Alfonzo Dennard

[supafly]

What's wrong with the wide receiver quartet of Welker, Lloyd, Edelman, Salas?

Besides, the safety class is far deeper in the 2013 NFL Draft than the 2012 NFL Draft.

I think that even though they have some very different qualities amongst the three, Salas/Welker/Edelman offer somewhat similar attributes nonetheless. Even Llyod can't really stretch the field vertically, although he certainly helps stretch it horizonally. I think we'd have a need to grab another WR who poses more of a threat, but as we see this year--it's not exactly a 'need' either.

Now there's certainly a very high probability that we'd add at least a couple/few other FA receivers to add some depth and competition, much like we always do.

That's also taking into account that both Edelman and Welker are FA's of course, so your guess is as good as mine as to who will/will not be retained.

Welker is obviously the key to the WR corp next year, and Edelman still needs to prove that he can be more effective and productive in the WR role.

I'm personally guessing that either a mid-range name WR is brought in FA, or that they spend at least a mid round pick on one in the draft.

I'm certainly with you as far as the safety goes though, but I couldn't give an educated guess due to lack of sufficient knowledge as to where they may target that guy. If they bring in a FA safety somewhere, that certainly lessens the need on some level; especially since Wilson and Ebner are rookies this year. I have a feeling that Chung will be retained for less money than people are predicting, but that certainly doesn't lock up his role as one of the 2 starters either. I like him for depth/competition/knowledge of the schemes etc, but I think they can and should improve on the coverage aspect.

 

[ATippett56]

What do you think of this year's QB crop? I don't see much pro potential outside of Barkley, and even there, we know how well USC QBs work out.

To be brutally honest, I have not focused my attention on collegiate quarterbacks this NCAAF season. On the otherhand; defensive ends, defensive tackles, safeties have been on my radar.

 

[ATippett56]

I have a feeling that Chung will be retained for less money than people are predicting, but that certainly doesn't lock up his role as one of the 2 starters either. I like him for depth/competition/knowledge of the schemes etc, but I think they can and should improve on the coverage aspect.

Isn't the definition of insanity doing the same things over and over again and expecting different results?

 

[Creative Username]

Isn't the definition of insanity doing the same things over and over again and expecting different results?

That is the mark of insanity, yes.

As for the DTackles... I agree. We could use more depth there for sure because beyond Love and Wilfork... I don't see much there. Maybe Brace if he can get his stuff together, but we could use some youth.

 

[Avenger]

Clearly... Just look at the Tavon Wilson selection.
Plus, there's lots of games left. Plenty of time to raise... or lower his draft stock.
What do you think of this year's QB crop? I don't see much pro potential outside of Barkley, and even there, we know how well USC QBs work out.

Geno Smith, best QB in the draft. Jordan Rodgers could be a nice late round pick, kid brother of Aaron Rodgers.

 

[Avenger]

Isn't the definition of insanity doing the same things over and over again and expecting different results?

I have no problems with Chung on downs 1 and 2.

 

[ATippett56]

I have no problems with Chung on downs 1 and 2.

The NFL in calendar year 2012 is a passing league. If you want to experience the 1970s of run, run, pass once again, I am sure Mister Peabody & Sherman can assist you.

 

[supafly]

I have no problems with Chung on downs 1 and 2.

And part of that is certainly my point.

Chung does things well, there's not much doubt about that. He has a major weakness in the passing game though, so that should be taken into acct when trying to assess his future and role here.

Just because Chung may not be starting, does not mean that the NEP wouldn't want him on their team, and that's what people seem to be forgetting.

Chung would arguably be a very good role/rotational safety, or at the very least a very viable backup.

 

[supafly]

The NFL in calendar year 2012 is a passing league. If you want to experience the 1970s of run, run, pass once again, I am sure Mister Peabody & Sherman can assist you.

You are acting as though we will suddenly have every single position and depth role accounted for with the very best players next year.

