Felger and Reiss go at it over Welker

Funktopus · Mar 18, 2013

Clonamery said:
You would have to believe the agent.

I think Dunn is embarassed that he couldn't do better for Wes. I can imagine how I would feel if I was another player relying on Dunn's negotiating skills: Not good. At all.

Calhoun44 · Mar 18, 2013

Has anyone explored the idea that maybe the agent/WW said "don't even make an offer unless it is X dollars per year or X amount of years. If you do we won't even consider it a real offer". I can't imagine BB/Patriots feeding a story to the media because the only purpose that serves (as far as I know) is it satisfies the fans. I don't think BB runs the team that way. I really hope BB writes a tell all book someday, the secrecy surrounding this team adds to the intrigue.

BSR · Mar 18, 2013

borg said:
Full link of story penned by Curran with this snippet...

"No offer was ever made, Dunn contends. Period.

If that were the case, there was no two-year, $10 million offer plus incentives that could have pumped the deal up to $16 million.

That offer was reported by Mike Reiss of ESPNBoston, who wrote on Friday, "The last proposal from the Patriots was a two-year, $10 million pact that could have been worth up to $16 million with incentives (although in Welker's eyes a good chunk of those would have been tough to reach)."

If there were no offer, it confounds how Reiss would be able to report that the incentives in a non-existent offer were unattainable in the eyes of Welker."

Agent maintains Patriots didn't want Welker | Comcast SportsNet - CSNNE.com

Its amazing how you believe every single thing that fits your agenda. Its been reported by MULTIPLE sources that the patriots and Welker's agents were talking. What do you think they were talking about? Skiing, golf, price of tea in china? Obviously, they were negotiating a potential contract and more than likely numbers were being tossed back and forth. This is agent double talk because no FORMAL offer was given, but why would you give a formal offer if you know it isn't going to be accepted since the numbers are so far apart? The "formal offer" was also the precise language used by Ian Rapport in his report from Dunn. But even he didn't contend there were no negotiations. Also look at the Reiss quote, see how he uses the word "proposal" and not "offer"? The point was that the Patriots were still negotiating with him.

Stop being such an agent tool.

convertedpatsfan · Mar 18, 2013

borg said:
More interesting to me is how the boys at Comcast... Felger, Mas and Curran... are going after Reiss in a not so subtle manner.

One point...Can we now all agree that the Reiss sourcing for his WW stories is clearly the NEP.

Sure. Again, it's a point in his favour that he has an actual source who is actually involved for his stories.

We should also now agree that Felger's sourcing for his WW stories is clearly his own ass.

goheels22002 · Mar 18, 2013

mgteich said:
C) The BOTTOM LINE is that the agent screwed the pooch by not accepting the deal last year, and mis-read the market after talking to Denver in the legal tampering period this year. Or, perhaps the agent presented things correctly to Welker, and Welker simply decided that he'd rather play for Denver than New England, and that he preferred Denver to other teams, regardless of the money.

Not entirely. Wes Welker was offered a total of $16 million for two years before the 2012 season. He rejected that and signed a franchise tender with the presumption that negotiations would continue. They did not.

So, Welker was paid $9.5 million in 2012 and offered $10 million guaranteed by the Patriots, or $19 million over three years - a smidge over $6 million/year.

In the end Welker got $12 million guaranteed, so combined with the $9.5 for 2012, Welker makes $21.5 for the period 2012 to 2014, more than $7.16 million/year.

The outcome of $7.166/year average for the three-year period is better than your usual salary for a slot receiver, but less than the over-inflated top wideout salary. It's a messy process, but I think we know that $7 million/year is the market for top flight slot receivers.

One last point: if Danny Amendola collects all $31 million of his five-year deal, he'll make $6.2 million/year during the height of his career. A fair deal and a good one for both sides.

Patsrock · Mar 18, 2013

borg said:
Full link of story penned by Curran with this snippet...

"No offer was ever made, Dunn contends. Period.

If that were the case, there was no two-year, $10 million offer plus incentives that could have pumped the deal up to $16 million.

That offer was reported by Mike Reiss of ESPNBoston, who wrote on Friday, "The last proposal from the Patriots was a two-year, $10 million pact that could have been worth up to $16 million with incentives (although in Welker's eyes a good chunk of those would have been tough to reach)."

If there were no offer, it confounds how Reiss would be able to report that the incentives in a non-existent offer were unattainable in the eyes of Welker."

Agent maintains Patriots didn't want Welker | Comcast SportsNet - CSNNE.com

Yeah an Agent who honestly mis-read the market would never ever lie about anything related to his player. And the agent knows the Pats won't respond in public to his comment.

