POST Game Thread: It was the Best of Times, It was the Worst of Times Edition

Rob0729 said:

Again, what does that have to do with whether Blount had a lead back on the TD? And you were wrong, because the Pats blew out the Dolphins without running that much at all.

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Rob0729 said:

Ummm.... This quote was in response to you killing McDaniels for going into the game and just pounding the ball with Blount and Gray all game. This has nothing to do with whether Blount was running with a lead back or not. You are definitely twisting my quote. This was a post posted after the first drive responding to you complaining about passing the ball.

Please post your post that I was responding to before you accuse me of something.

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So you agree a lead back helps (why else mention it re Blount?)? But I'm wrong either way because we didn't run at all. We ran 26 (plus Brady's three) times to 35 (38 if you flip Brady's runs).

We did run the ball. However, the scheme and personnel decisions largely lead to that being ineffective. If we came out with a heavy set and Develin in the backfield with Blount/GRAY (im starting to think Blount sucks at reading blocks, hence he rarely has a fullback in front of him and explains the inexplicable ****yfooting at the los. Or maybe it is confidence in the reads?) and established (or tried to) the run, it would not have been more effective than that pitiful first half performance?

Brady6 said:

I put him and a few others on ignore a few months back and I have not had one argument on here since. I am also enjoying my time on here much more. Some people are insecure and easily threatened by people they perceive to be intelligent. I am accused often of being a fantasy football fan and I have played it once back in 2005 and I didn't like it at all, to much work for me. Just the same I'm not sure why being a fantasy football fan is this boards version of calling a girl ugly to her face, it is probably one of the most popular sporting hobbies in the world.

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I don't like putting people on ignore because most people on here make good points, including Joker - particularly during pre-season. But at the end of the day, if he wants to continue embarrassing himself with regards to me, I'm happy to continue pointing that out too him. It's up to him how our interactions progress from here.

woolster22 said:

So you agree a lead back helps (why else mention it re Blount?)? But I'm wrong either way because we didn't run at all. We ran 26 (plus Brady's three) times to 35 (38 if you flip Brady's runs).

We did run the ball. However, the scheme and personnel decisions largely lead to that being ineffective. If we came out with a heavy set and Develin in the backfield with Blount/GRAY (im starting to think Blount sucks at reading blocks, hence he rarely has a fullback in front of him and explains the inexplicable ****yfooting at the los. Or maybe it is confidence in the reads?) and established (or tried to) the run, it would not have been more effective than that pitiful first half performance?

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I am really done arguing this, but I never once said the Pats shouldn't use a lead back. In fact, I said it was a reason why the Pats turned around in the second half.

The bottom line is the Pats killed the Dolphins without running ball much at all.

Rob0729 said:

I am really done arguing this, but I never once said the Pats shouldn't use a lead back. In fact, I said it was a reason why the Pats turned around in the second half.

The bottom line is the Pats killed the Dolphins without running ball much at all.

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You are right. They didn't run much at all. Simply 45% of the time. And it should have been much more.

Joker said:

BTW, hate to break in on the RB tempest BUT...I have not seen any replays yet of the TD "catch" by Wallace at the end of the half. EYESIGHT in real time from close I CAN tell all of you, that was no TD. He landed all kinds of body parts out of bounds as he brought that ball under control. Besides that, he blatantly pushed off and got no call. Sure I'm a homer but I'm not blind. I know what I SAW. All I can think is they wanted to keep the Fins in the game for the 2nd half. In fact, that crew made more than a few weirdo calls the first half.

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It was a spectacular catch and a veritable TD.

manxman2601 said:

In our last three interactions you have:

1. Accused me of being a fantasy football 'expert'. I've never played it at all.

2. Accused me of being a CFL 'expert'. I've never watched a game and know nothing about the sport.

3. Accused me of liking Patterson over Collins. Since the moment that trade and pick was made, I have been a consistent 100% supporter of the Collins pick.

I am one of the biggest homers on this forum. I have never criticised a draft pick. I have never criticised a single transaction (I don't think). The reason is that I don't think I'm qualified to criticise BB and so I don't.

