Welcome to PatsFans.com

2011 Offseason

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by cstjohn17, Nov 9, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2006
    Messages:
    5,027
    Likes Received:
    20
    Ratings:
    +34 / 11 / -4

    #54 Jersey

    I had really high hopes for this offseason, the Patriots were loaded with draft picks and cap space. Some additional youth and depth and a difference maker on defense in the front seven and this team was ready to roll.

    Instead they went in the opposite direction, adding offensive draft picks and a bunch of old retreads on defense.

    Not only did they take a huge gamble this year but they set back the overall rebuilding process.

    Very disappointing.
  2. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2006
    Messages:
    17,243
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +20 / 3 / -0

    #91 Jersey

    Gotta agree on all of it, the highlighted part is especially sad. I can't stand the thought of taking more DB's. Many a draft pick was used on this position over the last few years, only to be cut later.
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2011
  3. PassMeABruschi

    PassMeABruschi Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    what we should do is trade Brady, and start Hoyer.
  4. Wilfork#75

    Wilfork#75 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    1,841
    Likes Received:
    50
    Ratings:
    +90 / 5 / -1

    #75 Jersey

    Is it too late to suck for Luck?
  5. Sivy

    Sivy Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2007
    Messages:
    3,060
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    These threads are ok but moss threads aren't?
  6. Wilfork#75

    Wilfork#75 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    1,841
    Likes Received:
    50
    Ratings:
    +90 / 5 / -1

    #75 Jersey

    Its especially sad when we look back at that first preseason game when everything looked so promising. The chance of moving to an attacking, aggressive 4-3 defence with a dominating D-line. Unfortunately we kept the same scheme with a different front, and similar results to previous years. This season definitely isn't over yet, but there are obviously some things that really need to be addressed in the offseason.
  7. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    9,708
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +47 / 0 / -0

    There isn't a move that they made that I wasn't excited about, so it's hard for me to question anything they did now. Is it disappointing? Sure. But all the moves were understandable and made sense.
  8. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2005
    Messages:
    13,090
    Likes Received:
    70
    Ratings:
    +172 / 0 / -0

    The lockout, having free agency take place after the draft, free agency taking place during training camp, and free agency taking place within just a couple days of finding out what the cap was all wreaked havoc on any offseason plans. Other than Mathias Kiwanuka and Ray Edwards, I can't recall any free agents on defense that the Pats in hindsight possibly should have made a bigger push to sign.

    However, it was both disappointing and confusing that the Pats did not acquire one (if not two) of several players on defense in the draft, such as Ryan Kerrigan (yes, I realize he was taken before the Pats first 1st round pick), Adrian Clayborn, Cameron Jordan, Jabaal Sheard, Brooks Reed, etc. And while I can completely understand the need to draft a running back, using two picks in the first three rounds and in the top 75 overall on that position certainly deserves questioning.
  9. Wilfork#75

    Wilfork#75 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    1,841
    Likes Received:
    50
    Ratings:
    +90 / 5 / -1

    #75 Jersey

    After some time to cool down after the draft I came to like a lot of the Pats picks from the draft, even Mallet, but that is one that I can't and never will be able to understand. You can talk about drafting for value and taking the best guy available and all that stuff but it is all garbage. You draft to make you team better, and a 3rd and 4th RB doesn't do that. I like both guys individually, but back to back in the 2nd and 3rd, to me is idiotic. Especially with the way the Pats use RB's.
  10. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2006
    Messages:
    17,243
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +20 / 3 / -0

    #91 Jersey

    I was Shocked, that the team didn't take an OLB or DE when this was a great year for D-lineman. Especially since the team hasn't had a pass rush in years, it was a real area of need.

    Afterwards i like the Solder pick but trading the second 1st rounder to a team (NO) that could end up in the same place in the draft i couldn't understand, there were still a number of quality D Lineman still on the board.
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2011
  11. PassMeABruschi

    PassMeABruschi Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    of course not...maybe put on a Phins jersey as well, to complete the transformation
  12. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2005
    Messages:
    20,429
    Likes Received:
    114
    Ratings:
    +205 / 4 / -5

    The one reason I think you can defend those picks, though, is here was the RB draft chart when the draft started:

    Green-Ellis (RFA for 2011)
    Woodhead (signed through 2012)

    That's it.
  13. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2006
    Messages:
    29,738
    Likes Received:
    220
    Ratings:
    +479 / 5 / -1

    Several points:

    1.) People focus on the negative signing, but don't want to credit the good ones. Guys like Brian Waters, Andre Carter, and Mak Anderson have exceeded expectations.

