008 is the perfect example for anything you are talking about. For one thing, BB didn't trade up to get into the top 10; he traded out of the first round entirely in 2007. And secondly, he then traded that pick down again before selecting Mayo.