How to Pay Back Specter and STOP the Witch Hunt

[roman_maroney]

Some of us WANT the investigation. We want the league to satisfy these people, and thoroughly go over the super bowl years. If not, the speculation will go on forever. Something may or may not come out, thats the chance you take in vindication. But the moment Specter, and more importantly Kurt Warner says "Im satisfied. All I wanted them to do was look deeper, and I'm satisfied they did" the country will have to shut up. Easterbrook will have to find a new target. It will be over. I just want it to be over.

 

[Bella*chick]

Some of us WANT the investigation. We want the league to satisfy these people, and thoroughly go over the super bowl years. If not, the speculation will go on forever. Something may or may not come out, thats the chance you take in vindication. But the moment Specter, and more importantly Kurt Warner says "Im satisfied. All I wanted them to do was look deeper, and I'm satisfied they did" the country will have to shut up. Easterbrook will have to find a new target. It will be over. I just want it to be over.

The speculation will never, ever go away. I want this over now. We have been unfairly singled out all damn year long. Enough is ENOUGH.

 

[EasyMac]

We have been unfairly singled out all damn year long.

Agreed... I am so tired of all the self-righteousness out there, as in, "How Dare THEY!!" when all teams have been doing the same thing for eons. Not saying that breaking the rules is to be condoned... just saying that what the Pats did isn't unique to the Pats.

 

[roman_maroney]

The speculation will never, ever go away. I want this over now. We have been unfairly singled out all damn year long. Enough is ENOUGH.

My point is, and I'm going to be frank here...

I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that this Walsh "source" is a shady piece of garbage who has NOTHING. Taking off my patriots glasses, and looking at it from the perspective of my co-workers, for example, who are not Patriot haters, were very supportive (I live and work in Orlando) this year and actually rooting for them to make history. They want to know why, simply put, Goodell did not give what they consider a satisfactory answer on the rams allegation, due to the fact that he had not contacted key sources. It is not unreasonable to think that way. While I agree the senate has no business in this, it may be the only way to get it done on a level the HAS to be taken at face value by America. The undecideds are shifting to the view that this is a cover up, and to be honest... shoe on the other foot, so would I at this point. As a fan of sport, honor is a huge factor for me. Right now we have none, outside of our relatively small community of Patriots nation. I want our honor back. If they DID perform a thorough investigation, which they very well may have, they can present it to Specter, a senate committe, (they havent been able to present one to the media... face it, that is the fact), or whoever. If they didnt, then investivate. Get it out there. While I agree that "the speculation will never, ever, go away", there is only one thing that can soften the argument that the Patriots cheated on one (or 3) super bowls. Unfortunately, that thing is a thorough investigation that PROVES this is a witch hunt. In this day and age of the court of public opinion, the burden of proof is on the accused. Thats just the way it is. It sucks, but its true. Defend our Honor. Without it, you have nothing.

 

[Bella*chick]

My point is, and I'm going to be frank here...

I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that this Walsh "source" is a shady piece of garbage who has NOTHING. Taking off my patriots glasses, and looking at it from the perspective of my co-workers, for example, who are not Patriot haters, were very supportive (I live and work in Orlando) this year and actually rooting for them to make history. They want to know why, simply put, Goodell did not give what they consider a satisfactory answer on the rams allegation, due to the fact that he had not contacted key sources. It is not unreasonable to think that way. While I agree the senate has no business in this, it may be the only way to get it done on a level the HAS to be taken at face value by America. The undecideds are shifting to the view that this is a cover up, and to be honest... shoe on the other foot, so would I at this point. As a fan of sport, honor is a huge factor for me. Right now we have none, outside of our relatively small community of Patriots nation. I want our honor back. If they DID perform a thorough investigation, which they very well may have, they can present it to Specter, a senate committe, (they havent been able to present one to the media... face it, that is the fact), or whoever. If they didnt, then investivate. Get it out there. While I agree that "the speculation will never, ever, go away", there is only one thing that can soften the argument that the Patriots cheated on one (or 3) super bowls. Unfortunately, that thing is a thorough investigation that PROVES this is a witch hunt. In this day and age of the court of public opinion, the burden of proof is on the accused. Thats just the way it is. It sucks, but its true. Defend our Honor. Without it, you have nothing.

Well, since ESPN is reporting the NFL is going to talk to Walsh, this can of worms is going to be opened. I hope we all like what we see.

 

[Rob0729]

Some of us WANT the investigation. We want the league to satisfy these people, and thoroughly go over the super bowl years. If not, the speculation will go on forever. Something may or may not come out, thats the chance you take in vindication. But the moment Specter, and more importantly Kurt Warner says "Im satisfied. All I wanted them to do was look deeper, and I'm satisfied they did" the country will have to shut up. Easterbrook will have to find a new target. It will be over. I just want it to be over.

