The official Brandon Meriweather is a bust thread

[Oswlek]

Again, we are talking about playing time when we were up 45-0 against Washington though.

I'm sorry, but people are making too many excuses for Meriweather. Even Warren, who didn't have a great rookie season, started four games and was a rotated in and out quite a bit. It is ok to accept the guy has been a disapointment thus far. It doesn't mean he is going to be a bust, but it does mean he is significantly behind where he should be at this point in his career. He can rebound and become a great player, but he is off to a slow start.

Of course we would all rather see first rounders come in and look great from the start. I just don't think that is ever the expectation for BB/SP, though. I think that, given the choice, BB would always rather see a guy work his way up to speed before hie goes in. I think that (and yes, the sample size is quite small) BB would rather not put any rookies in there if he doesn't have to. Warren only started those games due to Washington's injury. Wilfork only played as much as he did because Traylor had never played 3-4 NT before. Mankins was an exception, but I bet he would have rotated if Andruzzi had stuck around.

This is just the first year that NE doesn't have a clear need for someone to play at the spot of the 1st rounder.

All that said, I can competely accept those wondering why he doesn't get more time in blowouts, but I just don't think BB expected to need him this year. That said, I won't be surprised at all if we see more of him as the year goes on and he gets more comfortable in the scheme.

It is just too early to conculde anything at this point. Maybe Meriweather would look as good as any other first round DB if he was in those schemes, but NE's requires more study. Maybe those teams are willing to accept rookie mistakes because the upside is too good, but BB realizes that rookie mistakes are really the only thing that can kill this team.

There are just too many viable alternatives to him being that much of a disappointment for me to have any concern right now.

 

[mb6592]

Where was the hostility in my post that refers to his "circumstancial" and "anecdotal" points.

I thought that I was very clear in that one could very easily conclude something completely different from the same data. Anecdotal is a completely accurate description of much of what he said, although it doesn't prove him wrong - which I also said.

BTW, you mocking my use of those words is just as silly as any hostility that he incurred.

Your post wasn't hostile, just wrong. Brady-To-Branch stated, "Wilson was starting at FS in 2003. Asante played in dime and nickel packages that same year." How is that anecdotal to the poster's argument? He's stating a fact. How many examples should he give to make his point? But what the hay, I'm silly.

 

[mb6592]

Of course we would all rather see first rounders come in and look great from the start. I just don't think that is ever the expectation for BB/SP, though. I think that, given the choice, BB would always rather see a guy work his way up to speed before hie goes in. I think that (and yes, the sample size is quite small) BB would rather not put any rookies in there if he doesn't have to. Warren only started those games due to Washington's injury. Wilfork only played as much as he did because Traylor had never played 3-4 NT before. Mankins was an exception, but I bet he would have rotated if Andruzzi had stuck around.

This is just the first year that NE doesn't have a clear need for someone to play at the spot of the 1st rounder.

All that said, I can competely accept those wondering why he doesn't get more time in blowouts, but I just don't think BB expected to need him this year. That said, I won't be surprised at all if we see more of him as the year goes on and he gets more comfortable in the scheme.

It is just too early to conculde anything at this point. Maybe Meriweather would look as good as any other first round DB if he was in those schemes, but NE's requires more study. Maybe those teams are willing to accept rookie mistakes because the upside is too good, but BB realizes that rookie mistakes are really the only thing that can kill this team.

There are just too many viable alternatives to him being that much of a disappointment for me to have any concern right now.

excellent post

 

[Oswlek]

Your post wasn't hostile, just wrong. Brady-To-Branch stated, "Wilson was starting at FS in 2003. Asante played in dime and nickel packages that same year." How is that anecdotal to the poster's argument? He's stating a fact. But what the hay, I'm silly.

Using two players in the same draft class (when NE was clearly looking to turn over their secondary) as proof of a theory that DBs have an easier transition that DLs is the quintessential example of anecdotal.

based on personal observation, case study reports, or random investigations rather than systematic scientific evaluation: anecdotal evidence.

or

Based on casual observations or indications rather than rigorous or scientific analysis

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Joker, you have to understand - the mods here, more focused on revenge against an old man than actually, you know, MAINTAINING STANDARDS, don't mind letting the newbie chicken littles run wild with the site. Ian might want to get a bit more involved and the site will rise up to its formerly lofty heights.

