Pot Roast visiting - (UPDATED - He's Reportedly Joining the Team)

[mgteich]

Oh I agree, it's just that any draft pick is going to be DT #5 this year and the second round may be a little rich for that. There are some ideal possibilities there though. For example, Austin Johnson of Penn State would be the perfect long-term Branch replacement. I just wonder whether they might wait to the third or fourth round.

I think it's a given that one of the first two picks goes on an OT. It might be that they go With a more luxury pick with the other (pass rusher/CB/linebacker). But they have plenty of options in the draft so I'm fine with a DT in the 2nd (take advantage of a great class) or with going another way.

I don't think that the end of the 2nd round is too rich for a player expected to be a starter in 2017.

 

[Th3Birdman]

Disagree.
I am a Day One Edelperson fan but I have no animosity towards Welkah.
Yah, I blame him 2/3rds for dropping that SB pass but Brady owns 1/3rd or better for an errant throw.
Do not care about comments he made in the heat of passion.
Wish him the best.

My point was that I forgot about Welker being a so-called "Patriot Killer" that came to us and played well. The reason I forgot about him is because I've mentally erased him from our team's history in my mind. His departure really upset me and his actions immediately after really soured me on him, and THEN he took Talib out of the AFCCG when we were already struggling, so I just do not like Welker at all.

But yes, he was a player that played well against us and well for us.

Not really sure what there is to disagree with, as those are facts.

 

[supafly]

Good point

On the other hand, Knighton and Branch both have deals that end after this season. That makes this a good time to grab a guy that needs another year of development, but will be a legit DT force moving forward, if they think that guy's in this draft.

I love the fact that they can afford that luxury, and are always taking the future into account. It's one of the reasons we shouldn't be surprised to see a BPA selection at any number of (currently) well stocked positions.

Good stuff.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Love this pickup! Pot roast gives us a big body to clog the middle and help stuff the run game. Bb quietly making. Solid moves as usual. We have more freedom on who to draft now although my gut tells me ot and rb are still important needs. But as usual we will draft for best fit rather than just need. Trader bill will be maneuvering as usual! Excited for the draft now that most immediate needs met with free agency.

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Not really sure what there is to disagree with, as those are facts.

Maybe it was when you said you hate him as a human being, and then listed only facts that are about his professional relationship with your favorite team. You would also have to hate Ty Law, Deion Branch, Logan Mankins etc.

Welker maximized his money in a sport whose owners openly lie about concussion risks, and it's widely assumed that he probably took enough hits for that to be a concern. He signed with Denver after being as up front with the Pats as he could be about what it would take to keep him, and Belichick decided to move on as much as Wes did.

That those facts offend you so much that you Hate Him, a wildly emotional and irrational take to have, is quite childish. That could be where the dislike came from.

The only person on Earth that I'm close to hating is my bastard of a landlord, and he hasn't even said mean things about my favorite football team's head coach.

 

[n6249c]

Maybe it was when you said you hate him as a human being, and then listed only facts that are about his professional relationship with your favorite team. You would also have to hate Ty Law, Deion Branch, Logan Mankins etc.

Welker maximized his money in a sport whose owners openly lie about concussion risks, and it's widely assumed that he probably took enough hits for that to be a concern. He signed with Denver after being as up front with the Pats as he could be about what it would take to keep him, and Belichick decided to move on as much as Wes did.

That those facts offend you so much that you Hate Him, a wildly emotional and irrational take to have, is quite childish. That could be where the dislike came from.

The only person on Earth that I'm close to hating is my bastard of a landlord, and he hasn't even said mean things about my favorite football team's head coach.

I really disliked the way WW handled his contract negotiations. I got some ironic satisfaction from the reports that he ended up signing for no more than he'd already been offered by the Pats, but that just made it clear he no longer wanted to work here. I wonder how much of it was jealousy fueled by his wife. I can't imagine Giselle's comments sat well, and I can see a Hooters waitress turning that into a cat fight with a super model.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I really disliked the way WW handled his contract negotiations. I got some ironic satisfaction from the reports that he ended up signing for no more than he'd already been offered by the Pats, but that just made it clear he no longer wanted to work here. I wonder how much of it was jealousy fueled by his wife. I can't imagine Giselle's comments sat well, and I can see a Hooters waitress turning that into a car fight

WW's agent completely botched the negotiations.

Needless to say wives have a huge impact on where a player signs. For example, Derrick Mason wanted to be a Pat but his wife was a Baltimore girl. That ended that.

In other sports is was a open secret that Johnny Damon's bikini clad wife and Shonda Schilling had some kind of beef. NYY money made it easy but there was a issue between the wives.

 

[n6249c]

WW's agent completely botched the negotiations.

Needless to say wives have a huge impact on where a player signs. For example, Derrick Mason wanted to be a Pat but his wife was a Baltimore girl. That ended that.

In other sports is was a open secret that Johnny Damon's bikini clad wife and Shonda Schilling had some kind of beef. NYY money made it easy but there was a issue between the wives.

yep. I figure he had both his agent and his wife constantly in his hear telling him he deserved more, he was as valuable as Brady and needed to demand the respect that he was due. Results were predictable.

