2011 Offseason

[JetFan1]

Well, I wouldn't expect you to handle a hypothetical. I used an extreme to show how ridiculous his point was that calling a rookie a bust after one season. I think Dowling could be a productive player for this team. I don't think he will ever be a HOFer.

Yes we know, all of your hypotheticals is always a rosy Patriot spin when involving a Patriot player.

Funny though, you seem to always have an exact opposite "hypothetical" response when discussing a Jets player, always the doom and gloom spin.

That is funny...

 

[Rob0729]

You're wrong, Greene was a 2nd year player, and Tomlinson before his first year with the Jets changed his off-season regiment and came to camp in great shape showing a lot of bounce in his legs. The Jets were also enamored with how effective Green was in the playoffs in Ryan's first year as a back-up to Thomas Jones, they wanted that effect again with LT starting, and while Green was still developing. Greene's biggest issues coming out of college was his pass receiving ability, he's now developed the skill and was ready for a bigger role.

Greene is a RB. Many RBs can start and be elite their rookie season. It is the easiest position to adapt to on the team.

Also, I am talking about the general public's and media's perception, not Rex Ryan. Most people including you thought that Greene was going to be an elite RB going into last season and replace Thomas Jones' production.

Besides, Thomas Jones was never more than a decent receiver for the Jets. In fact, his last year there he was a horrible one (10 catches for 58 yards).

 

[JetFan1]

I'll take a clue for $100, Alex.

Hint: it probably has something to do with the fact that he wasn't drafted to play RT.

Ok, then why did they draft a supposed LT witha high first round draft pick when they didn't have a major need for the position, with so many bigger holes at other positions, and so much better talent available on the draft board?

 

[JetFan1]

Greene is a RB. Many RBs can start and be elite their rookie season. It is the easiest position to adapt to on the team.

Also, I am talking about the general public's and media's perception, not Rex Ryan. Most people including you thought that Greene was going to be an elite RB going into last season and replace Thomas Jones' production.

Besides, Thomas Jones was never more than a decent receiver for the Jets. In fact, his last year there he was a horrible one (10 catches for 58 yards).

Who thought this? Who are these people? Where is my post that you're eluding to?

Greene was a good talent coming out, he was a 3rd round pick with a lot of upside, he has developed and is now having his breakout year this year as the featured back. Nobody thought he would be elite, and certainly not in his first year. What the hell are you talking about?

 

[Rob0729]

Yes we know, all of your hypotheticals is always a rosy Patriot spin when involving a Patriot player.

Funny though, you seem to always have an exact opposite "hypothetical" response when discussing a Jets player, always the doom and gloom spin.

That is funny...

You know what's funny is that you are too stupid to understand subtilies of an argument.

I have never used a hypothetical for a Jets player like this. I am not making any predictions or projections on Dowling. I am just giving the what if he has the best possible career. I do not expect Dowling to have a HOF career.

 

[Deus Irae]

Ok, then why did they draft a supposed LT witha high first round draft pick when they didn't have a major need for the position, with so many bigger holes at other positions, and so much better talent available on the draft board?

To get the bookends moving forward, since Light is aging. I may, or may not, agree with the move, but it did have a rational basis.

 

[JackBauer]

Ok, then why did they draft a supposed LT witha high first round draft pick when they didn't have a major need for the position, with so many bigger holes at other positions, and so much better talent available on the draft board?

Actually they did have a major need at the position.

What, pray tell, was the better talent available than a projected franchise LT?

 

[JackBauer]

...and is now having his breakout year this year as the featured back.

What is he breaking out into? Mediocrity?

 

[JetFan1]

What is he breaking out into? Mediocrity?

With the Jets OL now returning to form after sustaining early injuries to start the year, and the offense being out of sync in the passing game due to instability on the OL, the offense has back to a balanced attack. Since the last Patriot game, the offense has been much improved, and last week, they were at their most efficient and most dominating level, Greene has been a big part of this, along with the improvement and stability on the OL.

 

[b72s]

Two Names

Ryan Kerrigan

JJ Watt

 

[JackBauer]

Two Names

Ryan Kerrigan

JJ Watt

...both gone by 17.

 

[JackBauer]

With the Jets OL now returning to form after sustaining early injuries to start the year, and the offense being out of sync in the passing game due to instability on the OL, the offense has back to a balanced attack. Since the last Patriot game, the offense has been much improved, and last week, they were at their most efficient and most dominating level, Greene has been a big part of this, along with the improvement and stability on the OL.

