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Alfonzo Dennard


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That said, I still think that Wilson fills in for Gregory's role much better than he does Chung. I know that some will argue that Tavon Wilson has the potential to play BOTH safety roles, but I do not personally believe that he offers the same in run support as the typical SS; understanding that we don't differentiate roles here in N.England. I would much rather see Wilson play more of the "FS" role that Gregory tends to play, as opposed to Chung.
The New England Patriots pass defense is the issue not the run defense. If anything the New England Patriots run defense has improved with the additions of rookies Hightower and Jones as well as the improved play of Spikes and Love. Furthermore, Ninkovich is a major upgrade to Mark Anderson in run defense.

As I said, in Chung's only full season where he started more than 8 games, which was in 2010, he picked off 3 INT's, returned 1 for a TD, defended 9 passes total, and took part in 91 tackles solo + assisted.
Chung is in his contract year and the bottom line is either Chung has progressed or regressed in his fourth NFL season.

Let's give him the benefit of playing the whole season first before we try and determine the kind of year he has.
Either Chung is part of the solution or part of the problem with New England Patriots pass defense.

He does provide one hell of a thumping run defense, ST presence, youth, potential upside, and quite a lot of speed.
Chung is in his fourth season in the NFL. Potential upside is labeled for a player of Tavon Wilson's stature in the NFL.

Circling back to the theme of this thread, Alfonso Dennard. If Bill Belichick does not feel that Kyle Arrington is doing his job at right cornerback then Alfonso Dennard in the near future may be inserting into the starting role. Any improvement in cornerback performance would be welcome at this juncture of the season.
 
The New England Patriots pass defense is the issue not the run defense. If anything the New England Patriots run defense has improved with the additions of rookies Hightower and Jones as well as the improved play of Spikes and Love. Furthermore, Ninkovich is a major upgrade to Mark Anderson in run defense.

Yes, however Chung's presence makes the run defense much better with him a part of it than without him.


Either Chung is part of the solution or part of the problem with New England Patriots pass defense.

Chung is in his fourth season in the NFL. Potential upside is labeled for a player of Tavon Wilson's stature in the NFL.

The role of safety is not just pass defense. Run defense, and the ability to QB the secondary positions are very important too. Chung's only glaring weakness is his pass coverage, which is borderline awful. If Belichick sees improvement in technique or Chung ends up turning it around to have a better rest of the season, the whole issue is muddied even more; as Belichick still may feel the need to further evaluate him, or he may feel more strongly about the positives vs the negatives, thus offering him a reasonable deal for the future. I wouldn't give him anymore than 4 to 4 1/2 million per year on average.

As I stated with my Dashon Goldson stats, they are practically equal to Chung's through Goldson's first 4 years. Chung has the ability to go above and beyond anything that Goldson ever did in his first 4 yrs, and to provide a much stronger run support option.

There is still room to further evaluate Chung in the NEP defense, particularly due to his injury proneness and inconsistency. "Upside" means room to grow, and Chung still has plenty of room to grow yet. Whether or not he can improve on his pass coverage may or may not happen, which will likely dictate his ceiling.

Circling back to the theme of this thread, Alfonso Dennard. If Bill Belichick does not feel that Kyle Arrington is doing his job at right cornerback then Alfonso Dennard in the near future may be inserting into the starting role. Any improvement in cornerback performance would be welcome at this juncture of the season.

Of course. Although I am just as hopeful as you regarding Dennard, possibly even more since I never worried about his legal charges, I am also "cautiously optimistic," which is a term that you know well.

Dennard proved that he obviously needs more reps and assignments, but from what we've seen he looks to be a much better option than anyone else at this point.

Let's see what he does in the upcoming games before we annoint him with the HOF honor though, as many are ready to do.
 
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Although I am just as hopeful as you regarding Dennard, possibly even more since I never worried about his legal charges, I am also "cautiously optimistic," which is a term that you know well.

Dennard proved that he obviously needs more reps and assignments, but from what we've seen he looks to be a much better option than anyone else at this point.

Let's see what he does in the upcoming games before we annoint him with the HOF honor though, as many are ready to do.
I am not annointing Dennard HOF honor but hope to witness competent cornerback play.
 
I am not annointing Dennard HOF honor but hope to witness competent cornerback play.

No, I know that you are much too smart to have suggested that, but there are many here who are ready to make him our new #1.