JMC00 · Mar 18, 2013

lol Squeaky doesn't even think Adrian Wilson is gonna make the roster. Doesn't seem him as a significant addition. Would rather have Pollard.

That's how much these guys really know about football. next to nothing

captain stone · Mar 18, 2013

borg said:
More interesting to me is how the boys at Comcast... Felger, Mas and Curran... are going after Reiss in a not so subtle manner.

One point...Can we now all agree that the Reiss sourcing for his WW stories is clearly the NEP.

I didn't infer from the above snippet that Curran was going after Reiss;
it read to me as if there was indeed an offer, and that the Welker side found the incentives
contained therein unattainable; therefore, in the eyes of the Welker side, no practical offer
was ever then made.

Joker · Mar 18, 2013

Let's not forget who I consider to be the most affected people in all this..

US...the Patriots fans...the same people who ultimately are the ones who PAY poor ittle wittle hurt "feewings" Wes the millions of dollars he makes to play a kid's game.

Welker left saying only this.."I'm going to miss Tommy"....yeah...uh....hello?????...uh...hey Wes...look...over here!!!...see US????? see the millions of Patriots fans who have supported you and cheered for you and PAID your salary these past six years????...anything you want to say to US?...or about US????....we're waiting..tap....tap...tap...tap.....

and Wes' the Wonderful's response?????????????????

so...storm off in a huff to take 2 million MORE over two years than here? BRILLIANT!!!!

Let me make an analogy, sort of...try to follow my twisted logic, please...it's the WAY I SEE IT....

Pedro goes to the Mets...OK...it's business...he wasn't happy about it but they parted ways....he LOVED the Red Sox fans....he comes back later in his career to standing ovations and open love....he's working NOW as a consultant for the Red Sox.

Johnny Damon essentially does the same exact thing Welker has done here...goes to the hated Yankees for a few million more....shaves his beard, cuts his hair, has a press conference during which he exclaims "I'M a TRUE YANKEE now!!!"...yeah, they use him up and unceremoniously give him the boot. He was MADE in Boston...he was part of a once in a lifetime experience...his goodwill here was incalculable...the love a tangible thing from the fans...and he did the EXACT same thing that Welker has done. John Damon comes here to Fenway and one would think there's 39,000 snakes hissing in the stands. He is DONE as a viable Boston sports figure. He has ZERO image to try to bank in NYC. He SCREWED HIMSELF. The idiot we all loved proved to be an idiot we all can't stand now.

Pedro, si...Damon, no

Willie McG, si...Welker, no

here's my biggest beef with all this "Welker's gone...waaah...waaah!!!" crap....is he a GOOD receiver? ...yes

Is he a GREAT receiver? well I consider great to be a receiver who MAKES THE CATCHES in the Super Bowl and AFC Championship games, not the one remembered for CRUCIAL DROPS...

Troy Aikman and Michael Irvin, Super Bowl XXVII...THAT is a great WR

John Elway and Rod Smith, Super Bowl XXXIII
Elway was named Super Bowl MVP, the oldest ever, throwing for 336 yards, one touchdown and one interception. Rod Smith was Elway's main target, catching five balls for 152 yards and Elway's lone touchdown

Terry Bradshaw and Lynn Swann, Super Bowl X...really, what can I add to Swann's performance...THAT is what a great WR does in the Super Bowl...THAT

Super Bowl XXIII - 49ers 20, Bengals 16 Montana to Rice

With this game legends were made and Hall of Fame busts officially ordered for a trio of 49ers, from head coach Bill Walsh (who retired after his third Super Bowl triumph) to WR Jerry Rice (Super Bowl MVP, 215 receiving yards) and, of course, QB Joe Montana (pictured). This game helped relaunch the Niners as the team to beat for the next 2-3 seasons, but the Niners actually trailed late in the fourth quarter, 16-13. Ever the epitome of "Joe Cool," Montana was unstoppable on the final 92-yard drive and hit John Taylor for the championship touchdown with just eight seconds left — the third of Montana's four Super Bowl titles.
Rice, Taylor, Dwight Clark...every single one a GREAT wide receiver who played BIG BIG BIG in the the biggest of games.

In fact,Deion Branch, our own Deion, had a spectacular performance at WR for us with all the chips on the line...has everyone crying and moaning over poor Welky forgotten THAT brilliant, BIG TIME performance in the ultimate game?