We've got Chung, Wilson (a rookie), Ebner (a rookie), and Gregory on our team this year. Those were Belichick's choices to help defend the pass for the year.

Last year we had Chung, Ihedigbo, Sergio Brown, and Barrett as our safeties.

Thinking that Patrick Chung can't be a #3 or #4 safety next year is interesting thinking. I guess you think they'll somehow suddenly field a team of pass covering studs at the safety position then?

Upgrading is one thing, but saying that there isn't any room for Patrick Chung anywhere is another thing altogether.

 

[Dutchmaster617]

That is who he was, I meant to ask who was this guy and how is he suddenly our best corner, it was either BUF or DEN game probably the former where he was carrying the pass D on his back. Sad but true.

 

[supafly]

That is who he was, I meant to ask who was this guy and how is he suddenly our best corner, it was either BUF or DEN game probably the former where he was carrying the pass D on his back. Sad but true.

I think he was thrown at 4-5 times without any completions in last week's game vs Denver. That was his first NFL action, he didn't play in the BUF game the week before.

It's amazing what 1 pass defended and 1 tackle can do for the fanbase, but the fact that he actually is someone who played well in college and didn't get rattled vs Manning is the reason for excitement.

The fact that Manning couldn't complete any passes in 4-5 attempts in his area bodes well in Dennard's first action ever. Hopefully he takes the role and runs with it as our new shutdown CB.

 

[jbb9s]

Upgrading is one thing, but saying that there isn't any room for Patrick Chung anywhere is another thing altogether.

keep in mind that both Meriwether and Sanders got flat out cut even one if not both were probably good enough for the bottom of the depth chart. It seems to me like there are certain players who once they fail as starters or impact roles they are better off cut then relegated. Its like get out of here, lets try someone else with upside mentality.

 

[mgteich]

Now, let's see. Chung starts for a Super Bowl team for a couple of years. He is a free agent. And we think that we can bring back as a backup?

Chung will be paid by someone to start at safety. Someone will be pay him starter's pay, at least $4M a year (including bonuses) I would think. If we are not willing to pay him this much, then it is not likely that we have any room for Chung on the team.

You are acting as though we will suddenly have every single position and depth role accounted for with the very best players next year.

We've got Chung, Wilson (a rookie), Ebner (a rookie), and Gregory on our team this year. Those were Belichick's choices to help defend the pass for the year.

Last year we had Chung, Ihedigbo, Sergio Brown, and Barrett as our safeties.

Thinking that Patrick Chung can't be a #3 or #4 safety next year is interesting thinking. I guess you think they'll somehow suddenly field a team of pass covering studs at the safety position then?

Upgrading is one thing, but saying that there isn't any room for Patrick Chung anywhere is another thing altogether.

 

[ATippett56]

Thinking that Patrick Chung can't be a #3 or #4 safety next year is interesting thinking. I guess you think they'll somehow suddenly field a team of pass covering studs at the safety position then?

Earlier in this thread, I provided a hypothetical salary cap exercise. Either retain wide receivers Wes Welker and Julian Edelman or retain Brace, Pyror, Scott, Arrington, Chung. The harsh reality is that there are only so many salary cap dollars to go around.

Based upon a preliminary review of the 2013 NFL safety draft class, the risk of allowing Chung to depart is favorable.

 

[supafly]

Earlier in this thread, I provided a hypothetical salary cap exercise. Either retain wide receivers Wes Welker and Julian Edelman or retain Brace, Pyror, Scott, Arrington, Chung. The harsh reality is that there are only so many salary cap dollars to go around.

Based upon a preliminary review of the 2013 NFL safety draft class, the risk of allowing Chung to depart is favorable.

I would agree with you, depending upon the amt of money they offer of course. It obviously will come down to Belichick's assessment of where he may want him to be, and whether Chung is comfortable staying here for a little less than the market may offer.