As for being a "knower of all things NFL personnel", show me where I demonstrate that. I focus on the draft and I've had some successes in terms of scouting potential prospects but I've also had failures which I've been open about.

I only have negative interactions with you and one other poster. Personally I don't think that's on me after all, you initiate every single one.




No. And that's not through lack of interest, that's because I live in the UK.

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I'm not accusing you of anything...I'm responding, albeit with some derision , to posts YOU make that give a distinct impression that you DO fancy yourself a maven of CFL personnel and that you DO question whether Collins is a better pick than Patterson. I read your printed English, see no smiley face to indicate sarcasm, therefore I HAVE to assume you are serious.

I'm not going to create and wage a "30 years war" over the football equivalent of Protestantism vs. Catholicism . So, in the spirit of detente I will make you this offer. YOU pay your own air fare over here to the colonies and I will pay for your stay in a first class Boston hotel, provide transportation to and from the game and provide you with two seats (probably nosebleeds but hey....). I am of the firm belief that any true Patriots fan should be able to experience the Pats live and in person at least once in their lifetimes and since I'm not taking any of my bullion with me to the Big Razor In The Sky, it seems only fair I do something positive to assuage this bad blood that has gotten between us. Fair enough? I AM the Joker but I do NOT joke around about stuff like this. Ask anybody here that knows me.

I don't like the execution of the running game.....it seems lackadaisical especially with Blount in there. Gray looks sharper...... I'm hoping he gets back to being the top back

shmessy said:

It was a spectacular catch and a veritable TD.

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I just saw the replay. Do you think that every ref crew would have made that decision? Remember, you need irrefutable evidence to overturn. I think that call can go either way, however, the point should have been moot since there was definitely a push off by Wallace. Aaaarghhh...who cares...it pizzed me off when I saw it live and I carried that anger throughout the halftime. Homers are like that.

Rob0729 said:

I was saying Vereen was in at RB because he is proven player who is a proven weapon for the Pats. I never said how either way. He is a run and pass threat. Depending on what the Pats' game plan was, they may wanted that versatility. Even though he is much better receiver than runner.

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Who cares if he is a "proven player". He isn't a proven player on first down carries into the line. He's a 3rd down back adept at catching out of the backfield, running wide or draws.

Devin McCourty is also a proven player for the Pats. He's another player I don't want to see carrying the ball into the line on 1st down.

99% of everyone else here can see that very clearly.

Better question is why you think it is a good idea for Gray not to see the field.

woolster22 said:

You are right. They didn't run much at all. Simply 45% of the time. And it should have been much more.

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Take out Brady's three runs (they weren't designed runs) and the five runs that Gray ran in garbage time and they ran 20 times which isn't much especially when they threw 35 times.

Hard to argue it should have been much more when the Pats scored 34 points on offense (although one TD was a gift by the defense). They should have made more of their opportunities though.

shmessy said:

Who cares if he is a "proven player". He isn't a proven player on first down carries into the line. He's a 3rd down back adept at catching out of the backfield, running wide or draws.

Devin McCourty is also a proven player for the Pats. He's another player I don't want to see carrying the ball into the line on 1st down.

99% of everyone else here can see that very clearly.

Better question is why you think it is a good idea for Gray not to see the field.

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I never said that Gray should never see the field. I said I think people overrate him. I said I think Blount is better. Still do.

If I end up being wrong, then I end up being wrong.

Joker said:

I'm not accusing you of anything...I'm responding, albeit with some derision , to posts YOU make that give a distinct impression that you DO fancy yourself a maven of CFL personnel and that you DO question whether Collins is a better pick than Patterson. I read your printed English, see no smiley face to indicate sarcasm, therefore I HAVE to assume you are serious.