So please, good luck to Wes Welker...who knows, maybe he can grab a few local Denver spots pitching cars for Elway after his playing days are done...but don't ever come back HERE selling anything, Wes, because you are nothing but another Damonesque sellout, as far as I'm concerned. Hey, maybe you and Seymour can buy a vineyard out west and start making your own special brand of whine.

Tunescribe · Mar 18, 2013

Joker said:
Let's not forget who I consider to be the most affected people in all this..

US...the Patriots fans...the same people who ultimately are the ones who PAY poor ittle wittle hurt "feewings" Wes the millions of dollars he makes to play a kid's game.

Welker left saying only this.."I'm going to miss Tommy"....yeah...uh....hello?????...uh...hey Wes...look...over here!!!...see US????? see the millions of Patriots fans who have supported you and cheered for you and PAID your salary these past six years????...anything you want to say to US?...or about US????....we're waiting..tap....tap...tap...tap.....

and Wes' the Wonderful's response?????????????????

so...storm off in a huff to take 2 million MORE over two years than here? BRILLIANT!!!!

Let me make an analogy, sort of...try to follow my twisted logic, please...it's the WAY I SEE IT....

Pedro goes to the Mets...OK...it's business...he wasn't happy about it but they parted ways....he LOVED the Red Sox fans....he comes back later in his career to standing ovations and open love....he's working NOW as a consultant for the Red Sox.

Johnny Damon essentially does the same exact thing Welker has done here...goes to the hated Yankees for a few million more....shaves his beard, cuts his hair, has a press conference during which he exclaims "I'M a TRUE YANKEE now!!!"...yeah, they use him up and unceremoniously give him the boot. He was MADE in Boston...he was part of a once in a lifetime experience...his goodwill here was incalculable...the love a tangible thing from the fans...and he did the EXACT same thing that Welker has done. John Damon comes here to Fenway and one would think there's 39,000 snakes hissing in the stands. He is DONE as a viable Boston sports figure. He has ZERO image to try to bank in NYC. He SCREWED HIMSELF. The idiot we all loved proved to be an idiot we all can't stand now.

Pedro, si...Damon, no

Willie McG, si...Welker, no

here's my biggest beef with all this "Welker's gone...waaah...waaah!!!" crap....is he a GOOD receiver? ...yes

Is he a GREAT receiver? well I consider great to be a receiver who MAKES THE CATCHES in the Super Bowl and AFC Championship games, not the one remembered for CRUCIAL DROPS...

Troy Aikman and Michael Irvin, Super Bowl XXVII...THAT is a great WR

John Elway and Rod Smith, Super Bowl XXXIII
Elway was named Super Bowl MVP, the oldest ever, throwing for 336 yards, one touchdown and one interception. Rod Smith was Elway's main target, catching five balls for 152 yards and Elway's lone touchdown

Terry Bradshaw and Lynn Swann, Super Bowl X...really, what can I add to Swann's performance...THAT is what a great WR does in the Super Bowl...THAT

Super Bowl XXIII - 49ers 20, Bengals 16 Montana to Rice

With this game legends were made and Hall of Fame busts officially ordered for a trio of 49ers, from head coach Bill Walsh (who retired after his third Super Bowl triumph) to WR Jerry Rice (Super Bowl MVP, 215 receiving yards) and, of course, QB Joe Montana (pictured). This game helped relaunch the Niners as the team to beat for the next 2-3 seasons, but the Niners actually trailed late in the fourth quarter, 16-13. Ever the epitome of "Joe Cool," Montana was unstoppable on the final 92-yard drive and hit John Taylor for the championship touchdown with just eight seconds left — the third of Montana's four Super Bowl titles.
Rice, Taylor, Dwight Clark...every single one a GREAT wide receiver who played BIG BIG BIG in the the biggest of games.

In fact,Deion Branch, our own Deion, had a spectacular performance at WR for us with all the chips on the line...has everyone crying and moaning over poor Welky forgotten THAT brilliant, BIG TIME performance in the ultimate game?

So please, good luck to Wes Welker...who knows, maybe he can grab a few local Denver spots pitching cars for Elway after his playing days are done...but don't ever come back HERE selling anything, Wes, because you are nothing but another Damonesque sellout, as far as I'm concerned. Hey, maybe you and Seymour can buy a vineyard out west and start making your own special brand of whine.

Good rant, J. Here's the bottom line as I see it: Wes Welker is not the sharpest knife in the drawer. He IS a gifted athlete with exceptional toughness and huge heart. He definitely will be missed here. But, we need to remember that he could still be a Patriot if he wanted to albeit $2 million "poorer" (if that indeed is the case). Wes's biggest misstep was letting his agent lead him around by the nose all the way to Denver. I believe Bob Kraft's assessment today of a situation that never should have played out the way it did.