What is with this obsession? You're a Full Tilt Full Time rump swab for a guy who has been deservedly banned from every single Pats forum except his own.

This forum needs new posters. A sports opinion forum should be open to occasional posts critical of the players or organization. These newbies do not start 43 threads attacking Josh McDaniels with the same old senile rant posted again and again cut and paste style. What a hypocrite.

 

[mb6592]

Using two players in the same draft class (when NE was clearly looking to turn over their secondary) as proof of a theory that DBs have an easier transition that DLs is the quintessential example of anecdotal.

Agreed, but I don't think that was what the poster was trying to prove. I thought he was trying to show that 1st round rookies have seen a lot of playing time for recent Patriots teams.

 

[mb6592]

based on personal observation, case study reports, or random investigations rather than systematic scientific evaluation: anecdotal evidence.

or


Quote:
Based on casual observations or indications rather than rigorous or scientific analysis

systematic scientific evaluation, rigorous or scientific analysis - you got me. We now have a new standard to meet prior to opining.

 

[Oswlek]

systematic scientific evaluation, rigorous or scientific analysis - you got me. We now have a new standard to meet prior to opining.

Come on, man. I thought we were starting to get along.

Of course "scientific evaluation" isn't going to be done by fans, but we4 can certainly do more than just point at two guys as proof of a leaguewide trend. Again, that is by very definition "anecdotal".

 

[Rob0729]

Of course we would all rather see first rounders come in and look great from the start. I just don't think that is ever the expectation for BB/SP, though. I think that, given the choice, BB would always rather see a guy work his way up to speed before hie goes in. I think that (and yes, the sample size is quite small) BB would rather not put any rookies in there if he doesn't have to. Warren only started those games due to Washington's injury. Wilfork only played as much as he did because Traylor had never played 3-4 NT before. Mankins was an exception, but I bet he would have rotated if Andruzzi had stuck around.

This is just the first year that NE doesn't have a clear need for someone to play at the spot of the 1st rounder.

All that said, I can competely accept those wondering why he doesn't get more time in blowouts, but I just don't think BB expected to need him this year. That said, I won't be surprised at all if we see more of him as the year goes on and he gets more comfortable in the scheme.

It is just too early to conculde anything at this point. Maybe Meriweather would look as good as any other first round DB if he was in those schemes, but NE's requires more study. Maybe those teams are willing to accept rookie mistakes because the upside is too good, but BB realizes that rookie mistakes are really the only thing that can kill this team.

There are just too many viable alternatives to him being that much of a disappointment for me to have any concern right now.

Calling Meriweather a disapointment at this time is not giving up on the guy, but it does call into question on how he is progressing as a player. We can go around in circles why he has been disapointing, but he should be playing more and even when he has been playing he has been a little lost in coverage. That is concerning. We shouldn't label him another Chris Canty at this point, but I don't know why people can't be at least a little concerned about his progression so far.

 

[mb6592]

Come on, man. I thought we were starting to get along.

You're right, sorry.

 

[Oswlek]

Calling Meriweather a disapointment at this time is not giving up on the guy, but it does call into question on how he is progressing as a player. We can go around in circles why he has been disapointing, but he should be playing more and even when he has been playing he has been a little lost in coverage. That is concerning. We shouldn't label him another Chris Canty at this point, but I don't know why people can't be at least a little concerned about his progression so far.

Fair enough. I'm going to keep happily whistling past this graveyard with the comfort of knowing that every BB/SP 1st round has been good at worst.

 

[Oswlek]

BTW, a while ago, Fred Smerlas took a beating around here for saying that Meriweather would flame out of the league within three years and that he will be NE's first obvious bust. So there is one 'insider" who seemed to think that before the season even began, IIRC.

 

[Brady-To-Branch]

This is the second time you have talked about the adjustment periods with no evidence beyond anecdotal, and largely irrelevent, observations about Wilson and Samuel. There is no proof to that statement. Either come with something stronger or stop bringing it up.

Warren played next to nothing for the first portion of the year and was only forced into the lineup when Washington got hurt. He went back to being a role guy when Big Ted returned. Wilfork *clearly* had more opportunity with only a guy who had never played 3-4 NT ahead of him.

Are you really going to point to 2005 as evidence of Sanders' abilities? Meriweather would be starting too under those circumstances.