    2.) The lockout has hurt a lot of teams in a rebuilding/reload process. Look at the Dream Team... ummm... Eagles, they are 3-5 right now even though no other team was more active in assembling talent to make a Super Bowl run this year. Other teams in the same boat with high expectations and low results include the Rams, Chargers, and Falcons. This is a freak year because of the lockout.

    3.) I think Belichick approached the draft thinking that most rookies won't produce this year. Overall it has been a down year for rookies. Few rookies stand out as special. I think Belichick used this draft as a developmental draft.

    4.) As for taking two RBs in the the second and third round, I like that better than taking Mark Ingram in the first like many people wanted. Ingram has yet to stand out and the value of the 28th pick is far more than what they spent on Ridley and Vereen.

    5.) Some of the draft picks listed haven't really done much. Cameron Jordan has 22 tackles and 0 sacks. Adrian Clayborn has 15 tackles, 3 sacks, and a forced fumble (decent, but not spectacular). Brooks Reed has 5 tackles and two sacks. Jabaal Sheard has 27 tackles, 2.5 sacks, and two forced fumbles. These guys are not producing at a rate that you think they are going to be anything special as of yet. It is their rookie season so they could break out, but I don't think I look at any of these guys and remotely start another "the Pats could have had Clay Matthews" type of argument.
  14. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2006
    Messages:
    5,027
    Likes Received:
    20
    Ratings:
    +34 / 11 / -4

    #54 Jersey

    Those are the picks I hated the most. Sure they needed RBs but they are basically a dime a dozen. Either elite or average. They could have stocked the shelves with a series of second rate veterans. Better to have old washed at players at RB than defensive line.
  15. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    20,434
    Likes Received:
    93
    Ratings:
    +222 / 17 / -2

    I am NOT disappointing by any of the off-season moves other than the cutting of Meriweather and Sanders before we knew that there replacements would work out.
    =======================================
    FRONT SEVEN
    Folks are whining about defensive line and OLB. The defense was playing reasonable well for the last half of 2010, among the leaders in points allowed. Belichick chose to improve this group in free agency. He has done so. They have played well. Carter and Anderson are significant improvements over Banta-Cain and Moore.

    To say that the rebuilding process is delayed is ridiculous. Love, Deaderick, Fletcher, and Spikes are all fine players and have been playing very well. Brace could still work out.
    ====================================
    CORNER
    We have two young starters at corner (who played well last year and are OK this year), and a third on IR who looked good when he played. It is difficult to see that rebuilding has been delayed. Also, Molden beat out Butler fo a backup corne spot.
    =====================================
    SAFETY
    Belichick believes in his youngsters: Chung, Barrett and Brown. He brought in Ihedigbo, a special teamer who has also played OK at safety. This is hardy a failure to rebuild. It is an example of mis-evaluation and rebuilding too fast. Sanders should still be on the team.






  16. Wilfork#75

    Wilfork#75 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    1,841
    Likes Received:
    50
    Ratings:
    +90 / 5 / -1

    #75 Jersey

    I understand they needed to add two guys to the roster, but my problem is adding guys so high. I would have prefered Jamie Harper in the 4th or 5th round and an UDFA or a vet FA.

    BJGE- UDFA
    Woodhead- UDFA



    I agree that Carter, Anderson and Waters have been great this season and I hope they are on the roster next season. But you have to be a little disapointed because there was so much potential there in the preseason. And I agree, I wouldn't have liked Ingram in the first at all. I can't criticize BB's draft trades, when it comes to maneuvering the draft board there is nobody better. He puts this team in the best position to draft the most talent to help the team. Where he has fallen short though is actually identifying that talent. While there wasn't any particular player that I wanted at the picks they selected Vereen or Ridley, my dislike for the picks is a basic phylisophical disagreement with the selections at that point.
  17. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact On the Roster

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    10,830
    Likes Received:
    136
    Ratings:
    +273 / 4 / -9

    except that the 'good' signings of waters, carter, and anderson are side effects of ignoring obvious needs......they had to go out and get carter and anderson because they suddenly decided they need to go 4-3......this is directly related to the drafting of failures like dowling and butler over barwin and reed who are teh starting OLB's for one of the top defenses in the NFL (texans). to me it sounds like horrible scouting and a total failure to address the biggest need on the team for 5 years running. waters was a last minute replacement for a guy who had been injury prone for the previous 5 years (neal). all 3 have worked out well, but the failure to address needs here is blatant
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2011
  18. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2006
    Messages:
    29,738
    Likes Received:
    220
    Ratings:
    +479 / 5 / -1

