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Why should Belichick get a pass?


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I would love to hear anyone's reasoning on why the Pats had a good shot at driving 80 yards for a TD when it was pulling teeth just to score one TD on offense all game. Unless you can make that argument, it's pointless to question the choice to kick. It's like half the people here didn't get the memo on the new OT rules a few years back.


I think it's fair to question the choice. I don't think it's fair to call it crazy, stupid, ridiculous, etc...
 
Certainly NOT BB's or the rest of the coaches finest hour today. BBs decision to kick it away today in OT is not only one of the dumbest decisions that he has made....it goes down as one of the worst calls made by ANY coach that I can recall. I am thinking of Norv Turner when I see replays of Slater carrying out BBs wishes.....just absolutely mind numbing how a genius like BB could go all "Marty Schottenheimer" all of a sudden today! Anyways hopefully he got all the brain farts out of his system.....

I assume you were equally dumbfounded when the same coach did the same thing and it worked in Denver two seasons ago against Peyton Manning.

Or you don't remember that. So yeah, it's one of the worst decisions you can recall because you cannot recall a lot of decisions.
 
BB lifetime pass from me. Is he always right? No, so what. 24 players or something on IR, ease up guys . They have no business being in playoffs let alone No. 1 seed probably . And if Edelman, Amendola, hightower, vollmer Mac, Chung etc are healthy for playoffs the Pats have a better chance then anyone getting to the SB . tyvm BB and TFB
 
Gee I cant remember specifics. All I was saying is that you and Salem arent homer type posters who just blindly defend BB at every move.

If you could not see it as sort of a compliment I dont know what to tell you.

I haven't been critical of BB regarding game management decisions.

He is the best in the business.
 
Actually if you think it though. Better to take the ball against a Manning defense when our O is reasonable functionable and kicl it away to Fitzpatrick when our O sucks. But then it works and this time it does not.
 
I haven't been critical of BB regarding game management decisions.

He is the best in the business.

Maybe I should have phrased it better. You arent the type of posters who will blindly agree with every decision. That was it.
 
I would love to hear anyone's reasoning on why the Pats had a good shot at driving 80 yards for a TD when it was pulling teeth just to score one TD on offense all game. Unless you can make that argument, it's pointless to question the choice to kick. It's like half the people here didn't get the memo on the new OT rules a few years back.

They really can't make too good of an argument. They can say 'just put it in Brady's hands' and it has some force behind it. However, reality is reality in this particular game. The O was playing poorly. 1 single TD drive all game should not have left one single person here feeling good about the Patriots getting the ball at the 20 and driving 80 yards.
On the flip side the D had allowed only 2 TD drives all game. Considering that it makes sense to believe: Let the D get the stop, maybe the Patriots get the ball at the 30 or better, they get 40 yards, they kick the game winning FG. It just didn't work out that way based, IMHO, on our starting safeties being out, Butler's mistake hurt quite a bit, and give credit to the Jets. Except for the Fitz fumble-TD the Jets played pretty soundly/didn't aid the Patriots cause.

Where I disagree with BB is the end of the first half. I understand his thinking, however, the D usually plays soft up front to make sure they don't give up the big play. I feel like (much like end of the game TD drive) the 2 minute offense dinking and dunking was a fair shot at 3 points.
 
Actually if you think it though. Better to take the ball against a Manning defense when our O is reasonable functionable and kicl it away to Fitzpatrick when our O sucks. But then it works and this time it does not.
The thing is, it didn't even really work against the Donks, since they were about to get the ball for a second time with a sudden death opportunity. Then the returner takes the punt off his face and Belichick is a genius for it? People only criticize decisions that lead to losses.
 
So often the outcome makes the decision. NE has been on the good side of so many good decisions. I stopped quibling when it doesn't go right.
 
Your curt, dismissive responses don't lead to good discussions, so ya, let's not go down it

My responses often lead to excellent discussions. The problem is that when you go silly, you go full tilt on it. The notion that the New England sports fan base, including this forum, only questions moves that lead to losses is one of the more absurd claims that will ever be made here.

This is the land of Michael Felger, for crying out loud.
 
My responses often lead to excellent discussions. The problem is that when you go silly, you go full tilt on it. The notion that the New England sports fan base, including this forum, only questions moves that lead to losses is one of the more absurd claims that will ever be made here.

This is the land of Michael Felger, for crying out loud.
You are a smart and solid member here, but your curt responses lead nowhere. If you don't want to discuss something, just scroll past it. No need to battle over a generalization that's on the periphery of the topic.
 
You are a smart and solid member here, but your curt responses lead nowhere. If you don't want to discuss something, just scroll past it. No need to battle over a generalization that's on the periphery of the topic.

You're kidding, right?

After you brought this silliness:

The thing is, it didn't even really work against the Donks, since they were about to get the ball for a second time with a sudden death opportunity. Then the returner takes the punt off his face and Belichick is a genius for it? People only criticize decisions that lead to losses.

to the table, you're on me for my response?

You're demonstrating my point about what you do when you go silly.
 
