Maybe we already have a solid WR corps?

[Hercules Rockefeller]

2011:

Welker
Chad Johnson
Deion Branch
Edelman
Underwood


2013 (to date):
The porcelain Italian (I know, but I'm more amused by it this way)
Jones
Jenkins

As of right now, 2011, which was flat-out not good enough once we saw what Johnson was not bringing to the teable, is the superior group, by about a country mile. If the current group isn't a disaster, it can see disaster from where it's standing, and it's certainly got the potential to become one.

It's early and the group is obviously not complete, but let's not pretend it's anything but what it is.

I know you are responding to the OP, but you end up making the point that I feel is most important with the bolded part.

Of the 2011 group that you named, only 3 of those guys were on the roster as of 3/30. That's why I am not as worried about the position---there are a lot of opportunities to add players before September.

Completely agree that right now, on paper, it is a weak group, but the fact is that it does not matter at all...there are going to be additions to this group before the season starts. When all is said and done, I am extremely confident that the 2013 team will have a better WR group than the 2011 one.

 

[mgteich]

In a word, "NO".

You would line up Amendola and Molasses Mike and think that we have a solid wide receiver corp? Jenkins is not likely to even beat out Ebert for a roster spot. Even under your scenario, where is the "depth". This would be the worst WR corps of any of the playoff teams. BTW, imagine what happens when Amendola is out for a game or two.

It is good that we have many months in which to acquire wide receivers.

 

[supafly]

Alright, here's where my own argument come out.

I'm thinking that the Patriots aren't in a bad position just now, vis-a-vis the wide receiver corps/situation. Considering the personnel on hand, they could do a lot without adding anyone else.

Why do I say this? Because I believe that Belichick plans to use both WR's and his TE's in the same role, relegating their titles to administrative purposes.

At present, NE could line up Gronkowski and Hernandez, Danny Amendola and Jenkins, plus put Ridley in the back field. Which of those threats gets the double coverage?

Hernandez is tall and fast, with the ability to knock a defender out of the way. Perhaps he's the true speedy WR we've been looking for. Ah, but then there's Gronkowski who excells at TE, but also has the speed on a post as well as the ability to stretch and pluck it away.

Amendola? He's an excellent slot receiver. A known quantity. If he gets in synch with TFB, watch out. No one will miss WWW. Which brings us to Jenkins. Everyone is complaining that's he's a JAG. Perhaps he is. Perhaps he hasn't been able to get into synch with a QB or playbook? Who knows. What his stats DO tell us, however, is that when he's in Man to Man, he has some issues. Those issues aren't a problem with him in Zone coverage, however.

So my point is that our offense might well eveolve and play pretty doggone good with those we have to hand, not to mention potentially regaining Edelman.

Who gets the double team? Hernandez? Gronk? Amendola? Jenkins? It's likely that teams end up playing zone, and when they do, Jenkin's abilities are upgraded. Zone is like a force multiplier with these guys.

I'm not saying that this is how things will play out, but at present, the Patriots have 3 tall targets for TFB, and a fine slot receiver and aa couple decent RB's to run a screen. Could we use another, better, pure WR? Sure. So can every single team. But as it stands, after a couple nights thoughts, I'm not near as concerned as I was earlier this week.

Those are my thoughts, anyway. I welcome yours.

I agree with you in terms of the WR depth being able to be improved upon, and that 2/3 of the players we have now which consist of Amendola and ONE of Jones/Jenkins should be fine to take up 2 spots.

Where I don't agree, and where I think you may have lost some people is the suggestion that we'd be okay at the present moment...

I am not nearly as worried about the WR position as others, but we need to add at least one/two draft picks and also bring in a handful of other players to battle it out. Even then the majority of us likely won't be too optimistic, but it will most likely be just fine to get the job done.

Llyod had somewhere near a 54% catch rate last year (IIRC). Our replacement likely won't see as many actual targets due to the hopeful return to health of the TE's, but we should be able to see a replacement put up roughly the same catch rate and close to 60-65 catches in my opinion.

We've got to remember who's slinging the ball back there. Brady connected with Caldwell for 61 catches in a year where the entire depth sucked and teams had to worry about no one at all. If he can do that with Caldwell, then the replacement should be able to catch 60-65 balls WITH the exceptional talent surrounding him of Gronk, Hernandez, and even Amendola.

 

[Deus Irae]

...Of the 2011 group that you named, only 3 of those guys were on the roster as of 3/30. That's why I am not as worried about the position---there are a lot of opportunities to add players before September.