 

[supafly]

Now, let's see. Chung starts for a Super Bowl team for a couple of years. He is a free agent. And we think that we can bring back as a backup?

Chung will be paid by someone to start at safety. Someone will be pay him starter's pay, at least $4M a year (including bonuses) I would think. If we are not willing to pay him this much, then it is not likely that we have any room for Chung on the team.

You mean like Meriweather and his 2 yr/6 million dollar deal with Washington?

And that's after he made the probowl twice.

It will all depend on how much Belichick offers him. Many are throwing around numbers at 5 million per year or so, but that may not be the case. We've paid role players/potential starters good money before, it will all depend on how/where Belichick sees his potential fit here.

Either way, I would agree that someone is probably likely to throw more money at him than the Pats will, but I also think that it's way too early to be claiming that "Chung is definitely gone" next year, despite the fact that I think he's the most overrated player on the team.

 

[ATippett56]

I also think that it's way too early to be claiming that "Chung is definitely gone" next year, despite the fact that I think he's the most overrated player on the team.

I'm not sure why then you are arguing his case since the New England Patriots defensive secondary is the weakest unit on the New England Patriots defense.

 

[supafly]

I'm not sure why then you are arguing his case since the New England Patriots defensive secondary is the weakest unit on the New England Patriots defense.

Personally, I think Chung has always been terribly overrated, and his pass coverage flat out sucks in my opinion.

That said, Belichick has referred to "being strong up the middle" (paraphrasing) and with Wilfork, Spikes/Mayo, and Chung we certainly are against the run...

I think it's way too early and there are way too many variable to try and judge whether Chung will be around next year.

We just don't know if he's made progress on certain things in BB's eyes, if he has done better with certain aspects or not, how much BB values him, whether or not he likes the fact that he is young + knowledgable of the system, and how Belichick may use him in the future.

I think with any player, you have to try and utilize their talents, mask their weaknesses, and assess their potential value at the end of the year. I also think that many here have overrated Chung's market value a bit. There may be some question as to whether or not he'd be worth 4 million or so/per moving forward. As much as I do not like Chung is pass coverage, there are still things that he does well, and Belichick may be just fine offering him a reasonable deal.

I think the only player we can really say will be gone to this point in 2013 is Kyle Arrington, and that's just due to the market in CB's + the fact that he led the league in INT's last year. Other than that, I don't know if there are too many/any at all that we can fairly predict as 'definitely being gone' in 2013.

2 months ago Chung was considered God-like in many fan's eyes, now he's considered automatically gone after 5 games....that's all I have a problem with. For all we know, BB may even want an additional year in 2013 to fully assess him, thus using the franchise tag. We just don't know yet.

 

[ATippett56]

2 months ago Chung was considered God-like in many fan's eyes,

Who has put Chung up on the pedestal?

now he's considered automatically gone after 5 games....that's all I have a problem with.

The 2012 New England Patriots roster "is what it is".

The 2013 New England Patriots roster is up for debate with a slew of pending unrestricted free agents:

Woodhead
Shiancoe
Thomas
Vollmer
Branch
Welker
Edelman
Brace
Pryor
Scott
Carpenter
Koutouvides
White
Chung
Arrington
Cole

For all we know, BB may even want an additional year in 2013 to fully assess him, thus using the franchise tag. We just don't know yet.

Franchise tag for Chung? You've got to be kidding?

 

[ATippett56]

You are acting as though we will suddenly have every single position and depth role accounted for with the very best players next year.

Starter upgrades via the 2013 NFL Draft: right offensive guard, strong safety

Connolly moves back to center and second or third round 2013 NFL draft pick starts at right offensive guard.

Chung departs via unrestricted free agency and a second or third 2013 NFL draft pick starts at strong safety.

Depth upgrades via the 2013 NFL Draft: defensive tackle, offensive tackle, defensive end (though Bill Belichick may disagree)