  1. What was the point of wasting a timeout at the end of regulation time, when the clock was already stopped.
  2. Why did he go for a blocked punt formation and not keep a punt returner? It's hard to block a punt when the blockers already know it. With a good return and a timeout we could have atleast tried a 50 yard FG with the best kicker in the game.
  3. Why did he chose to kick the ball in OT? His answer is "It's best for the team". WTF does that mean? It clearly isn't. The Pats couldn't stop the Jets for most of the game and he suddenly realized he could stop them? You get the ball and try to score. The defense then knows what it needs to do.
  4. Why was there no urgency at the end of the half when we had over a minute left? I understand that we were banged up, but with this banged up team we wouldn't have scored at the start of the 2nd half either. What's the point of playing if you are not confident in your team. Just take out Brady, Gronk and all the starters and put in the 2nd stringers.
I find it irritating that Bill never (or atleast I've never heard him say) says "I made a mistake with that call". It's always "What's best for the team", when clearly it's not the case in some situations. I'm no coach and I'm criticizing a 6 time SB champion coach, but just because he has won 6 superbowls doesn't mean that every decision he makes is the right one.

\end rant

1. Because timeouts are not only used to stop the clock. I don't know why people always forget that. It could be to fix a mistake before it happens, or make a substitution, or change a play based on what they see on the field. So what if the clock is stopped? If you see something wrong and want to take another timeout, so be it.

Taking a timeout on a dead ball is not automatically a poor coaching decision. Only Madden players think like that.

2. To get into that range, we'd probably need a 40+ yard return. There have only been about 20 of them so far this season combined. True, that is more than the 10 punt blocks, but remember, the majority of punts are set up for returns, not punt blocks. The actual success of punt blocks is something that is elusive to find in numbers, but it's not by chance BB went for it there.

3. I didn't like the call either. But FWIW, if they don't call PI on Butler on 3rd down, we get the ball back around our 30 with a chance to win the game with a FG. The stats support getting the ball first. The receiving team wins 54% of the time in some mathematical models. For those of you who don't believe in that ****, it's also worth noting that since 2012, the receiving team has won 33 games, the kicking team has won 32 games (excluding ties).

Then again, if you're upset about BB kicking off, I am sure I can find another thread from you complaining about the same thing when he did the exact same thing against Denver two years ago. Except we won.

4. I actually share this frustration. But the answer is pretty obvious. BB does not trust this offense. He's been pretty consistent throughout the season as injuries have mounted. Same thing happened in Denver with 2 minutes to go and all 3 timeouts. We can go back and forth as to whether he should be more aggressive in this situation or not, but the answer is clear that there's a lack of trust in the O right now, and my guess would be in the OL holding up and not causing a free rusher to get a sack fumble.

As for BB and whether he says it's a mistake or not, who gives a ****?

BB always blames himself at the end of every loss regardless. It wasn't good enough, not the players, not the coaches, not anyone.

Whether he singles himself out or any individual decision is fodder for fans and the media to masturbate over while assigning blame. What if Slater ****ed up? What good does it do the team to point that out? What if BB regrets a call? What good does that do to the team to tell the media?

It does absolutely nothing good for the team to talk specifics. That's what the fans and media want to hear, but there's no real benefit to the team, so he doesn't do it. If you don't like it, too bad. I prefer he do what is best for the team, even if it leaves me to question a lot of stuff. They will ignore the noise, as they should.
 
I'm mostly a BB homer. I admit it. No doubt, obviously, there are lots of 'us' on this board. But for in season decisions that don't work out you will find plenty of posters like me stating opposition to a BB call. It doesn't mean I think BB is now an idiot just as when he is right it doesn't mean I think he is incapable of error.

If you believe BB made an error in judgment then make your case. It was better for Brady to get the ball at the 20 in OT because ________. (Possible answers: (a) always side with giving Brady the ball. (b) Always better to get the first shot at ending it with a TD. (c) _______). But just stop with the nonsense of 'BB never makes mistakes to people on this board' and 'boohoo BB is never held accountable'. It's mostly a bunch of nonsense. While I'm not about to claim this board is the Algonquin Roundtable (you will see plenty of terse homer views), all in all for the lunacy that is most Internet based chat boards you hear some pretty decent and varying thoughts on this board**. And some of these views are not afraid to question BB even from posters that think BB is the GOAT coach (as I do).
**gameday thread exception
 
Which is fine. Just don't select one OPI play on Gronk or another Patriot that calls back a big gain/score based on 'letting it go' every other play. Either call some/most of them or call none of them. It is otherwise a specific competitive advantage being given to one team....

Some crews call games closer than others. That's always been true. And Thompkins pick wasn't as blatant. Still, I see your point.
 
BB has said they needed better coaching many times.

He has also stated 'nobody makes as many mistakes as I do'(paraphrasing). It probably is in part a platitude, however, there is little doubt in my mind he'll second guess his decisions/identifies when he made a mistake. IMHO you cannot come from a so-so stint as a HC to then be a successful HC over a 15 year span without taking time to look inward at what you do, how you think, and try to identify mistakes you made.
 
Also something to consider before saying it's a no-brainer to receive the ball in OT, here's the record of the receiving team in OT in the regular season and playoffs since the OT rules in the regular season were changed in 2012:

TD score on first drive: 12-66 (18.2%)
Score on first drive: 23-66 (34.8%)
Win: 34-66 (51.5%)

In addition to that we have three ties and another game (the Denver-Baltimore one in 2012 that went into double OT). If you count those four for the sake of winning in OT the record for the receiving team worsens to:

TD score on first drive: 12-70 (17.1%)
Score on first drive: 25-70 (35.7%)
Win: 34-70 (48.6%)

You can certainly make the argument that even in normal conditions the advantages offered by receiving the ball is so big that you have to take the ball, ignoring possible tactical considerations in respect to your offensive/defensive performance in the four quarters before.
 
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