 

[Deus Irae]

I really disliked the way WW handled his contract negotiations. I got some ironic satisfaction from the reports that he ended up signing for no more than he'd already been offered by the Pats, but that just made it clear he no longer wanted to work here. I wonder how much of it was jealousy fueled by his wife. I can't imagine Giselle's comments sat well, and I can see a Hooters waitress turning that into a cat fight with a super model.

You have to be mentally deranged to blame Welker for the Patriots negotiations.

 

[n6249c]

You have to be mentally deranged to blame Welker for the Patriots negotiations.

Pats negotiated with Welker the same way they do with everybody. You have to mentally deranged to not see that there was a different degree of animosity. And a player that basically cut off his nose to spite his face.

 

[RobertWeathers]

yep. I figure he had both his agent and his wife constantly in his hear telling him he deserved more, he was as valuable as Brady and needed to demand the respect that he was due. Results were predictable.

I'm unaware of an actual issue that Mrs WW had with Gisele or the Pats but you never know I guess.

 

[n6249c]

I'm unaware of an actual issue that Mrs WW had with Gisele or the Pats but you never know I guess.

I don't know, but I can't imagine that Gisele's comments about her husband didn't get noticed.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Pats negotiated with Welker the same way they do with everybody. You have to mentally deranged to not see that there was a different degree of animosity. And a player that basically cut off his nose to spite his face.

Depends on the POV. Dunn said the Pats took a hard-line non negotiable position of 2/$10m. Kraft says they had 2/16m. Unknown is the guarantees. Kraft says that they would have met the same deal as DEN if he called the Pats a day earlier before chasing Amendola.

Pats have done a bunch of deals with Dunn so it wasn't like they were dealing with Jerome Stanley.

If all is true above the agent miscalculated the market.

It's also reasonable to guess that potentially Kraft is lying and trying to save face.

 

[n6249c]

Depends on the POV. Dunn said the Pats took a hard-line non negotiable position of 2/$10m. Kraft says they had 2/16m. Unknown is the guarantees. Kraft says that they would have met the same deal as DEN if he called the Pats a day earlier before chasing Amendola.

Pats have done a bunch of deals with Dunn so it wasn't like they were dealing with Jerome Stanley.

If all is true above the agent miscalculated the market.

It's also reasonable to guess that potentially Kraft is lying and trying to save face.

Pats have played hardball in other negotiations without that poisoning the well, Wilfork for example had a tough contract negotiation but got it done and it was all settled and he played here happily afterwards. Seems to me that Welker's heart was really not in getting a deal done with the Pats, for whatever reason, so I think in the end he got what he really wanted.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

Depends on the POV. Dunn said the Pats took a hard-line non negotiable position of 2/$10m. Kraft says they had 2/16m. Unknown is the guarantees. Kraft says that they would have met the same deal as DEN if he called the Pats a day earlier before chasing Amendola.

Pats have done a bunch of deals with Dunn so it wasn't like they were dealing with Jerome Stanley.

If all is true above the agent miscalculated the market.

It's also reasonable to guess that potentially Kraft is lying and trying to save face.

Regardless of the Patriots' or Team Welker's negotiating stances (exaggerations, misrepresentations, severe hardball negotiations from both sides of the negotiation??? Nooooo ), agent's belief that Welker's money ceiling was higher proved factually incorrect. I base that on the reported offers and the one he signed.

There is nothing, zero wrong with estimating the market and playing hardball to get the most money possible. That's business 1o1/smart business. Sometimes that stance pays off and sometimes it doesn't. This stance may have ended up getting Welker 4 years and/or a higher per year. It just didn't happen.

Welker likely made the wrong choice. He was a semi featured, sometimes mentioned year 1 Bronco, closer to also ran year 2 Bronco, virtually non existent year 3. Staying with the Patriots likely means a significantly better report card than that and likely a more lucrative year 3. But again that's the nature of negotiations. You roll the dice -- sometimes it pays off and sometimes it doesn't.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Way back then I thought it in Wes' best interests to stay here for a bit less because of post football opportunities. But having heard him speak, I think perhaps not.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Yes, please.



Allegedly the same reason we lost on Matthews. Perception of greater opportunity elsewhere, even if it means going to a basement dwelling team.

yeah, I feel for the guys who are in the "good but not a star" category who have to choose between playing for a winner or making the most they can with a lousy team.

 

[Deus Irae]

Allegedly the same reason we lost on Matthews. Perception of greater opportunity elsewhere, even if it means going to a basement dwelling team.

Indeed

Team A offers a guy a one year deal and offers him 25% of the snaps for $X
Team B offers a guy a one year deal and offers him 50% of the snaps for $X+$Y


Team B is going to get that player almost every time.

 

[zydecochris]

Way back then I thought it in Wes' best interests to stay here for a bit less because of post football opportunities. But having heard him speak, I think perhaps not.

One advantage of staying here might have been that TB wouldn't have thrown him balls that laid him out quite like Manning did, and he wouldn't have taken such a beating here. However, you never really know, it can always be one freak play that ends a season (or a career). I remember that one freak injury (non-contact if I remember) in the first half of a meaningless last game of the regular season that one year where we lost him for the playoffs.

 

[AtomicDawg]

sounds like is different then actually signing.

It's officially official. Happy now?

Patriots sign TE Clay Harbor and DT Terrance Knighton