Because evidence was destroyed and some of the allegations were so old, people like Easterbrook will never be satisfied with the outcome unless the Pats and Belichick are punished beyond the point of anything remotely fair. They can investigate the Pats for years and spend millions of dollars and find absolutely nothing, but a segment of the public will say that it is because the Pats and/or the league already destroyed any evidence. The only evidence this crowd will believe is evidence implicating the Pats in wrong doing.

The Pats will never be able to clear themselves with a large portion of the public. If Matt Walsh ends up throwing around wild accusations that are unsupported by any shread of evidence, they will believe that over anything Goodell, Kraft, or Belichick will say. If it comes out that Walsh was fired for good reason like doing something illegal or violating league rules, it will be spun that the Pats are just trying to discredit Walsh to make him shut up.

The Pats cannot clear their name with a Senate hearing. They can only be tarnished more than they have been. You cannot prove a tape of the Rams' walkthrough never existed even if it never existed. Baseless rumors to the contrary will carry more weight than the fact that there is absolutely no evidence to support it because these type of rumors cannot be disproven with hard evidence.

 

[Rob0729]

Well, since ESPN is reporting the NFL is going to talk to Walsh, this can of worms is going to be opened. I hope we all like what we see.

The problem with Walsh is that if he is throwing around BS and it gets out, it can be just as damaging as the truth. ProFootballTalk has reported that someone is selling their Super Bowl ring on eBay for $125k and it could be Walsh. If he is in it for the money and he can find a way to get around his non-disclosure, he is likely to throw around wild accusations that cannot be proven or disproven.


P.S. on the subject of the non-disclosure, Tom Jackson on NFL Countdown asked why he would be asked to sign one if he didn't have dirt. I find that logic ludicrious. First, many companies ask terminated and people who leave on their own terms to sign a non-disclosure these days. I bet Kraft has people sign non-disclosures with his paper company too. Second, Walsh was working with the scouting department when he left. He could have scouting information that they didn't want out. Jackson acted as if Walsh was still just a cameraman when he was fired.

 

[patriotfan32]

The thing that worries me is that in the Tomase article, the source which is obviously Walsh, says that the tape may have been taken or videotaped without the team's knowledge. So its possible that this man may have done this on his own accord to basically make a name for himself.

 

[roman_maroney]

Those rumors already exist. If your reasoning is that you don't want more to come to light, thats not very strong. It's all gonna come to light whether its "on the record" or "off the record". I would rather it be on the record. That is what would have prevented stuff like that vague infamous Tomase article, and many more to come, that will not be based on any sort of merit or creedence and the steve youngs of this world have taken at face value. Of course, Walsh might just spurt more lies, but he's more likely to lie to a Peter Griffin looking tabloid hack glorified blogger than he is to the senate. Sure, we all might be afraid of what we might find out, but I'd rather that be the case than to run from it.

 

[BigMike]

Walsh is meeting with NFL Security

They will then interview PAts officials

Then the league has to mete some kinf o "punishment" or not do anything.

Its kind of sad there is a witch hunt over an alleged incident from 6 years ago.

 

[Rob0729]

Those rumors already exist. If your reasoning is that you don't want more to come to light, thats not very strong. It's all gonna come to light whether its "on the record" or "off the record". I would rather it be on the record. That is what would have prevented stuff like that vague infamous Tomase article, and many more to come, that will not be based on any sort of merit or creedence and the steve youngs of this world have taken at face value. Of course, Walsh might just spurt more lies, but he's more likely to lie to a Peter Griffin looking tabloid hack glorified blogger than he is to the senate. Sure, we all might be afraid of what we might find out, but I'd rather that be the case than to run from it.

So if Walsh goes in front of congress and tells lies about the Patriots that he knows can't be disproven, how is that a good thing? The longer this lingers and more allegations get out, the more people are going to be convinced the Pats are guilty. It is going to be near impossible for the Pats to prove that they didn't tape the Rams' walkthrough. There is probably nothing they can do now to convince anyone they didn't. A guy like Walsh can make more people believe that they did though.

The Pats can't win with this story going. It at best will not change people's opinions on whether they did some of this and at worst they can turn more people against them.

Look at this way. Tom Cruise has been rumored to be gay for years. Eventhough he has been married three times and had a child with Katie Holmes and there has been no credible proof that he is gay, there is still a large portion of the public who still think he is gay. You cannot disprove a rumor.

 

[roman_maroney]

I have every confidence in the Kraft group and their legal team that they have known about Walsh's media escapade going back to September, what his claims are, and what they need to do to discredit them. Stacey James has a tough job. Being in the public and media relations field (USAF), the first thing I look at when I see a controversy brewing in anything newsworthy is the initial "general statement". This statement is calculated by several sources through the public relations department using a few key components. One of the important components is "backlash effect", or simply put, does our statement dig us a hole? If you believe it may, you use a lighter phrasing and vaguer innuendo while still displaying innocence. The Patriots general statement left me very pleased given the "absolute" qualities, not implied, but stated.