Joker · Mar 18, 2013

You are probably right...I tend to forget football players are not necessarily on any MENSA waiting list...and I didn't mention his agent because that clown doesn't deserve mention...and probably will be out of the agent business in a few years. Perhaps the Rocky Mountain air will clear the cobwebs in Welker's head and he'll make some kind of fan reconciliation gesture. I'm not going to waste my time waiting for it though.

I decided today how I feel about this whole dog and pony show...after thinking on it and reading all the sides to it. Stupid move. No matter how I slice it it's still a plate of shyt.

Tunescribe · Mar 18, 2013

Joker said:
You are probably right...I tend to forget football players are not necessarily on any MENSA waiting list...and I didn't mention his agent because that clown doesn't deserve mention...and probably will be out of the agent business in a few years. Perhaps the Rocky Mountain air will clear the cobwebs in Welker's head and he'll make some kind of fan reconciliation gesture. I'm not going to waste my time waiting for it though.

I decided today how I feel about this whole dog and pony show...after thinking on it and reading all the sides to it. Stupid move. No matter how I slice it it's still a plate of shyt.

"Stupid move" is right. The biggest dummy of all was Wes's agent, then Wes himself. A distant third was the Patriots, who didn't exactly cover themselves with glory with the outcome but definitely DID NOT low-ball Welker out of town as some are claiming.

Joker · Mar 18, 2013

The Patriots get the blame for the whole mess GETTING to this fail safe point...for some reason that we may never know in THIS life, they declined to sign him to an extension last season and used the tag instead. OK...9.5 mil isn't chump change but the guy wanted security at a fair price. Welker performed well over his pay grade to that point...why the foot dragging on settling the issue and moving forward is beyond my ken as a fan.

Tunescribe · Mar 18, 2013

Joker said:
The Patriots get the blame for the whole mess GETTING to this fail safe point...for some reason that we may never know in THIS life, they declined to sign him to an extension last season and used the tag instead. OK...9.5 mil isn't chump change but the guy wanted security at a fair price. Welker performed well over his pay grade to that point...why the foot dragging on settling the issue and moving forward is beyond my ken as a fan.

But the way I read it, Welker's agent was angling for a big free-agency cashin-in from the start. That's why he turned down a prior offer from the Pats (before they franchised him) that would've far exceeded what he ended up getting from Denver. The agent grossly misjudged the market. When he was out there tilting at windmills the Pats had to snag Amendola or else lose him as well. It really comes down to the agent running the show and Wes letting him do it.

Bella*chick · Mar 18, 2013

And while it's true that the Pats did not cloak themselves in glory in handling this, they would have looked like the biggest fools had they lost out on Amendola, too. The way I see, there was no way Welker wasn't going to test the market. The Patriots acted to protect themselves. It sucks, but there it is.

Tunescribe · Mar 18, 2013

Bella*chick said:
And while it's true that the Pats did not cloak themselves in glory in handling this, they would have looked like the biggest fools had they lost out on Amendola, too. The way I see, there was no way Welker wasn't going to test the market. The Patriots acted to protect themselves. It sucks, but there it is.

Which, once again, boils down to Welker's agent misleading him into believing the market was much greater than what panned out. Wes still could have told his agent to get what he could out of the Patriots and be done with it.

Joker · Mar 18, 2013

I think I found a pic of Welker's agent...

Bella*chick · Mar 18, 2013

Tunescribe said:
Which, once again, boils down to Welker's agent misleading him into believing the market was much greater than what panned out. Wes still could have told his agent to get what he could out of the Patriots and be done with it.

Yup. I don't believe his agent even a little bit. He sounds overly defensive which I would be too if I knew I screwed up.

captain stone · Mar 19, 2013

Joker said:
I think I found a pic of Welker's agent...

...or, as Lisa Douglas would say, Hootersville Rutabagas.

naF staP · Mar 19, 2013

Joker said:
The Patriots get the blame for the whole mess GETTING to this fail safe point...for some reason that we may never know in THIS life, they declined to sign him to an extension last season and used the tag instead. OK...9.5 mil isn't chump change but the guy wanted security at a fair price. Welker performed well over his pay grade to that point...why the foot dragging on settling the issue and moving forward is beyond my ken as a fan.

Spot on!! Couldn't have said it better. If they would have wanted to keep him they would have paid a little more to keep him. It wouldn't have taken much. Just another example of the Patriots bullying the players. In the end we all lose! Team, Welker, fans!!

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