Maybe Baker is better than you think? Again, BOR was high on him at the end of last year. Also, it seems pretty clear that NE relied solely on guys with more experience in the system against Indy. I don't think it is a coincidence that AD also barely played in that game.

Your comments about decreasing playing time and comparisons to other DBs don't make the point that you are trying to make. Why wouldn't Harrison's return impact Meriweather's playing time? Couldn't Meriweather's lower minutes played help prove that he has guys in front of him?

I am not saying you are wrong, I am saying that you are using a lot of circumstantial, anecdotal and completely incorrect observations to make your point.

Eugene Wilson's 2003 Game Log

Asante Samuel's 2003 Game Log

There's your proof.

 

[Oswlek]

Eugene Wilson's 2003 Game Log

Asante Samuel's 2003 Game Log

There's your proof.

All you are "proving" is that those guys played. I don't think that you get what I am saying.

 

[National Sports Advisors]

The jury is still out on Merriweather. It's too early to say he is a bust and it's too early to say he won't be a bust. It's hard to judge Merriweather when the coaches have asked him to player cornerback, which is something he really didn't do much of in college. I tend to think he will turn out to be ok, but we'll see. It's not like he plays running back where guys come right into this league and DOMINATE from day one, unless of course they are made out of GLASS.

 

[mcbee]

The people who think he's a bust should be beaten. They should give him some playing time, #1. Playing time concentrates the mind like nothing else. It's fine to practice, but how do you motivate yourself for countless practices knowing you probably won't play anyway.

 

[mdhprime]

How can anyone say Merriweather is a bust? The whole idea is ridiculous. There are corners and safeties on the team with years of experience in the Patriots rather complex defense. To expect Merriweather to step in and beat out those players in his rookie year is absurd. Some people's expectations are simply idiotic.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

The people who think he's a bust should be beaten. They should give him some playing time, #1. Playing time concentrates the mind like nothing else. It's fine to practice, but how do you motivate yourself for countless practices knowing you probably won't play anyway.

Any player with that kind of defeatist attitude will never play well enough during the week to get activated to the gameday 46 on a BB team. Do you follow the Patriots much?

 

[patsox23]

What is with this obsession? You're a Full Tilt Full Time rump swab for a guy who has been deservedly banned from every single Pats forum except his own.

I think you guys are unaware of the situation - AS IT IS NOW. NEM has been reinstated. By Ian. And he has been completely different from before. Unfortunately, several posters - the same ones who asked me to "respect Ian's decisions" - are PUMMELING NEM in the visitors area despite his continuing to turn the other cheek and not rise to the bait. Some of the people doing this are Mods using different usernames. It's shameful.

As for "A sports opinion forum should be open to occasional posts critical of the players or organization," I agree. I have no problem with that. I just think a handful of the newbies - along with some short-sighted vets, apparently - are making RIDICULOUS, way WAY premature pronouncements that never would've seen the light of day in years past.

But hey, yeah, great call - let's encourage that, and stoop to the level of F-ing KFFL.




Now, as for this thread specifically, IT'S INSANE TO SAY THAT ANY PLAYER WHO HASN'T PLAYED 3 SEASONS IS A BUST.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I think you guys are unaware of the situation - AS IT IS NOW. NEM has been reinstated. By Ian. And he has been completely different from before. Unfortunately, several posters - the same ones who asked me to "respect Ian's decisions" - are PUMMELING NEM in the visitors area despite his continuing to turn the other cheek and not rise to the bait. Some of the people doing this are Mods using different usernames. It's shameful.

As for "A sports opinion forum should be open to occasional posts critical of the players or organization," I agree. I have no problem with that. I just think a handful of the newbies - along with some short-sighted vets, apparently - are making RIDICULOUS, way WAY premature pronouncements that never would've seen the light of day in years past.

But hey, yeah, great call - let's encourage that, and stoop to the level of F-ing KFFL.

IF Mods are using different user names, isn't that a banable offense?
Or is your tinfoil hat a bit tight?

Newbies bring fresh ideas. Some are not popular ones. Some that aren't well thought out will get pummeled by facts. It's fun to watch that happen. Thankfully, there is no forum censorship for premature ejaculation of opinion. Me I'd rather have a flurry of new thoughts from new members than tired, old same old same old rants posted again and again in "Look at ME!!!" style.