 

[Stan Musial Jr.]

To the top poster: I understand your frustration as a Pats fan over this, but really, trying to smear another team isn't going to accomplish much -- except make you look worse.

First of all, Specter is a PHILLY fan, and really wouldn't care about the Steelers. Second of all, Jim Haslett is about as credible a witness as your local wino -- he played in the 1980s for the Buffalo Bills. He neither played for Pittsburgh, nor was even in the right decade. By the way, he's also since apologized publicly for making such blind allegations -- feel free to look it up.

Not only that, but keep in mind steroids weren't against the rules back then, so there's nothing to prosecute even if such allegations were true. Furthermore, whatever anabolic substances were used back then, you can be sure they weren't confined to just one team.

 

[RIVA Pats Fan]

How is noting the death of all those players from Steroid use smearing? Even Danny White from the Cowboys mentioned that he took steroids after seeing the effect it had on the Steelers teams as he lined up against them.

Of ocurse, Specter is a Philly fan and not a Steelers fan, but as somebody else claimed, a scorched Earth policy on this will either draw back some criticism, result in a blowback to Specter from his constitutents and put the Patriots scandal in its proper perspective.

Last I checked, the "everybody was doing it defense" doesn't seem to stop the Patriot haters around the country. So how does it qualify for a defense for the Steelers? And were they not the team that pioneered steroids for all professional sports?

 

[shmessy]

Honestly, RIVA, are you on Specter's payroll?

The most damaging connection that he wants not to be discussed is Comcast. Plain and simple, it is influence peddling. ABSCAM was on the same level.

The Comcast Money is what can damage Specter.

Being a biased fan can't.

......but keep playing up the whole "fan" aspect. Joe and Jospehine Pats fan seem to be eating it up.

 

[Marko]

We should all email Specter and claim that we might have had Andy Reid and the Eagles employ us to spy/tape on the Pats before the 2005 SB. See if he even check's it out I doubt it! if he does just say I said I might have been employed by the team.

 

[Stan Musial Jr.]

Last I checked, the "everybody was doing it defense" doesn't seem to stop the Patriot haters around the country. So how does it qualify for a defense for the Steelers? And were they not the team that pioneered steroids for all professional sports?

No, they certainly were not. Steroids have been around in the NFL at least since the 1950s, and it's actually the San Diego Chargers of the early '60s who brought it into the league big time. (I invite you to look it up.)

The "everybody was doing it" isn't really a defense, it's a statement of fact. You can't compare it to the Spygate thing, which is hidden and illegal -- whatever anabolic substances were used, it was out in the open and available to anyone. Every team had guys who used them -- that's why there was no competitive advantage. That's a little different from secretly videotaping signals, practices, etc.

 

[shmessy]

The "everybody was doing it" isn't really a defense, it's a statement of fact. You can't compare it to the Spygate thing, which is hidden and illegal -- whatever anabolic substances were used, it was out in the open and available to anyone. Every team had guys who used them -- that's why there was no competitive advantage. That's a little different from secretly videotaping signals, practices, etc.

Boy, are YOU confused.

Spygate was "hidden"????? Estrella was there ON THE FIELD, in front of 75,000 Jets fans, wearing PATRIOTS STAFF clothing.

Did the Steelers take Steroids in the middle of a sold out stadium?

Get a clue before you post nonsense.

Stan, we welcome fans from opposing teams with opposing views as long as they are on the level and not willfully posting misinformation.

 

[BPF]

RIVA, you are missing the real reason - - it's even more sinister than you think.

Follow the money.

Comcast.

The Eagles angle is cute and gets Joe and Josephine Public all upset quickly, but you and they are devouring the Bread and Circus that Specter is trying to fool you with.

Comcast is his #2 money donor (#1 is Comcast's Law Firm, by the way).

This is a Senator who has declared he is no longer seeking re-election in 2010. He is beholden to NO ONE - - except his financer.

You are merely going for his smokescreen if you are going to make your crusade based on "he's a Philly fan".

If you really want to go for his GONADS and the real crime of what he did - - argue for a SENATE INVESTIGATION of his ties to Comcast and his influence peddling on their behalf with the NFL about their TV deal - - and how he had over 150 days to bring up Spygate, yet waited until the very morining of the Super Bowl to threaten Tom Brady.

100% correct, check this out: http://www.attytood.com/2008/02/arlens_tangled_comcastic_mess_1.html

 

[shmessy]

100% correct, check this out: http://www.attytood.com/2008/02/arlens_tangled_comcastic_mess_1.html

BPF, could you PLEASE post this very important article and link as a separate thread?

People must read this!!!!!!!