Actually, this would be a mark against this year's final makeup, if you think about it. 2011 was lousy, and they didn't have their group in place by now, so it's not just early misses, but late failures.

Completely agree that right now, on paper, it is a weak group, but the fact is that it does not matter at all...there are going to be additions to this group before the season starts. When all is said and done, I am extremely confident that the 2013 team will have a better WR group than the 2011 one.

I hope you're right.

 

[Metaphors]

The missing aspect is the ability to force attention outside the numbers and make the defense pay when they collapse inside. DA is better than Welker when working outside so that is a net plus. The problem with Lloyd was that he was always single covered. His stats were fine but he should have been constantly open and/or had massive YAC yards.

Given the WR depth in the draft, I would expect the Pats to look there. Sanders would be a fine addition and a 3rd is not too high a price. But I don't think that changes the dynamic too much...they would still need a guy Brady could consistently throw to until the defense widened out to compensate.

 

[grux]

2011:

Welker
Chad Johnson
Deion Branch
Edelman
Underwood


2013 (to date):
The porcelain Italian (I know, but I'm more amused by it this way)
Jones
Jenkins

As of right now, 2011, which was flat-out not good enough once we saw what Johnson was not bringing to the teable, is the superior group, by about a country mile. If the current group isn't a disaster, it can see disaster from where it's standing, and it's certainly got the potential to become one.

It's early and the group is obviously not complete, but let's not pretend it's anything but what it is.

The 2011 line up was good enough to get to the super bowl. That wasn't to bad.

 

[Frezo]

Hey Gwedd, the WRs will be fine as long as we have Evan Williams.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

This is way off base. The Patriots absolutely need a deep threat to force the safeties to play deep. Last year they did not have this and the result were pretty obvious against the Raven in the playoffs; the Ravens (like a lot of other teams) laughed at the Patriots WRs and clogged the intermediate / center of the field leaving the Patriots slow-footed WRs to be covered one-on-one. The first team to expose the Patriots joke at WR was Seattle but I saw it in pre-season; Lloyd could be covered in single coverage.

A deep threat is far and away the Patriots biggest hole and you can expect (shutter) them to target it in the draft...ugh.

 

[Tunescribe]

The question is about the WR core. People using the TEs and RBs are just muddling the issue. The WR core isn't solid. It's lousy. It has no OWR1 or OWR2.

Not "core." That has to do with apples. It's corps.

 

[crowell33]

What you see is what you get.

This may be the year that a WR is not drafted in the entire first round. Patterson with his one year of division one ball, and 46 catch, 778 yard season, is currently ranked as the drafts best receiver. Maybe you prefer Tavon Austin, the tiny 5'8", 173 pound slot receiver.

Unrestricted free agency? By some estimates, Edelman is the top remaining WR. Lloyd appears finished with his nearly NFL low 2.4 YAC.

Restricted FA? There is always E. Sanders with his career averages of 30 catches, 420 yards. Yes I know, last year's 1 TD, 598 yards was his best ever so maybe he is peaking. Lets not forget his career long reception is 37 yards.

Personally I think the Pats, with Gronk, Hernandez, Ballard, Amendola, Vereen, all playing with a HOF QB behind the best Oline in the NFL, already have a fantastic passing attack. But a #1 or #2 receiver is not walking through that door.

Yes, I know, we have months to find new receivers. That's great, you can have months in the desert looking for an Olympic swimming pool but you won't have much luck. ( unless of course your in Vegas ).

 

[Deus Irae]

Not "core." That has to do with apples. It's corps.

'Core' was what was written by the earlier poster, and can apply if you're referring to the heart/main of the WRs. Corpse, on the other hand....

 

[JoeSixPat]

The question is about the WR core. People using the TEs and RBs are just muddling the issue. The WR core isn't solid. It's lousy. It has no OWR1 or OWR2.

I've been calling for a deep threat since Moss turned bad (actually even before as I felt the 2007 receiving corps was overly focused on Welker and Moss to their strategic detriment) so I'm not satisfied with the lack of a #1 WR (positionally - not in terms of catches)

But Belichick is exactly the type of coach to take advantage of those closed minded enough not to gameplan them using Hernandez as a WR.

Hopefully other coaches take a similar view as yours - because I think Belichick and McDaniels' use of a three TE set could present some major matchup problems for opponents stuck on positional labels.

We need to see the product on the field of course - but on paper the slot and middle is well covered no matter what label you want to put on recievers.

 

[ausbacker]

The Porcelain Italian isn't funny Deus and it continues to make you look like petty sulking over Welker to the Broncos.