I'm not going to create and wage a "30 years war" over the football equivalent of Protestantism vs. Catholicism . So, in the spirit of detente I will make you this offer. YOU pay your own air fare over here to the colonies and I will pay for your stay in a first class Boston hotel, provide transportation to and from the game and provide you with two seats (probably nosebleeds but hey....). I am of the firm belief that any true Patriots fan should be able to experience the Pats live and in person at least once in their lifetimes and since I'm not taking any of my bullion with me to the Big Razor In The Sky, it seems only fair I do something positive to assuage this bad blood that has gotten between us. Fair enough? I AM the Joker but I do NOT joke around about stuff like this. Ask anybody here that knows me.

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I genuinely believe you and appreciate the offer but I can't take you up on it for family reasons. I missed out when the Pats visited Wembley (I did the sit at the laptop whacking refresh thing) and I give you my word, if the Patriots come back to Wembley I will do the same thing all over again. I watched very Wembley game before the Pats one and you can't know how pissed off I was that I couldn't get there.

For some reason you have got me wrong. I am very happy to firstly apologise for the way I speak to you and to put all this in the past and move on. Let's see where we get too.

manxman2601 said:

I appreciate that. It's a shame Joker is too prejudiced to see that I'm almost always positive about the Pats.

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>Taking joker seriously

Rob0729 said:

We don't have much from today. We have six runs. That doesn't tell anyone he should be the lead back. If and when he carries it 15-20 times again, then we have a sample size. He shows some promise, but it isn't enough to draw any conclusions.

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Do you think he should be frozen out of seeing the field for more than one play in 2 and 1/2 games at a time?

Apologies if this has already been posted. Dolphins' fans pissed @ Phillip Wheeler for allowing Brady to get the first down on his run.

http://www.finheaven.com/showthread...ip-wheeler&s=42f3d67427b35acaf75156d644791fb4

shmessy said:

It was a spectacular catch and a veritable TD.

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I agree and you know what shmessy I will accept giving up those types of touchdown catches without a peep. If we are only getting beat by spectacular individual efforts by one of the opponents best players we will win far more than we lose.

shmessy said:

Do you think he should be frozen out of seeing the field for more than one play in 2 and 1/2 games at a time?

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I have no idea why he hasn't seen the field. Without knowing why he hadn't seen the field, I don't know. If it was for being late for one practice, than no. If there are other reasons, than maybe, maybe not. Maybe he sucked in practice. Maybe he did something we don't know about that he is being punished for.

But that was never the argument I made.

Rob0729 said:

Take out Brady's three runs (they weren't designed runs) and the five runs that Gray ran in garbage time and they ran 20 times which isn't much especially when they threw 35 times.

Hard to argue it should have been much more when the Pats scored 34 points on offense (although one TD was a gift by the defense). They should have made more of their opportunities though.

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I believe there was another short field in the third after a pick? Think they hit a twenty+ yard play for the score shortly after...could be wrong, but I think I remember a short field (if not Miami territory then +40). This was while listening the car radio while chatting and grilling, so I could very well mistaken.

It is easy to argue that the offense was **** in the first half. That was what I was commenting on then, and that is what I am commenting on now. Before the pick I was ridiculing the game plan, and I stand by that. It is easy to argue that more than fourteen points should have been scored in the first half.

They finally go to a two back set (granted Gronk as the fullback off memory serves), but instead of running the Damn ball, they run a limited option pass (in your defense, I don't remember seeing much of the off side of the play). Pick. Then they tentatively run the ball. If anything, I think I'd flip the apparent rb roles (Blount v Gray). Gray (on limited carries to this point) seems to have much better vision and burst to the hole. This, to me, would lend itself to a superior early game runner. Then you bring in the big(ger) back with better open field speed later in the game to close things out.

Rob0729 said:

I am really done arguing this, but I never once said the Pats shouldn't use a lead back. In fact, I said it was a reason why the Pats turned around in the second half.

The bottom line is the Pats killed the Dolphins without running ball much at all.

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They were getting killed in that first half on offense.

Do you know how they scored all 14 of their points?

Blocked FG for a TD and Harmon's INT down to the 7 yard line.

The Pats offense in the first half was dysfunctional.

manxman2601 said:

I appreciate that. It's a shame Joker is too prejudiced to see that I'm almost always positive about the Pats.

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i think hes joking