Meh. You'll have to forgive me if I don't lose any sleep over the elite 3.8 YPC talent that is Shonn Greene.

 

[IllegalContact]

Everyone expected Tomlinson to be the change of pace/third down back and replace Greene in that role. It wasn't until Greene continued to fumble the ball that they swapped roles.

again.....who is everyone? I knew that was not going to be the case

 

[Deus Irae]

...both gone by 17.

Trading up is not against the law, even in New England.

 

[JetFan1]

Meh. You'll have to forgive me if I don't lose any sleep over the elite 3.8 YPC talent that is Shonn Greene.

Then you stick to your fantasy stats and spreadsheets that portray season numbers, completely ignoring my point, and I'll stick to actually watching the game and seeing the player perform.

 

[Rob0729]

Two Names

Ryan Kerrigan

JJ Watt

Both were selected before the Pats selected. Since Kerrigan was selected the pick before the Pats picked and the the team trading out of that pick (Jacksonville) didn't have DE or OLB as their biggest need especially not a projected 3-4 OLB, the Pats might have thought Kerrigan was going to fall to them. It was an error that they didn't suspect that Washington would trade ahead of them (since Belichick and Shanahan are friends, Shanahan might have had an inkling that the Pats would take him and traded above him), but you can't always predict that.

JJ Watt was the 11th pick and the Pats might not have had any trade partners at 10 or 9. And what it took for the Falcons to get up to 6 to get Julio Jones, the price might have been too high.

Blaming a team for not trading up to get a player, you need to know what the behind the scenes stuff was before you can make an accurate assessment. The Pats might have traded up for Watt but teams higher than Houston were asking for unreasonable trades or planned on taking Kerrigan and were blindsided by the Redskins who traded up right before them. Any player after the draft is fair, but even then you need to look at any potential red flags that any reasonable GM might have passed on.

 

[Deus Irae]

Then you stick to your fantasy stats and spreadsheets that portray season numbers, completely ignoring my point, and I'll stick to actually watching the game and seeing the player perform.

Perhaps you could stop wildly overrating Greene in the process.....

 

[IllegalContact]

At the point, Water was signed the Pats needed depth in the interior line, not a starter. He ended up starting because he is a great talent and the Pats unfortunately had a major injury on the interior o-line early in the season. It is a fact that the Pats started this season with every offensive line starter that started on this o-line in December and January of last year. The starting RG spot was not a hole like you suggest. Waters just ended up being an added bonus that he upgraded a position that was already set.

Carter and Anderson have made the defense better. Without them, this defense would be significantly worse especially without Carter. They have made an impact. .

maybe if you're into 4-3 defenses, but this defense is simply worse than last years. both have had most of their sacks at meaningless moments and have hardly had an impact on any success

Sorry, I meant Andruzzi started RG for three Super Bowls. You can play semantics here that I accidentally put a L instead of R, but it doesn't change the fact that Andruzzi was a starting guard in three Super Bowl seasons. Also, you think Vrabel is relevant who was a back up in Pittsburgh and worked his way into being a starter and not Andruzzi who did the similiar thing. .

its not semantics........its called accuracy.....andruzzi was RG for 2 SB's and LG for one.......but don't let that stop you from arguing semantics

vrabel was relevant to success from the very first moment......andruzzi had well over a year to be a part of anything remotely resembling success.

Ok, so just hypothetically, Dowling returns next year and has a HOF career, be will always be recognized as a bust because he went on IR his rookie year? I meant draft pick, not rookie but the point stands. A draft pick is not a bust until he is cut or at least proves over several years that he is worth being cut. There is a reason why they say you can't judge a draft until after three years. Calling a rookie a bust because he goes to IR because three other rookies in the past went on IR with far severe injuries (one hit IR in back to back years with major injuries) lacks any significant proof of anything.

I'll eat my words if he does, but if he does what you describe, it will be a first....it simply doesn't happen....but keep holding out precious hope

you can define bust whatever way you like......to me, if a 2nd rounder is not a steady contributor in year 1, slap the bust label on them.....there are certain exceptions......QB takes time to develop for some.....but anyone else, if you're drafted in rounds 1 and 2 and you don't produce in year 1, you are a bust.

 

[Big-T]

...both gone by 17.

Liuget, Amukamara, Taylor & Jordan were available at 17
Sheard & Reed were available at 28 and 33

Any 3 of those would have improved the team.

 

[JetFan1]

Perhaps you could stop wildly overrating Greene in the process.....

How am I overrating him?