    When the Pats did the same exact thing in the Super Bowl years, Belichick was a genius. Belichick signed washed up and journeyman players like David Patten, Joe Andruzzi, Roman Phifer, Bobby Hamilton, Anthony Pleasant, Otis Smith, Antowain Smith, etc. because of his ignoring obvious needs in the draft.

    You know what? Ted Washington was a last minute replacement for a need that wasn't fulfilled in the draft or free agency. The failure of Belichick to replace that need was blatant too. So should we not give him credit for signing Washington too.

    Also, Dowling is not a failure. At least not yet. People are spinning him into a failure, but that is all it is at this point is spin.

    People really want to spin the same strategy that Belichick has employed for years as now as some kind of flaw. Belichick employed the same strategy during the Super Bowl years as he does now. His hits and misses aren't as good as then, but the philosophy hasn't changed.
  19. Darolyn72

    Darolyn72 Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2011
    Messages:
    117
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    You have to excuse Robo, he doesn't watch the games. Jabaal Sheard is considered by many to be a rising star on a team with a good defense and ZERO offense. If he were a Patriot you would be extolling how great he is. Brooks Reed right now is being used as a situational pass rusher on a great defense and he's still better than anyone the Pats have. Mark Anderson has 3 garbage sacks, he barely plays.

    And if Belchick thought that the rookies wouldn't have an impact he's stupid. Because Watt, Kerrigan, Fairley, Miller, Dareus, Green, Jones, Sheard, Aldon Smith, Solder are all making impacts.

    Hey Robo, where do the Pats go now? They have no pass rusher for next season and will never spend the money to acquire one. Even if Bill finally relents and drafts one, they will be a rookie. Also, Carter is a FA, you going over pay for another guy in a contract year over 32? They have almost no young talent in the front 7.

    This organization needs to look itself in the mirror. There 2nd best player Wes Welker...unsigned. He's going to be another guy they drag through the mud for money. If I were him, I would say..CYA. I have just as much a shot at a championship somewhere else as here. The Pats still think they are the model franchise in the NFL. They aren't even the model franchise in their division right now.

    Let's see, go play for Bill, get nickled and dimed, live in Foxboro, and don't dare EVER speak your mind. Or go play in New York, spend weekends in NYC, play for a team trending up not down, let's not forget they have gone farther than us the last TWO years, and get to be yourself. Oh, and the Jets spend money. They are not trying to win every negotiation. As I said yesterday Belichick is getting to be like Sinden at the end. Dragging every player through a negotiation. No foresight. Ray Bourque, Cam Neely. They have a value....it should be giving Bruin fans flashbacks. And Sinden was once as good a talent evaluator as anyone in the NHL.

    For instance. Gronk is a special player, will the Pats lock him up early. NOPE. How about Mayo, where is his contract? The Pats gripe about Mankins, Samuel, Seymour etc. Well, if you didn't wait until the guy was able to test free agency you wouldn't have to overpay for him. The Pats could have locked Samuel up earlier, Branch earlier, Welker last year. Even Brady when Big Ben signed.

    But they won't and that's why they have become fools. Great players like Bruschi, Harrison, Troy Brown are not going to take below market deals anymore. You have 7 years to make money in this league on average. If you play in the Super Bowl every year maybe you concede a little, but when you can't offer that anymore, then its about money.

    Sorry Patsfans, this thing is going to hit the iceberg before it gets better.
  20. Wilfork#75

    Wilfork#75 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    1,841
    Likes Received:
    50
    Ratings:
    +90 / 5 / -1

    #75 Jersey

    Isn't this part of the problem. The league has changed, we've got 3 guys on pace to break the single season passing yards record. Its a QB driven league where defences are built on pressure and turnovers, yet we are still trying to use many of the things that we used 7,8,10 years ago because we won Super Bowls with that strategy then. I love BB and there isn't any coach in the NFL I would trade him for, but could it be time for him to adapt. Is it possible that with the current state of the NFL that the two gap system is outdated? Either way I trust that BB will do what is best for this team to win.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>