Felger and Reiss go at it over Welker

[PATSNUTme]

Felger and Moron would not have any of it. They just wanted to keep on with their rant on how the Patriots mistreated Welker.

Reiss stuck the dagger into Felger when he told him "that's what reporters do", meaning getting all the facts.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Bottom line, what happened was sad and unfortunate, but on the plus side, both sides will do well without the other. I wish him well in Denver, except that week in November when he comes to Foxboro. On that night I'll wish him just good health

What also leads credence to your synopsis is that isn't that exactly what Bob Kraft has been saying ... that it takes 2 intelligent sides? Kraft told us the bad way it would happen before it actually did.

 

[Hardboiled]

So Welker, gauging the market on his own, even though he had an agent, decided to leave his home, Brady, his friends etc to get basically the same money somewhere else.

What's interesting about your point is the possible case that when WW came back at the NEP with the DEN offer -the NEP had already moved on and wouldn't have accepted even a 2/10 deal. There was no where for WW to go except DEN.

 

[grux]

I haven't heard many people talk about the third offer from supposedly the Tennessee Titans. From what I read the offer was better than NE and Denver. I wonder if Welker's agent took the Titans offer back to NE and asked them to match? NE wasn't willing to match the offer and moved on to DA. Either way Welker and his agent didn't do a good job of estimating his value on the open market.

 

[IcyPatriot]

I haven't heard many people talk about the third offer from supposedly the Tennessee Titans. From what I read the offer was better than NE and Denver. I wonder if Welker's agent took the Titans offer back to NE and asked them to match? NE wasn't willing to match the offer and moved on to DA. Either way Welker and his agent didn't do a good job of estimating his value on the open market.

Or Belichick knew the offer was useless for Welker ... Welker wanted money and the right fit both.

 

[Froob]

Well done Reiss. Felger is a douche and Mazz is a cynical *******.

 

[Froob]

Anyone want to dispute that this is an agent screwing his client?

By rolling the dice and being wrong, Welker ends up with no more money, a moving van, left on his doorstep with a suitcase while the agent blows smoke up the ass of some other naive would be superstar.

To be fair, did anyone think Welker was only going to get 6 mill a year?

 

[patfanken]

To be fair, did anyone think Welker was only going to get 6 mill a year?

I've been making that point now for 2 days. Ivan would have be apoplectic if anyone ever even suggested that Welker take a 2 year $12MM deal during all the Welker threads the last 2 month. He would have called it "past insulting". But Ivan wasn't alone. I don't think there was a poster here that thought $6MM/yr on a short term deal was Welker's market. About the only ones who actually guaged it correctly were the Pats

BTW - based on what Reiss reported the Pats deal was really virtually the same as Denver's from the get go, give that at least $2MM of the $6MM in incentives were considered readily obtainable.

The BOTTOM LINE here is that, throughout the entire 2 year process, all the offers the Pats made and were rejected were above market deals, Welker got paid well over market for his services in 2012, and what the Pats offered for 2013 and beyond was right as good as he could get.

The Pats treated him well while he was here. Negotiated more fairly throughout this process, and never tried to make him take a less than market deal.

Yet despite this reality, we will spend the next season constantly being told that the mean and arrogant Patriots tried to short change poor Wes who did nothing but do his job well. And then got just what they deserved when he went to Denver.

 

[Froob]

I'm still kinda confused, based on Reiss' explanation, if the New England deal was basically the same, why didn't he take it? Was it because Denver's was more of a sure thing as in he didn't have to hit incentives?

 

[Jackson 2]

I'm still kinda confused, based on Reiss' explanation, if the New England deal was basically the same, why didn't he take it? Was it because Denver's was more of a sure thing as in he didn't have to hit incentives?

Because he didn't want to be here anymore. Simple as that.

 

[patfanken]

I'm still kinda confused, based on Reiss' explanation, if the New England deal was basically the same, why didn't he take it? Was it because Denver's was more of a sure thing as in he didn't have to hit incentives?

He didn't because he thought once he got to FA, the offers would be significantly higher AND longer. It wasn't until he got there that he found that the Pats were right.

My question is why didn't Welker have a better idea what the real market was going to be during the 3 day "legal tampering" period. He should have had a better feel for what he wanted and what was out there. That was another failure of the agents, imo.

 

[hwc]

I'm still kinda confused, based on Reiss' explanation, if the New England deal was basically the same, why didn't he take it? Was it because Denver's was more of a sure thing as in he didn't have to hit incentives?

Two reasons:

1) Market priced offers from the Pats were "insulting".

2) By the time he figured out what his true market price was (the Denver offer), he had already forced the Pats to move on to another option. Once he went to free agency with an $8 million a year demand, the Pats had no choice but to assume he was gone and jump on Plan B.

In retrospect (and we should have learned from Viniateri), Welker was already gone the minute he forced the Pats to franchise tag him last year.-

 

[JMC00]

Yet despite this reality, we will spend the next season constantly being told that the mean and arrogant Patriots tried to short change poor Wes who did nothing but do his job well. And then got just what they deserved when he went to Denver.

Well Felger and Mazz think Welker was under paid the 6 years he was here. Yet the Patriots were the ones that went out on somewhat of a limb by trading a 2nd & 7th round pick and giving him a 5 year for $21 million deal after two decent seasons in Miami.