Obviously, I am hoping that happens; but I also think that we need to see much more of a larger sample size before making that call.

At any rate, Dennard looks to be the real deal after holding Manning to an 0/5 completion rate in balls thrown in his area, and that's a good enough statline for me (besides the eye test, which is funny---b/c seeing #37 at first really caught me off guard since I wasn't expecting Dennard to play. I literally had to wonder who it was) to have a helluva lot of excitement for the kid.

I'm actually hoping that he earns enough reps and balls thrown his way to justify taking over the RCB spot full time, and like everyone else---I hope that it happens very soon too.
 
Yes, however Chung's presence makes the run defense much better with him a part of it than without him.
You make it sound that any high profile collegiate hybrid safety such as Robert Lester or Shawn Williams can't provide run support. Chung is not the first nor last NFL safety that will provide run support.

The role of safety is not just pass defense. Run defense, and the ability to QB the secondary positions are very important too.
So a collegiate safety such as Shawn Williams, who was named one of the captains of the Georgia Bulldogs, can't run a defensive secondary. So a collegiate safety such as Robert Lester, coached by Nick Saban, can't run a defensive secondary. Chung is not the first nor last NFL safety that can run a defensive secondary.

Chung's only glaring weakness is his pass coverage, which is borderline awful. If Belichick sees improvement in technique or Chung ends up turning it around to have a better rest of the season, the whole issue is muddied even more; as Belichick still may feel the need to further evaluate him, or he may feel more strongly about the positives vs the negatives, thus offering him a reasonable deal for the future.
The New England Patriots defensive secondary needs a safety that is equally adept at run defense as well as pass defense.
 
You make it sound that any high profile collegiate hybrid safety such as Robert Lester or Shawn Williams can't provide run support. Chung is not the first nor last NFL safety that will provide run support.

So a collegiate safety such as Shawn Williams, who was named one of the captains of the Georgia Bulldogs, can't run a defensive secondary. So a collegiate safety such as Robert Lester, coached by Nick Saban, can't run a defensive secondary. Chung is not the first nor last NFL safety that can run a defensive secondary.

The New England Patriots defensive secondary needs a safety that is equally adept at run defense as well as pass defense.

There are some problems to this theory though...

1. We have no idea where these highly lauded safeties will go, but common sense says that many will be gone before we pick. That said, I understand that the safety class in supposedly deep in 2013, the problem is that all of the other 31 teams have that information too. How Belichick views our priorities + where we pick one of these guys will partially determine what happens. I am expecting a high rookie safety pick, I think we all are. Sometimes things go according to what we think, sometimes not. Either way, choosing a high safety pick still doesn't necessarily equate to Chung not being here.

2. You are still making the assumption that one can simply dip into the collegiate pool and pluck out an NFL caliber player with a high success rate. I'm not remembing too many pure safeties in the Belichick era who just instantly meshed into the system and ended up doing great with long prosperous careers here. The success/failure rate in all draft picks is nothing more than a crapshoot where approx. 1/2 of all 1st and 2nd round picks never make much of themselves. Again..it's a gamble.

3. While the players you mention may/may not be around/injured/selected by other teams/etc, there will certainly be someone to take. In remembering that our defensive scheme is very complicated, choosing that player + the background that he's from will be important. Your choice of Alabama and Georgia are fine, but there's plenty that aren't. That's part of why we're in this position. Finding a "safety that will be equally adapt at both pass and run defense" isn't exactly easy. Actually, it's one of the tougher positions to hit a homerun on.

4. Even if we do hit on a homerun safety right out of the gate, his run support may not be as good as Chung's. There's no given. Not only that, Belichick mostly chooses to keep a blend of vets and rookies in his safety corps. I find it extremely hard to imagine someone like Gregory being the only vet with more than 1 yr of experience left back there, and I'd much rather see Gregory go to this point, as he certainly isn't a sure thing to stay either. There very well should be a safety added, but there is also a likelihood that Chung may still be here. As I said, I'm not sure why you seem so sure to the contrary? He won't be that expensive, and that decision will be all Bill Belichick's anyway.

Unless you have some type of inside information, I don't think we can make assumptions that he will/he won't be around, but both possibilities exist, and the issue will be dealt with at a later date than the beginning of October.
 
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It doesn't matter how deep the safety class is this year. After last year's draft, Belichick nearly had a heart attack. He'll trade all of our picks (minus the seventh rounder) for EVERY SINGLE SEVENTH ROUND PICK IN THE DRAFT. And then trade THOSE for picks for the year after. So Chung stays...
 