In regards to the OP, solid no but a reasonable starting point yes. There's much work to be done. Luckily, there's still Free Agency, the NFL Draft, trades and UDFA pools to improve the position.

 

[TomPatriot]

I support what they did and get the logic, but right now the wide receivers are worse. If DA is healthy and he clicks with Brady and the Pats sign or draft a WR who turns into a stud X or some roster sleeper or signee surprises, maybe the WRs are better. That's a lot of ifs.

As for a surprise we have all forgotten Andre Holmes, signed to the PC on 1/8. He's 6'4" 220 and runs a 4.5 (4.45 on his Pro Day in 2011). D2 guy who played only one year in HS. I wonder . . . ok, more like I hope . . .

 

[Deus Irae]

I've been calling for a deep threat since Moss turned bad (actually even before as I felt the 2007 receiving corps was overly focused on Welker and Moss to their strategic detriment) so I'm not satisfied with the lack of a #1 WR (positionally - not in terms of catches)

But Belichick is exactly the type of coach to take advantage of those closed minded enough not to gameplan them using Hernandez as a WR.

Hopefully other coaches take a similar view as yours - because I think Belichick and McDaniels' use of a three TE set could present some major matchup problems for opponents stuck on positional labels.

We need to see the product on the field of course - but on paper the slot and middle is well covered no matter what label you want to put on recievers.

This is about the WR corps. Hernandez is a TE, until/unless they change his designation.

 

[Deus Irae]

The Porcelain Italian isn't funny Deus and it continues to make you look like petty sulking over Welker to the Broncos.

Yes, it is, and it is no more about sulking over Welker than is I.R. Dowling.


Also, should the starting 5 across ever end up as

Gronk
Hernandez
Amendola
Jones
Edelman

I'll find "The Glass Menagerie" to be funny and appropriate there.

 

[ausbacker]

Yes, it is, and it is no more about sulking over Welker than is I.R. Dowling.


Also, should the starting 5 across ever end up as

Gronk
Hernandez
Amendola
Jones
Edelman

I'll find "The Glass Menagerie" to be funny and appropriate there.

I'm sure you'd enjoy the majority of Patsfans calling you the annoying prick who never thinks he's wrong even when presented with an argument that disproves his position. It's not funny, nor is I.R. Dowling.

In regards to the WR position, the composition of the unit is nowhere near complete nor is it solid. Amendola is a nice signing and I have faith he will perform and stay injury free for the Patriots. There are too many question marks in regards to Jones and Jenkins. Either way, it is my hope that come September, they are further down the depth chart than closer to WR1.

And please, let's not joke about injuries. They've already played a major part in costing the Patriots another two Superbowl victories. Surely it's our time for a better run? Surely.

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm sure you'd enjoy the majority of Patsfans calling you the annoying prick who never thinks he's wrong even when presented with an argument that disproves his position.

I actually laugh at that stuff, since it's entirely a matter of perception as opposed to being reality.

It's not funny, nor is I.R. Dowling.

Your individual lack of appreciation notwithstanding, it's funny to many of us.

And please, let's not joke about injuries. They've already played a major part in costing the Patriots another two Superbowl victories. Surely it's our time for a better run? Surely.

If you don't want people joking about the injuries you might want to tell the front office to keep the guys who stay healthy and stop bringing in the china dolls and/or building around them. While I appreciate that luck plays a large part in who gets the injuries, and I wish none of the players ever got hurt, the reality is that injuries happen, and they are part of a player's history moving forward.

 

[ausbacker]

I actually laugh at that stuff.

Your individual lack of appreciation notwithstanding, it's funny to many of us.

I laugh at a great many things. Injuries and their associated spin off jokes isn't one of them (even to a Jets player).

If you don't want people joking about the injuries you might want to tell the front office to keep the guys who stay healthy and stop bringing in the china dolls and/or building around them.

You can't plan for freak injuries Deus, no more than you can plan for an opposition player diving helmet first at your Quarterback's knees.

 

[mgteich]

We have swapped out slot receivers. We have no #1 or #2 outside WR. Jones is fine as a competitor with Ebert and others for the #4 backup spot. The fact that we can line up two top TE's with our nonexistent wideouts is somewhat irrelevant.

We need to be able to run 3 WR sets with 3 real WR's. Obviously 4 WR sets can use a RB or TE as a wideout. I know that our TE's and WR's never get injured, but we should have a #4/#5 WR who is capable of backing up the others, hopefully both in the slot and outside.