If I cared enough I would have called them and asked them how was he under paid when Patriots basically paid Welker his market value over the 6 years. $30 million over 6 years.

You'll never hear these guys commend that Patriots for giving out contracts like they did for Mankins, Wilfork, Gronk, Hernandez, Mayo, etc.

Actually if I recall when the Pats franchised Welker, Felger made a snide comment of how Mayo got a nice 5 year 50 million dollar contract extension because he's Bill's guy but they'll fight Welker all the way because they are hung up on value so they won't pay a couple million more a season than he might be worth.

The thing is Felger and Mazz just look dumb with their view on this whole thing because the Pats nailed Welker's market value and Reiss made them look like complete idiots as the Patriots were told 3/$24mil, Welker went and checked the market and got two offers for 2 years, Tenn $7.5mil per and Den $6mil per.

And Denver's isn't even 2 years/$12 mill guaranteed, it's 1 year $6 million guaranteed. Which hurts their opinion on this even more.

They just hate that the Patriots nailed his market and every time the Pats gave him an offer it was either equal market or above market value and that Welker and his agent over estimated his worth. It burns Felger and Mazz that the Patriots had been dead on with Welker's since they started negotiating back in 2011. So they will just continue to bash the Patriots about going with Amendola and not overpaying because in their mind Welker deserved to be overpaid as he was underpaid from '07-'11.

 

[Reckedtrek]

Heard today, on the same Felger and Mazz show:

"If it takes giving Wes a million or two more to lock him in, just do it. If you really want the player don't let money stand in the way."

and

"Wow. Arrington got 4 years, $4 million per season? The Pats really overpaid."

Two thoughts:
1- I'd love to watch these guys run an NFL team... into the ground.
2- Of the above two statements, how can you crucify the Pats one minute for not overpaying, then mock them for... overpaying? The answer is- whichever argument allows you to keep bashing the team at the given moment.

I love how they call their Friday show "Agenda Free"... have these two EVER done anything Patriots related that did not have an agenda, hidden or otherwise?

 

[JMC00]

Yet despite this reality, we will spend the next season constantly being told that the mean and arrogant Patriots tried to short change poor Wes who did nothing but do his job well. And then got just what they deserved when he went to Denver.

It really sucks for Amendola. Dude is gonna be under such a microscope.

 

[JMC00]

Heard today, on the same Felger and Mazz show:

"If it takes giving Wes a million or two more to lock him in, just do it. If you really want the player don't let money stand in the way."

and

"Wow. Arrington got 4 years, $4 million per season? The Pats really overpaid."

Two thoughts:
1- I'd love to watch these guys run an NFL team... into the ground.
2- Of the above two statements, how can you crucify the Pats one minute for not overpaying, then mock them for... overpaying? The answer is- whichever argument allows you to keep bashing the team at the given moment.

Well see that's where Felger and Mazz are idiots. Arrington got $8.5 million guaranteed which means it could be $2mil the first year, $3mil the second year, $3.5mil the third year and bump up to $7.5mil the fourth year which the Pats could get out of by cutting him or re-negotiating.

Where as Wes was looking for $24 million all guaranteed over 3 years from the Patriots.

Felger's little line is the cap is crap. He pumped the Jets tires up about how they made moves yet look at them now.

 

[voluntarysaftey]

Random question:
If the Patriots believed he was worth 2/10 after he had a year in which he played as well as could be hoped for and one in which they decided to pay him 9.5m.

So why not let him hit free agency last year, offer 3 / 18, and allowed him to shop around and either ended up cutting him (since 9.5 is more than they value a slot) or have had him sign at a decent rate (since 6 is what they value a slot)

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Random question:
If the Patriots believed he was worth 2/10 after he had a year in which he played as well as could be hoped for and one in which they decided to pay him 9.5m.

So why not let him hit free agency last year, offer 3 / 18, and allowed him to shop around and either ended up cutting him (since 9.5 is more than they value a slot) or have had him sign at a decent rate (since 6 is what they value a slot)

Because they use the franchise tag to buy more time to negotiate a deal, they thought they would work out a more reasonable deal before the season but apparently Welker and his agents over rated the market and didnt get a dose of reality until this week. They wanted him last year and they wanted him this year. Of course you wont hear any of this if you listen to the Felgah and Doofus show because it doesnt fit their agenda.

 

[JMC00]

And adding to that it has come out that the Patriots and Welker were a million dollars apart last summer.

But what felger and mazz will argue and complain about is how Bill just couldn't agree to a million more because in Felger's words "they wanted Welker on his knees"

Yet what they won't do is go on a spiel about how Welker maybe should have agreed to the Patriots terms last summer. Because their agenda is just to attack Bill and Kraft when it comes these things, but mostly Bill.

Welker tweeted "Leap of Faith" when he signed the franchise tender. Yet the the Pats were taking the same leap of faith by paying 3.5 million dollars more than his value. Which gave Welker is biggest pay year he will ever get in his career.

In hindsight maybe the Patriots should have let Welker go and been aggressive for Vincent Jackson. Who knows maybe he would have taken a slightly lesser deal.

 

[Coach42]

Reiss takes Felger to task...

What also leads credence to your synopsis is that isn't that exactly what Bob Kraft has been saying ... that it takes 2 intelligent sides? Kraft told us the bad way it would happen before it actually did.

Nailed it.