It doesn't matter how deep the safety class is this year. After last year's draft, Belichick nearly had a heart attack. He'll trade all of our picks (minus the seventh rounder) for EVERY SINGLE SEVENTH ROUND PICK IN THE DRAFT. And then trade THOSE for picks for the year after. So Chung stays...

:confused:
 
I am not annointing Dennard HOF honor but hope to witness competent cornerback play.

You said it. I'll settle for just competent from a pass defense that is ranked 30th in the league...AGAIN !
 
Dennard's thread has apparently become all about Pat Chung? Doesn't he have his own thread? Calling Passenger 57.
 
MARKET VALUE
By definition, no one overpays unless the could have gotten the player for considerably less. So, no, these players were not overpaid.

VALUE TO THE SIGNING TEAM, GIVEN THEIR CAP SITUATION
No, the players were not overpaid.

VALUE TO THE PATRIOTS, GIVEN OUR CAP, AND IF THE PLAYER WANTED TO PLAY FOR US
Yes, two players received more than the patriots were willing to pay them.

Do you believe BenJarvus Green-Ellis was overpaid in unrestricted free agency?

Do you believe Mark Anderson was overpaid in unrestricted free agency?
 
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Almost every player not named Brady, Wilfork, or Gronkowski could be upgraded. That is not the question.

Obviously, the fact that Arrington and Chung will be free agents makes discussion of them much more relevant. We can keep Gregory as a backup if we want or as a starter until someone else beats him out. No decisions have to be made on Gregory until the last round of cuts.

Take a good look at the New England Patriots current pass defensive rankings and then decide which starting defensive secondary players need to upgraded:

McCourty
Arrington
Chung
Gregory
 
MARKET VALUE
By definition, no one overpays unless the could have gotten the player for considerably less. So, no, these players were not overpaid.

VALUE TO THE SIGNING TEAM, GIVEN THEIR CAP SITUATION
No, the players were not overpaid.

VALUE TO THE PATRIOTS, GIVEN OUR CAP, AND IF THE PLAYER WANTED TO PLAY FOR US
Yes, the player received more than the patriots were willing to pay them.

Winners curse...
 
What happened to all the Dennard circle jerking?

"I see Ty Law in him!"

Hahahahhahaha
 
A lot of people can take the blame for this, but Dennard is not one of them. Edwards should have been called for PI, and it was a really good throw by Wilson.
 
What happened to all the Dennard circle jerking?

"I see Ty Law in him!"

Hahahahhahaha

Compared to the rest of the secondary he was rather good. I think he allowed 2 receptions - 1 for 12 yards and the TD to Edwards.

Arrington,Chung,McCourty,Wilson all gave up bombs if i recall
 
Dennard looked like Ty Law compared to Arrington.
 
What happened to all the Dennard circle jerking?

"I see Ty Law in him!"

Hahahahhahaha

he's probably played less than 150 snaps in his NFL career. I still think he'll be a starter by the playoffs.
 
This kid seems to have swagger.........and I hate to say it but you need your DBs to have a certain ****iness to them. He also seems to have better ability to track the ball while in air and turning his head to break up the pass. Ras-I Dowling also seemed to show these abilities.......wonder what he did to get in BB's dog-house?

I guess you could quote the "Art of War" philosophy when you concede to doubt before you even try the fight is already lost......McCourty and Arrington lack confidence and are more suited for Zone Schemes and its obvious we haven't fixed the safety issues (except for some promising play in Tavon Wilson) which kills us on deep balls. When McCourty and Arrington are asked to play man coverage they never turn their heads or try to read the WR's eyes to make a play on the ball......

Hopefully Dennard can seize the opportunity cause I'd prefer to see him opposite DMC, Dowling 3rd CB and Arrington in slot/Dime/Nickel packages
 
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That PI on Dennard could have gone the other way (maybe on a neutral field). He's one of the few DBs that actually ends up facing the right way when trying to defend a pass. He turned a tad too late on that particular play. At least he seems to read the receivers better.

After Arrington was benched in the 1st Q, Dennard was the lone guy out there who actually wasn't victimized by the 30+ yard bombs.

Arrington
McCourty
Chung
then the bobbsie twins
Ebner and Wilson

He was the soul survivor in a sea of.... flail.
 
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